Engine tick repair, to wait or not to wait?

[Charles 236]

These things can tick when cold or be quiet as an electric motor in other cases. When I stand outside of one, I can sometimes here a slight tick tick, but inside, nothing. I generally don't pay a whole lot of attention to first few seconds ticks - but then - define the tick? To some it might be loud, others it's just a small thing.

I need to see if I can rig up JSCAN on mine and see if I can tell when the thing switches into high lift mode and when it comes back out, I'm wondering if it's in high lift for starting to get the full valve lift for initial intake air, then settles back to low lift mode?

If I'm correct (if) these high lift portions of the followers drag slightly over the center cam profile even when not engaged, thus the spring - and I wonder if there's some slap there going on. Otherwise, if these run in low lift mode 2800 rpm and below, why is the high lift part blowing up on these?

These engines start in high lift mode, because oil pressure is required to release the pin that locks the slider into high lift. Until oil pressure builds (about 11 psi if I remember correctly), the pin holds the slider in high lift mode. Also, the slider is held in contact with the high lift lobe of the cam even when the engine is running in low lift mode. This is what the larger spring is for, the small spring engages the high lift lock pin until oil pressure releases the pin.

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[ShadowsPapa]

These engines start in high lift mode, because oil pressure is required to release the pin that locks the slider into high lift. Until oil pressure builds (about 11 psi if I remember correctly), the pin holds the slider in high lift mode. Also, the slider is held in contact with the high lift lobe of the cam even when the engine is running in low lift mode. This is what the larger spring is for, the small spring engages the high lift lock pin until oil pressure releases the pin.

That's been my assumption. Start in high lift, drop back to low lift.
The oil pressure in these climbs FAST. I've watched it. And these also start with the pump in high volume mode. So you are talking literally probably a count to 3 or 4 before the pump drops to low volume mode and the followers fall back to low lift.
I figured they needed to constantly follow the high lift profile so that when the pin locked them into high, it would be a seamless transition - quiet and smooth. Pressure retracts the lock pin against spring pressure. That makes me wonder if some of the ticking we might hear is all of those parts in action - following a cam profile held against the cam only by that spring holding that finger out, possible slapping.

 

[TheRealStreetcommander]

Sounds like a lifter/lash adjuster that’s not fully expanding on start. Irritating, but I wouldn’t worry about it unless it got much worse.

I run 0w40 oil in my Pentastar without worry. I don’t subscribe to the phaser or “too tight clearances” chatter —It’s silly and not supported by any evidence. My phasers work fine and my engine hasn’t self-emolated. Shadowspoppa said he would tow me home when it does though;(.

I UOA’d a 6500 mile duration sample and it showed the same wear-metal averages as the folks who run the OEM’s EPA mandated water oil.

My use of non-spec oils drives many of the senoir forum contributors mad. You should use what you are comfortable with since you are paying the bills. I’ll share what I use in good faith. Keep in mind it’s not viscosity that I’m chasing, it’s the additive package and the resulting film strength.

The ASTM has many oil wear-related tests. None are direct analogs to engine wear, but all provide good data on how good or bad an oil’s antiwear characteristics are. 0w20 passenger gas vehicle oils are objectively terrible at everything except cold flow.

 

[sabinjo]

Question: Does it happen ALL the time, or are there some cold starts where you don't get the noise.

Asking because I have the same exact sound under the same exact conditions, but it doesn't happen every single time.......just most times. And when I say cold start, it has to sit at least overnight, but sometimes longer.

Mine is a '22 I bought new in April of '22 that only now just turned 9,000 miles, and has had that noise since new, or at least from as close to the beginning that I can remember. Only happens on cold start, sometimes lasts for less than a minute until the RPMs settle down, sometimes remains and won't go away until I drive a little, but it always does go away at some point.

Of course every time I've taken it in for service and asked about it they don't hear it. Only real way to prove it is to drop it off the night before then go back the next day and start it with them to show them which I haven't done yet.

