Does a Lift change LCA/Shock Skid priority?

[GladLad]

Extreme trails: Yes

95% of everything else: No

I think about it like this: Jeep/ Stellantis markets and sells Jeeps as HD off-road vehicles. They know some of their owners; I estimate 20% will take their vehicles off-road. Those owners are going to use their Jeeps as they were told they could. Therefore, Jeep created both the product and the incentive to go off-road and explore. Some of the vehicles will be damaged, and Stellantis may be responsible for paying warranty claims. Therefore, it behooves them to build a product that will not cost them a bunch of their dwindling profit because under-engineered parts are breaking. The solution is simple: build parts that won't break under normal off-road usage.
Money drives, literally, everything.

That's true, most of my wheeling is tame, and none of it is the true extreme. Which also means when I do get a chance, I'm not as skilled at keeping the rocks off.

I've been to Moab, likely going again this year, along with CO, AZ, etc. So there are at least occasional opportunities. The offending bash was Drummond Island, MI.

Rare, but I may see some that is at least extreme enough for me. Thanks.

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[Stan H]

True for most things, but if you take your jeep off-road at all, smack a boulder and break a piece of your frame... 100% they are telling you to pound sand on your warranty claim. Doesn't matter if the advertise off roading or not. They don't care and are not engineering the control arm mounts for impact.

You whole post tells you what ,I and many others already Know warranties arent worth spit.

 

[UTDieselRubi]

Thanks, that's the example I was looking for. You lifted and that's still the area you bash up, so priority hasn't changed.

Do you hit the the axle side lca and shock mounts too? If so, it could also indicate your wheeling environment is different than mine. Likely is, as most of mine is tame, but I do have more out-west trips coming up.

The RH4X4 frame side skids are $320 now. Can you tell me if the bolts/nuts they supplied you are rusting, as reported elsewhere?

I can see how it would bend, it looks like it's only held on one side. At least for the fronts, looks like the rear bolts to both sides.

While there are plenty of options for the rear, the only other company I can find with frame side fronts is Barnes 4wd. They've wrapped it, including more bolts so it doesn't act like a cantilever. Only $60, requires some drilling.

No rust on the bolts, just mud in these pics, but the skids are rusting from the beatings. I hit the rear much more than the fronts so if you were looking to split up the buy, I would get the rears first. The rock hard fronts are extremely stable even though it bolts through on side due the the flat surface on the other side.

I dont run any skids or armor on my axle side so I dont lose clearance and I have never hit those. My tire normally clears all that.

 

[GladLad]

No rust on the bolts, just mud in these pics, but the skids are rusting from the beatings. I hit the rear much more than the fronts so if you were looking to split up the buy, I would get the rears first. The rock hard fronts are extremely stable even though it bolts through on side due the the flat surface on the other side.

I dont run any skids or armor on my axle side so I dont lose clearance and I have never hit those. My tire normally clears all that.

Wow, you went above and beyond, I appreciate that! Thanks for the pictures as it shows them better than on their site. Those rears certainly are rock magnets with the long wheelbase.

Maybe it's just the angle of the pics, but do the rears create a bit of a water bucket? A drain hole might be nice.

Thanks again!

 

[UTDieselRubi]

Wow, you went above and beyond, I appreciate that! Thanks for the pictures as it shows them better than on their site. Those rears certainly are rock magnets with the long wheelbase.

Maybe it's just the angle of the pics, but do the rears create a bit of a water bucket? A drain hole might be nice.

Thanks again!

No problem. The rears are flat on the bottom with no lip and there is a notch cut put the back to allow for more control arm articulation so no water pools inside. I would say the only downside to these is the 190ftlb torque spec and the need to re-torque after every trip. 190 is a pita on the gound.

 

[GladLad]

No problem. The rears are flat on the bottom with no lip and there is a notch cut put the back to allow for more control arm articulation so no water pools inside. I would say the only downside to these is the 190ftlb torque spec and the need to re-torque after every trip. 190 is a pita on the gound.

Re-torque after every trip? Why, if it gets hit does it rotate a little and has a chance to alter the bolt torque?

 

[GladLad]

I've never run a control arm mount, shock, or diff skid on anything. Nearly 3 decades of wheeling. Dozens of rubicon trips. Tens of thousands of off road miles. You aren't going to rip a mount off by dragging it in the rocks. You aren't going to wear through the bottom of a diff dragging it in the rocks, not even after thousands of miles. The skid fans want to show all their battle scars as proof that they needed them. 1. They hang lower, and in some cases significantly lower, so they'll drag in places the diff and mounts wouldn't have even touched. 2. The slight dent in the frame side mount posted won't affect anything. The control arm mount is just as strong as it was stock. The control arm can still be unbolted and removed just like before. When you're talking belly skids where things like oil pans, the exhaust crossover, etc are easily destroyed by contact with rocks, I'm all for armor. When we are talking control arm mounts or diffs? Not worth the cost and reduced ground clearance in my opinion.

Hi again. Speaking of control arm mounts and lowered clearance, I notice you mention having geometry correction brackets in other threads. You seem to wheel pretty hard, I wonder what your thoughts are on damage to the brackets?

My general thoughts: They're lower, so more vulnerable. A little more so being after the wheels, as opposed to under them like axle lca mount. However, they're still strong, and if damaged are at least sacrificially repairable. Plus, my current front lca frame is barely abused.

