Finally geometry brackets data

[mx5red]

Something on my upgrade list is the AEV 2” lift for Mojaves and the bracket. After reading through this thread I will keep them on my list but with the opinion that whatever lift I have there will always be something that will bang them up if I go over that obstacle.
one example I experienced this past week was a square shaped rock about 15” high.
I rolled on top of it fine but when I rolled off the back of it I came down on something underneath that hung it up. Because I eased it down it only rested on the hardware without doing any damage and after nudging it forward decided I would rather back off instead of dragging what I think was my rails across the rock. After looking underneath I didn’t see any new scrapes or dents.
Since I’m trying to not destroy my Gladiator I’ll pick my obstacles judiciously and go slowly over rocks instead of pounding through them and breaking things.
some 35s would be nice also but I’ll probably have to wait until I wear out these factory 33s

To each their own on vehicle damage, but I think you can be more rough if you want…
I was inspired to buy my Jeep by watching Litebrite on YouTube, who absolutely abused their JLUR off-road and it took an impressive amount of damage in stock form.
As people keep stating, we get hung up on breakover angle and the geometry brackets are where I worry the least about damage.
I’ve added diff skids, hitch skid, rear LCA skid, engine skid.
@Zachanadandy is a better driver than I am, because I scrape the shit out of my skids on John Bull and Holcomb creek, and the frame/belly/OEM skids (stock, no aftermarket belly skids) take that abuse all day long. Just keep touching up with rustoleum

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[Zachanadandy]

To each their own on vehicle damage, but I think you can be more rough if you want…
I was inspired to buy my Jeep by watching Litebrite on YouTube, who absolutely abused their JLUR off-road and it took an impressive amount of damage in stock form.
As people keep stating, we get hung up on breakover angle and that is where I worry the least about damage.
I’ve added diff skids, hitch skid, rear LCA skid, engine skid.
@Zachanadandy is a better driver than I am, because I scrape the shit out of my skids on John Bull and Holcomb creek, and the frame/belly/OEM skids (stock, no aftermarket belly skids) take that abuse all day long. Just keep touching up with rustoleum

There was some scraping for sure, but the geometry correction brackets didn't touch anything. The Rock sliders, the full belly skids, the front bumper, the hitch, and a couple of the wheels all came away with some battle scars.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

From what I’ve read so far I get the idea that caster angle effects the smoothness of the ride at higher speeds which also tells me they don’t do as much at low speeds like crawling other slow speed offroading.

That's where some get confused, or the object of caster messed up.
Short is - no, that's not caster.
Caster is a steering angle, nothing to do with smoothness of ride, comfort and so on.
Caster impacts steering at all but the very slowest speeds. Caster makes a vehicle tend to want to track straight, resist turning - especially as speed, and caster helps return to straight after a turn or a curve.
I give this example - as a kid I could ride my "sting ray" bike clear across town - including some turns, with hands off the handle bars. That's caster. Once I got moving, it wanted to go straight. I could sit back, arms folded and enjoy the ride, not touching the handlebars for blocks and blocks.
It's a steering angle, not a ride or comfort angle.

The confusion comes from the fact that most "geometry correction brackets" also affect caster while their purpose is to return the control arm to a better angle or position relative to the vehicle and to the ground.
In doing so, because the control arm swings in an arc, with the axle being a fulcrum or anchor point, then moving the rear of the control arm down also moves it rearward in that arc, imparting more positive caster when talking of the lower control arm.
Caster is the relative position of the upper ball joint to the lower ball joint. If you draw a line straight through the center of the ball joints, or king pin, or pivot point when steering, if the upper is behind the lower, then you have positive caster - like a bicycle or motorcycle or even a shopping cart.
Because of this, the wheels will try to resist turning left or right, and in turning the wheels it also has a tendency to want to lift the vehicle. So in a way, like camber, the weight of the vehicle pressing down on the front wheels due to caster (it gets more complex combined with SAI, camber and so on) wants to make the wheels straighten out again.
I've grossly over-simplified here, but the basics thing is -
Geometry correcting brackets correct geometry, and that impacts ride, brake dive and so on, but since they also force the control arm down, and because the control arm swings in an arc, they impart caster as another effect.
The geometry correcting feature is what helps ride, comfort, going over harsh terrain, brake dive;
the caster correcting part that they also do is for steering and stability and keeping things going straight and not wandering.

I've got a cardiology appointment ---- again -----otherwise I might try to draw it out or look in my old texts and TSMs and such and see if I can find good examples in pictures, etc.

 

[KevinM60]

To each their own on vehicle damage, but I think you can be more rough if you want…
I was inspired to buy my Jeep by watching Litebrite on YouTube, who absolutely abused their JLUR off-road and it took an impressive amount of damage in stock form.
As people keep stating, we get hung up on breakover angle and that is where I worry the least about damage.
I’ve added diff skids, hitch skid, rear LCA skid, engine skid.
@Zachanadandy is a better driver than I am, because I scrape the shit out of my skids on John Bull and Holcomb creek, and the frame/belly/OEM skids (stock, no aftermarket belly skids) take that abuse all day long. Just keep touching up with rustoleum

to each his own, for sure.
I do scrape and bang here and there but I don’t want to tear things up to the point of having to replace them because I don’t have the money for that.