As a side note, I had a check engine light a few times early on and it needed a PCM update. After that was done, I swear that noise went away for at least a few weeks and I it ran much smoother.....but that was short lived and 'ol faithful came back. Maybe just my imagination and being too hopeful.

I've been casually concerned about it long term since my plan when I bought it was to keep it as long as it lasts....but I'm not so sure how long that's going to be anymore.

 

[Green_Gladiator]

Question: Does it happen ALL the time, or are there some cold starts where you don't get the noise.

Asking because I have the same exact sound under the same exact conditions, but it doesn't happen every single time.......just most times. And when I say cold start, it has to sit at least overnight, but sometimes longer.

Mine is a '22 I bought new in April of '22 that only now just turned 9,000 miles, and has had that noise since new, or at least from as close to the beginning that I can remember. Only happens on cold start, sometimes lasts for less than a minute until the RPMs settle down, sometimes remains and won't go away until I drive a little, but it always does go away at some point.

Of course every time I've taken it in for service and asked about it they don't hear it. Only real way to prove it is to drop it off the night before then go back the next day and start it with them to show them which I haven't done yet.

As a side note, I had a check engine light a few times early on and it needed a PCM update. After that was done, I swear that noise went away for at least a few weeks and I it ran much smoother.....but that was short lived and 'ol faithful came back. Maybe just my imagination and being too hopeful.

I've been casually concerned about it long term since my plan when I bought it was to keep it as long as it lasts....but I'm not so sure how long that's going to be anymore.

That is the scenario I have .. Every time only on start up and disappears. I also had to leave it overnight and start it up with the technician in the morning to verify and diagnose. I recommend you do the same and avoid the back & forth. Let me know your outcome ?

 

[sabinjo]

That is the scenario I have .. Every time only on start up and disappears. I also had to leave it overnight and start it up with the technician in the morning to verify and diagnose. I recommend you do the same and avoid the back & forth. Let me know your outcome ?

Thanks, will do. And please let us know here if and when you have any updates.

 

[Reddog]

2021 JTM purchased new factory order. Now with 30k miles. I’ve had a tick in my engine since day one only on start up once the RPMs settle down there’s an audible slap/tick that goes away once I drive for as little as a 1/4 mile and doesn’t re-create itself until the cold start again the following day, or for sitting at least eight hours.

The tech explained it as the needle bearings wear out of the followers causing this issue.

The tech asked if I’m going to be keeping the vehicle past its powertrain and I said yes for the life of the vehicle. His advice was to wait around the 50 - 55,000 mile mark to get it, replaced under warranty to extend the life of the repair.

Any thoughts on the diagnosis and waiting another 20-25k to replace as advised ?

Might be a good fix for the tech but wouldn't be for me. I always want to be sure what a problem is before deciding what to do about it. If he is correct, then waiting puts microscopic metal particles into your oil which will cause you premature problems down the road. Get it fixed now. And find out why the part failed so early. There is way too much of this kind of problem today in modern engines in my view. These engines are designed for long-life and a 30K failure should not be happening. Get it fixed and make sure that part is getting sufficient oiling.

 

[Green_Gladiator]

Might be a good fix for the tech but wouldn't be for me. I always want to be sure what a problem is before deciding what to do about it. If he is correct, then waiting puts microscopic metal particles into your oil which will cause you premature problems down the road. Get it fixed now. And find out why the part failed so early. There is way too much of this kind of problem today in modern engines in my view. These engines are designed for long-life and a 30K failure should not be happening. Get it fixed and make sure that part is getting sufficient oiling.

For sure! Thanks for the input mt friend. I woke up this morning wanting to get it resolved asap. So I am now trying to make arrangements to be with out the vehicle for a few days ..

 

[Stan H]

2021 JTM purchased new factory order. Now with 30k miles. I’ve had a tick in my engine since day one only on start up once the RPMs settle down there’s an audible slap/tick that goes away once I drive for as little as a 1/4 mile and doesn’t re-create itself until the cold start again the following day, or for sitting at least eight hours.