I can't say without a post-lift direct comparison of no-correction vs longer-lca vs geo-brackets, but my research suggests correction brackets are the most appropriate for 99. 9% of my drive time. And likely 90% of my offroad time.

In short, how are those puppies holding up to bangs and scrapes?

 

[ChrisNLA]

Not reading through all the comments, but:

Underbody skids to protect fuel tank, trans, engines. Yes, go for that.

Diff skids. No. Just put good solid diff covers on.

I'd only run a diff skid on an older JT that has the diff drain plug in the bottom of the front diff. I've seen that one work loose when drug on the ground enough times.

Lower control arm and shock skids? I'd prefer to just weld on reinforcements in these areas. Had Lower control arm and shock skids on my JK and was just a pain in the ass having additional crap to futz with when messing with control arms or shocks.

My truck is more or less a pavement princess now, so not much to worry about for me.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Hi again. Speaking of control arm mounts and lowered clearance, I notice you mention having geometry correction brackets in other threads. You seem to wheel pretty hard, I wonder what your thoughts are on damage to the brackets?

My general thoughts: They're lower, so more vulnerable. A little more so being after the wheels, as opposed to under them like axle lca mount. However, they're still strong, and if damaged are at least sacrificially repairable. Plus, my current front lca frame is barely abused.

I can't say without a post-lift direct comparison of no-correction vs longer-lca vs geo-brackets, but my research suggests correction brackets are the most appropriate for 99. 9% of my drive time. And likely 90% of my offroad time.

In short, how are those puppies holding up to bangs and scrapes?

The metalcloak geometry correction brackets are stout. I'd bet they hold up every bit as well as the skids do. That said, they've barely scraped anything. Picking good lines is more effective than just about anything else.

 

[ChrisNLA]

The metalcloak geometry correction brackets are stout. I'd bet they hold up every bit as well as the skids do. That said, they've barely scraped anything. Picking good lines is more effective than just about anything else.

'The tires go on the high spots'

Over generalization but as a group of guys that drove 1500 miles to wheel then had to drive 1500 miles back, we relied on good spotting and good lines for minimal damage...

 

[GladLad]

No problem. The rears are flat on the bottom with no lip and there is a notch cut put the back to allow for more control arm articulation so no water pools inside. I would say the only downside to these is the 190ftlb torque spec and the need to re-torque after every trip. 190 is a pita on the gound.

Sorry, coming back to this after further consideration. Couple Qs.

Why are you re-torquing after every trip. Is that an RH recommendation, your personal diligence for LCAs in general, or your opinion of the skid design not being able to prevent all rotation after a hit and possibly messing with the bolt's torque?

Second, how does it prevent rotation? They say there are bends to prevent it rotating backwards, but I just see minor bends in the front. And I can't imagine it'd be precise enough to truly lock it. Is there anything to prevent it rotating forward when struck, such as that front portion pressed against the frame?

Or are we just relying on the 190lb of torque for the most part. Which is pretty good I guess, but also why a post trip retorque may be called for.

 

[UTDieselRubi]

Sorry, coming back to this after further consideration. Couple Qs.

Why are you re-torquing after every trip. Is that an RH recommendation, your personal diligence for LCAs in general, or your opinion of the skid design not being able to prevent all rotation after a hit and possibly messing with the bolt's torque?

Second, how does it prevent rotation? They say there are bends to prevent it rotating backwards, but I just see minor bends in the front. And I can't imagine it'd be precise enough to truly lock it. Is there anything to prevent it rotating forward when struck, such as that front portion pressed against the frame?

Or are we just relying on the 190lb of torque for the most part. Which is pretty good I guess, but also why a post trip retorque may be called for.

I 100% forgot to reply the first time you asked, my bad.
They cannot rotate in the front thanks to the large flat support of the outer side. The rears dont because the side support for the frame mount is not completely circular, and it rests tightly against the angled front side. I have never had them rotate or had bolts loosen enough to cause concern. The re-torque, aside from general good practice with off road parts, is because I am running control arms that have Johnny joint ends. With Johnny joints, its all metal and they are slight smaller than the mounts, so the bolt torque is squeezing the mount to keep it tight. Even a slight loosening of the bolt from impacts and temperature changes causes them to clatter quite loudly. They come with lock nuts but those dont like the cold. I could probably solve it by adding lock tight, just haven't done it. You would probably not have this issue with stock or any rubber/poly bushing, but it would be good to re-torque every 5k mi or so anyway.

 

[GladLad]

I 100% forgot to reply the first time you asked, my bad.
They cannot rotate in the front thanks to the large flat support of the outer side. The rears dont because the side support for the frame mount is not completely circular, and it rests tightly against the angled front side. I have never had them rotate or had bolts loosen enough to cause concern. The re-torque, aside from general good practice with off road parts, is because I am running control arms that have Johnny joint ends. With Johnny joints, its all metal and they are slight smaller than the mounts, so the bolt torque is squeezing the mount to keep it tight. Even a slight loosening of the bolt from impacts and temperature changes causes them to clatter quite loudly. They come with lock nuts but those dont like the cold. I could probably solve it by adding lock tight, just haven't done it. You would probably not have this issue with stock or any rubber/poly bushing, but it would be good to re-torque every 5k mi or so anyway.

Thanks! Other than the reports of rusty bolts, which can be replaced, it's starting to sound like a better option.

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