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Diesel on the bucket list, did I miss the boat?

ssteve

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Its not reliable stock so how do you figure it will take boost reliably? By the time you make it reliable with a super charger you could have just put a v8 in it.

Thanks for the feedback everyone! At the end of the day I just couldn't stomach paying a premium for an 18G tank, reduced towing capacity and near zero modification support. Indeed the Pentastar has been thrown in just about everything over the years but it will also reliably take a blower. That motor's ubiquity also means a forged short-block can be had for less than the premium diesel upgrade. Carillo & Diamond make internals for it and regardless if I were to go beyond slapping an S/C on it, just knowing the support is there is huge for me.

I came into this thinking, THIS time I'm going to finally get a diesel and avoid the remorse I've felt back way back when after not opting for a diesel. Based on your feedback and additional research, I've realized that I'd absolutely regret the diesel. My stomach is already turning at the thought of just how close I was to pulling the trigger on it.

Magnuson's new JT supercharger can be had for 10% off, putting install & tuning right at 6k.
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ssteve

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I'm spending $3,536 to drop from 285 HP down to 260 HP... but more importantly to increase from 260 LB-FT of torque to 442 LB-FT of torque. Gaining 180 LB-FT of torque, a 70% increase, for $3,563 isn't too bad. I'm spending $18.74 for each LB-FT of torque of increase. How do I figure out my cost? I'm getting an automatic either way, and those transmissions are the same cost. Invoice on the diesel is $3600. I'm paying 8% below that, plus my sales tax, puts me at $3,563.

When you drive a diesel Gladiator, if nobody told you what is different from the Stock 3.6L, your seat of the pants dyno would tell you that you have a lot more HP than the stock 3.6L..., not a loss of 25 HP. But it's not the HP that makes you feel like you are accelerating better, it's the torque.

Can you get close to 442 LB-FT of torque with a supercharged 3.6L? I'm not sure, but if it cost $6K + premium fuel, the larger fuel tank will be needed to get between gas stations. The gas engine will be screaming at 4000 to 5000 RPM as its pulling a heavy load. The diesel will be quiet, running at low RPMs.
Add to that the diesel has a longer factory warranty that will be maintained. People act like the minivan motor is a toyota 22r. Its not reliable as it is so why not at least get a motor that's got a longer warranty, makes a significant amount more power and gets better fuel economy? If most people drove both side by side they would see just how pitiful the 3.6 is. Add larger tires and its a no brainer.
 

Oilburner

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OP might want to have conversations with people who own supercharged 3.6’s.
 
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staying_tuned

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Add to that the diesel has a longer factory warranty that will be maintained. People act like the minivan motor is a toyota 22r. Its not reliable as it is so why not at least get a motor that's got a longer warranty, makes a significant amount more power and gets better fuel economy? If most people drove both side by side they would see just how pitiful the 3.6 is. Add larger tires and its a no brainer.
I had no issues with either of our 3.6 motors. The last was our 2016 JKU Rubi. I assumed they've only built upon the great reliability we experienced, of course I could be wrong, ours were quite bullet-proof. It was a dog though and I would have gone F/I with it had we not taken a hiatus from Jeep for a 4Runner (also a dog but a fun break).

@Oilburner - I've spoken to many on the JK/JKU side and ridden in a few. My ignorance on the diesel side, which led to my original questions regarding the modification on this platform, seems to have plucked a string on what appears to be a heated this vs. that debate.

If I were a diesel owner and someone asked me today, if the good old days of easily & reliably doubling your torque while adding 30%-ish horsepower are gone, and they were, it would piss me off unless I hadn't ever experienced those days and truly purchased my modern diesel to more efficiently tow loads. The thing is that hasn't happened. Why?

The feedback from those who have experienced modding diesel's a decade or more ago is (unanimously) to avoid new diesels. The feedback from those who haven't, and purchased their modern diesel is, it's fantastic.

I get where you're coming from. I'm not an internet warrior.

Thanks again for the feedback ya'll!
 