The tech explained it as the needle bearings wear out of the followers causing this issue.

The tech asked if I’m going to be keeping the vehicle past its powertrain and I said yes for the life of the vehicle. His advice was to wait around the 50 - 55,000 mile mark to get it, replaced under warranty to extend the life of the repair.

Any thoughts on the diagnosis and waiting another 20-25k to replace as advised ?

Sounds like another thread in which it was explained that the EGR valve can make this so called ticking noise . I too experienced this and when I took mine in they could not get it to reproduce and I too had it happen a couple times on a cold start with cold temps outside. I just changed the oil toonprior to it s appearance and have been religious about the oil changes. Using high end full synthetic oil of the correct 0-20 weight. I just kept driving it and it was 20000 miles ago and it runs like a top . Hard to tell what it was but as @ShadowsPapa stated if it was a needle bearing it wouldn't stop it would stay and get louder and louder .

 

[Stan H]

Question: Does it happen ALL the time, or are there some cold starts where you don't get the noise.

Asking because I have the same exact sound under the same exact conditions, but it doesn't happen every single time.......just most times. And when I say cold start, it has to sit at least overnight, but sometimes longer.

Mine is a '22 I bought new in April of '22 that only now just turned 9,000 miles, and has had that noise since new, or at least from as close to the beginning that I can remember. Only happens on cold start, sometimes lasts for less than a minute until the RPMs settle down, sometimes remains and won't go away until I drive a little, but it always does go away at some point.

Of course every time I've taken it in for service and asked about it they don't hear it. Only real way to prove it is to drop it off the night before then go back the next day and start it with them to show them which I haven't done yet.

As a side note, I had a check engine light a few times early on and it needed a PCM update. After that was done, I swear that noise went away for at least a few weeks and I it ran much smoother.....but that was short lived and 'ol faithful came back. Maybe just my imagination and being too hopeful.

I've been casually concerned about it long term since my plan when I bought it was to keep it as long as it lasts....but I'm not so sure how long that's going to be anymore.

For me if the top end goes I will repair. I'm out of warranty and it doesn't matter now anyway. And even at that I never intended on getting rid if it ever. No vehicle and I mean No vehicle has more after market options and parts available than a Jeep I have and will continue to morph this thing into the ride I want or need ad things either crop up or as a recent happening suspension was shot so I did an entire lift, shocks tires rims etc. I am making it my own and will continue to do so even on Transmission and engine as the needs or wants arise.

 

[Lost1wing]

Sounds like the 5.7 Hemi tick. Do you have a 5.7 hemi transplant and not telling us?

 

[sabinjo]

For me if the top end goes I will repair. I'm out of warranty and it doesn't matter now anyway. And even at that I never intended on getting rid if it ever. No vehicle and I mean No vehicle has more after market options and parts available than a Jeep I have and will continue to morph this thing into the ride I want or need ad things either crop up or as a recent happening suspension was shot so I did an entire lift, shocks tires rims etc. I am making it my own and will continue to do so even on Transmission and engine as the needs or wants arise.

I like that thinking and the same thing was always my plan from the get go. Also glad to hear that sounds like you may have had the same issue with no serious implications. I’ll still try to have it diagnosed at some point but do feel better about it reading through all of the input in this thread.

 

[jstin2525]

Any updates?
I have 23 rubicon and it makes this same sound on cold start.

 

[Green_Gladiator]

Any updates?
I have 23 rubicon and it makes this same sound on cold start.

Headed to the dealer in the next week or 2. Will update as soon as I get the truck back ?

 

[Green_Gladiator]

Quick update! Finally able to drop it off yesterday morning. Unable to send out the oil for testing like a lot of members recommended. Shame on me for sure. They said it will take about a week, have to get into the engine. Let’s see what they find/repair.

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