 

[KevinM60]

the caster correcting part that they also do is for steering and stability and keeping things going straight and not wandering.

you are correct that caster has more effect on steering. When I said smoothness I was oversimplifying or misstating the effect.
I did a little looking on the web last night for info on caster angle to get an understanding of how it works
https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/caster/

 

[Mav4x4Chris]

Says there is data. Provides subjective statements. Mmmmk.

Anyway. I ran drop brackets on my two door JK - and yes it was wheeled (fourteen BOH trails from coast to coast, plus plenty of non BOH wheeling). The drop brackets did not hinder the Jeep at all. It did however improve axle steer ever so slightly when the suspension rolled side to side - mostly noticeable at high speeds in turns, and improved ride quality slightly.

Also, it improved droop. While I could not stuff a tire any further into the fender (cause well, the Jeep was in the way) I COULD droop the opposite side even further than before. Better flex keeps tires in contact with the ground = more capable rig. It scored like 1080 on the RTI ramp with 33's and a basic MC lift - just the upper front control arms (not the whole set) and Rock Sport shocks.

Scraped up metal isn't proof of anything. The entire bottom of my JK looked like that bumper to bumper. My buddy has smashed in the OEM lower control arm mounts (on the frame) on his JK on both sides - no drop brackets. You wheel, you are tearing something up at some point.

 

[Wet Willys]

I run adjustable control arms and geometry correction brackets because as much as I like to wheel my JT, I also like to drive it on the road as comfortably as possible....it's not just an off-road toy. I scrape the brackets a bit here and there when wheeling, but have never been concerned about a "failure on the trail". Lots of folks have been running these for a while now, and I haven't heard one story of them failing, or even becoming so damaged they had to be replaced.

 

[Mays9185]

Says there is data. Provides subjective statements. Mmmmk.

Anyway. I ran drop brackets on my two door JK - and yes it was wheeled (fourteen BOH trails from coast to coast, plus plenty of non BOH wheeling). The drop brackets did not hinder the Jeep at all. It did however improve axle steer ever so slightly when the suspension rolled side to side - mostly noticeable at high speeds in turns, and improved ride quality slightly.

Also, it improved droop. While I could not stuff a tire any further into the fender (cause well, the Jeep was in the way) I COULD droop the opposite side even further than before. Better flex keeps tires in contact with the ground = more capable rig. It scored like 1080 on the RTI ramp with 33's and a basic MC lift - just the upper front control arms (not the whole set) and Rock Sport shocks.

Scraped up metal isn't proof of anything. The entire bottom of my JK looked like that bumper to bumper. My buddy has smashed in the OEM lower control arm mounts (on the frame) on his JK on both sides - no drop brackets. You wheel, you are tearing something up at some point.

When I said data jokingly I was referring to battle scars and the trolls came unhinged.

 

[Gvsukids]

Doesn't matter - come across as never really learned geometry and suspension - and definitely your first time modifying a JT.
I know about handling characteristics of course. But you came across as if this is your first time trying to figure out a JT - and then try to tell the old-timers they are all wrong about something some have done with Gladiators for 4 years?
You think that thousands of JT owners and the JT having been around for 4 years (plus) that you have new data and suddenly tell them they've all wasted their money and you know, with your "data" (data - love how that's applied to a single experience with no numbers or stats) that they are WRONG?

OP didn’t like drop brackets when wheeling. Not surprising. The thread title is bad.

OP was upset U of M won and wrote a post about another scarring incident.

 

[whysoserious]

If you were truly joking, great. However, I think you posted a personal opinion as fact and weren't ready for most or any of the responses you received. Had you simply said "I tried the geo brackets and didn't like them", the responses would have been much different. In fact, if you take the time to reread your original post, you'll likely find the issue was you. The only troll here was you stating an opinion as though it was fact, and then repeatedly trying to defend it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

When I said data jokingly I was referring to battle scars and the trolls came unhinged.

You may want to have some independent individual read your first port and subject and give you an honest assessment of how it reads.
Battle scars are one thing, you were totally trashing the brackets and more. And it came across as a total amateur never having dealt with a Gladiator or taking trails or understanding what GEOMETRY is (and it's not caster)

A little backtracking is how it looks now.

Larry Tate comes to mind.

 

[whysoserious]

You may want to have some independent individual read your first port and subject and give you an honest assessment of how it reads.
Battle scars are one thing, you were totally trashing the brackets and more. And it came across as a total amateur never having dealt with a Gladiator or taking trails or understanding what GEOMETRY is (and it's not caster)

A little backtracking is how it looks now.

Larry Tate comes to mind.

Nice one from the past...
Larry Tate!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! That's awesome!!!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Nice one from the past...
Larry Tate!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! That's awesome!!!

Then you remember and know exactly what I mean.

 

[whysoserious]

Then you remember and know exactly what I mean.

My mom used to watch that show when I was a kid and, of course, that's what I watched.

 

[Mays9185]

You may want to have some independent individual read your first port and subject and give you an honest assessment of how it reads.
Battle scars are one thing, you were totally trashing the brackets and more. And it came across as a total amateur never having dealt with a Gladiator or taking trails or understanding what GEOMETRY is (and it's not caster)

A little backtracking is how it looks now.

Larry Tate comes to mind.

What no sense of humor from your moms basement. What autocorrect never changed a word on you that you didn't see. Your just a internet troll always want to bash someone regardless. I bet you go bed telling yourself your perfect...lol. And far from back tracking I still think you don't need them.

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