Nitroexpress

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My own experiences with tuning older diesels was simply to make them produce the power that I needed for towing. Now that power is available in stock form, with a factory warranty and it satisfies my needs. Again, this was with 1 ton trucks, not cars or small pickups. But to answer your original question, It doesn't seem like those days are over. You can still delete emissions controls and tune up the Tq and Hp, although it's probably waning by way of laws and the OEM locking down or making programming difficult.
 

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JerseyMike

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I have to admit that the 3.6 to me is a great motor, fairly simple, tons of them out there (it has been in wrangler since 2012 and GC's from I think 2014). seem to be very reliable from having owned a few, easy to maintain (easiest oil change I have ever done). As to power/performance maybe I am getting old but this feels like a rocket ship compared to old jeeps I have owned, even turning 35s with 3.73 it is tolerable (although I plan to re-gear).

I would love a diesel and seems like many do like it, I just found a perfectly optioned gas model and couldn't justify diesel with a short commute that I have.
 

Nitroexpress

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I was curious what the Magnuson Supercharged 3.6l gets you and found:
440 HP and 380 TQ
Vs OEM Ecodiesel:
260 HP and 442 TQ
 
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Schreconjeep

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Adding my $.02

I own a 2021 JTR EcoDiesel on 37s. I just got back from pulling my 4000lb camper, family and lots of wheeling equipment into the PA mountains to AOAA for a weekend of camping and wheeling.
I drive between 65-70 when pulling a trailer and got 13mpg at ~2000RPMs.
At only one point on a 15mph switchback steep ass hairpin turn did I think it held the taller gear too long. Otherwise I it pulled great. I would consider a GDE tune when they come out because I know this engine has a TON more power in it.

I'm getting 20+mpg @ 1500rpms with HEAVY 37s without the camper. Offroad, it crawls over obstacles without having to rev the engine and lurch over things. Controlled and powerful.

I know everyone wants to do mpg calculations and figure out payoff of the diesel upgrade but that is nearly irrelevant for me and most Jeep owners. We pay thousands for bigger tires and cool toys and stuff we barely use so its all about smiles per mile and the diesel wins in that category hands down. Add to that not having the engine screaming to pull my camper gives me great peace of mind. I also plan to keep this rig for 20+ years and the diesel suits my uses and expectations and hopefully will still have a good bit more life expectancy (RPMs age engines not miles).

Just sent GDE an email to get an update.
 

BEERviper

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I own a 2021 JTR EcoDiesel on 37s. I just got back from pulling my 4000lb camper, family and lots of wheeling equipment into the PA mountains to AOAA for a weekend of camping and wheeling.
I drive between 65-70 when pulling a trailer and got 13mpg at ~2000RPMs.
At only one point on a 15mph switchback steep ass hairpin turn did I think it held the taller gear too long. Otherwise I it pulled great. I would consider a GDE tune when they come out because I know this engine has a TON more power in it.

I'm getting 20+mpg @ 1500rpms with HEAVY 37s without the camper. Offroad, it crawls over obstacles without having to rev the engine and lurch over things. Controlled and powerful.
Sam I love hearing stories like this! I bought my Diesel JT specifically for what you did, pull my ~3,500lb camper which my JKU couldn't due (legally nor safely). I have less than 500 miles on my Sport S Diesel but I can tell you the smiles per mile are very high!

As soon as the diesel 2" Mopar lift arrives I will also be running 37's so I will effectively have the same setup except the 4:1 transfer case. Great to hear it tows well with the 3.73 gears!!
 

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As far as deletes go, to me it makes sense to run the vehicle until the warranty expires and then do deletes. That is my intention and I will have a really clean and lighter vehicle when that is done.
 

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houseofdiesel

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I had no issues with either of our 3.6 motors. The last was our 2016 JKU Rubi. I assumed they've only built upon the great reliability we experienced, of course I could be wrong, ours were quite bullet-proof. It was a dog though and I would have gone F/I with it had we not taken a hiatus from Jeep for a 4Runner (also a dog but a fun break).

@Oilburner - I've spoken to many on the JK/JKU side and ridden in a few. My ignorance on the diesel side, which led to my original questions regarding the modification on this platform, seems to have plucked a string on what appears to be a heated this vs. that debate.

If I were a diesel owner and someone asked me today, if the good old days of easily & reliably doubling your torque while adding 30%-ish horsepower are gone, and they were, it would piss me off unless I hadn't ever experienced those days and truly purchased my modern diesel to more efficiently tow loads. The thing is that hasn't happened. Why?

The feedback from those who have experienced modding diesel's a decade or more ago is (unanimously) to avoid new diesels. The feedback from those who haven't, and purchased their modern diesel is, it's fantastic.

I get where you're coming from. I'm not an internet warrior.

Thanks again for the feedback ya'll!

Look it is not unanimous. There are people that conform and people that don't. I have never quit buying diesels. Some are deleted some are compliant. Anyone that purchased a 6.4L for example will define all emissions diesel as not to buy. Pretty ignorant cause it was that mill specifically that was an absolute POS. Out of our entire fleet we have not had a single vehicle become non operable due to it's diesel emissions. Just like anything else they have their issues. I know many people that have everything from SRT to Audi RS that have gremlins or blown motors with factory spec vehicles. I've never had an Eco-joke/Eco-Boost for example last 100k miles. I do however have a 200k mile 444 rwhp 2011 F-250 with original turbo and trans and never had an issue other than 2 sensors that I replaced. I also have 2016 2.8L Canyon making 300 rwhp and stock 1.8L GMC Terrain and 3.0L Duramax Sierra 1500. I overwhelmingly enjoy the living hell out of all these diesel. As one person stated the newest generation of diesels are producing more power than 1st Gen turbo diesels that were tuned. The LM2 GM 3.0L for example makes 277/460. That is approaching the power of my 2006 V10 TDi that was a flat out screamer.


I'm absolutely amazed that all the haters troll in the diesel section and don't even own diesels. They are not really that much different than the Enviro Cult to be honest. I don't troll naturally asperated or ricer pages running my mouth about people's passion for their choices. That is their choice and it's awesome to have enthusiasts for a verity of options. To each their own. My nephew had a 1st gen Eco-diesel in a RAM 1500 and absolutely loved it and never had a problem with his. Traded it in at 100k for an HD Ford with the 6.7L.

I've owned everything from SC mills, every gen of an Unlimited, and now will be owning both a 392 Wrangler and Diesel Gladiator. I have real trucks for towing. The Gladiator like our Canyon will be for mostly recreational purposes but like our Canyon will still be able to handle our lighter duty flat bed and horse trailers. Not as enjoyable of a drive to haul the toys to the ranch in the F-450. Go talk to some light duty diesel owners on the Colorado/Canyon and Sierra/Silverado pages as well as RAM/Cherokee Eco-diesel pages and get their opinions. I see EcoDiesels all over the place on the road. And can tell you first hand my little diesel Crossover GMC Terrain is an absolute blast to drive on long trips like Bay Area to Phoenix or up to Washington. Phoenix to SJ for example was only an 9 hour haul doing 80-90 and only having to take 5 minutes to top off at the base of the Grape Vine. All the light duty ones as well. Wife just got back from Central Texas to SJ with the Canyon and only had to bother for fuel twice. People that don't understand the physics involved and the superior energy density of the diesel cycle need to stay off the diesel pages.

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Add to that the diesel has a longer factory warranty that will be maintained. People act like the minivan motor is a toyota 22r. Its not reliable as it is so why not at least get a motor that's got a longer warranty, makes a significant amount more power and gets better fuel economy? If most people drove both side by side they would see just how pitiful the 3.6 is. Add larger tires and its a no brainer.

I've had 4 separate Pentastar engines in 4 different vehicles, the most recent being the Gladiator.

I've reviewed the Gladiator EcoDiesel for a YouTube video, and I've put 12,500 miles on it in the Ram 1500 which is tuned for 38 lb/ft more than the Jeep version.

Subjectively and objectively (yes I've actually done 0-60 testing on both) the P-star will stomp a mud hole in the EcoDiesel and walk it dry. I'm talking bone stock form with both powertrains. The EcoDiesel is a lot of things but fast isn't one of them. In fact, on 35x12.50 Cooper STT Pro tires, my JL Pentastar would run 0-60 faster than my new EcoDiesel on stock tires. I measured many runs on many different days with a dash timer to verify. The 3.6 is faster.

I also have never once had a single mechanical or electrical issue with any of the 4 P-star engines I've owned, and I've beaten on them pretty good in the Dodge Challenger and I've towed heavy with them in the Jeeps. To me, it's one of the best engines FCA ever built. The multiple Ward's Best Engines wins seem to back that up too.

If a guy threw a blower on the P-star, it would obliterate the EcoDiesel in just about every single category you could test them for with the exception of fuel economy.

As far as the Toyota 22R engine....the reason those NEVER blew up is because they didn't make enough compression and power to make it possible to blow up. I've used Craftsman lawn tractors that had more power than a 22R. Those trucks would literally lose speed going up a hill on the highway unloaded. Toyota tried adding a turbo for a couple of years with marginally better results but they were still pathetic and dangerous. No compression and no horsepower = no problems. ;)
 

BEERviper

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Subjectively and objectively (yes I've actually done 0-60 testing on both) the P-star will stomp a mud hole in the EcoDiesel and walk it dry. I'm talking bone stock form with both powertrains. The EcoDiesel is a lot of things but fast isn't one of them. In fact, on 35x12.50 Cooper STT Pro tires, my JL Pentastar would run 0-60 faster than my new EcoDiesel on stock tires. I measured many runs on many different days with a dash timer to verify. The 3.6 is faster.
Interesting that the guys at TFL Truck did this same test and showed the Diesel being faster (granted it was a Wrangler and not a Gladiator and it was at altitude)...

 

ssteve

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I've had 4 separate Pentastar engines in 4 different vehicles, the most recent being the Gladiator.

I've reviewed the Gladiator EcoDiesel for a YouTube video, and I've put 12,500 miles on it in the Ram 1500 which is tuned for 38 lb/ft more than the Jeep version.

Subjectively and objectively (yes I've actually done 0-60 testing on both) the P-star will stomp a mud hole in the EcoDiesel and walk it dry. I'm talking bone stock form with both powertrains. The EcoDiesel is a lot of things but fast isn't one of them. In fact, on 35x12.50 Cooper STT Pro tires, my JL Pentastar would run 0-60 faster than my new EcoDiesel on stock tires. I measured many runs on many different days with a dash timer to verify. The 3.6 is faster.

I also have never once had a single mechanical or electrical issue with any of the 4 P-star engines I've owned, and I've beaten on them pretty good in the Dodge Challenger and I've towed heavy with them in the Jeeps. To me, it's one of the best engines FCA ever built. The multiple Ward's Best Engines wins seem to back that up too.

If a guy threw a blower on the P-star, it would obliterate the EcoDiesel in just about every single category you could test them for with the exception of fuel economy.

As far as the Toyota 22R engine....the reason those NEVER blew up is because they didn't make enough compression and power to make it possible to blow up. I've used Craftsman lawn tractors that had more power than a 22R. Those trucks would literally lose speed going up a hill on the highway unloaded. Toyota tried adding a turbo for a couple of years with marginally better results but they were still pathetic and dangerous. No compression and no horsepower = no problems. ;)
There will never be a scenario where I race my diesel truck against a mini van so I am not concerned about zero to sixty. I will however put larger tires on it, load it up with gear and pull massive grades at high elevations and I will enjoy having more torque than a moped. Additionally the only reason they would be close in your sports car scenario is cause the diesels are hampered by tq management in the first few gears. I’m glad you had good luck with your small sample size of mini van motors but that wont convince me they are reliable. Neither will a publication. Knowing techs that work on them regularly is a lot better source than fake awards.
 

Oilburner

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I for one can’t wait to see reliability & towing comparisons between the diesel & the 4xe. Apparently a lot of teething issues with the two lesser Jeep hybrid models they released in Europe.
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