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First oil change....AMSOIL 0w20 or 5w30.

KurtP

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Given the testing done on the Mobile 1 0w20 (and im guessing amsoil) just run what they tell you. Oil tech has advanced. A lot.

these new modern synthetics hold up to heat and sheering in ways we never dreamt of 20 years ago.
 

KurtP

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You can get M1 0w20 synthetic extended life and m1 extended filter for around $35. Its a no brainer imo.
 

dakota.morgan91

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The owners manual says “ we recommend....” not “we require...” so what you use is up to you. Any lubrication issues when using a different oil would be on you.

Having said that I can guarantee that no one on this forum has a PhD in Chemical Engineering and has more experience than the guys who designed the 3.6 so why try to second guess them..??

Driving your Jeep in South Florida does not put a great thermal stress on the truck. Most manufacturers test their vehicles in places like Australia in the summer where temps can run over 120 degrees and Alaska in the winter when it’s 30 below...

The above information plus the fact that the first 4 changes are free at the dealer makes it a no brainer for me...
Just my $0.02
Most manuals say "recommend". It's the same with Subaru, but I can tell you that they will void the shit out of your warranty!
I agree that probably no one here is a chemical engineer, but another thing I do know for a fact is that most manufacturers have switched to 0W-20 due to cafe regulations (fuel economy), not engine protection. The Pentastar engine is a dinosaur of a motor.... old tech, and it was initially designed for 5W-30. FCA just like Subaru switched to 0w-20 around 2010-2013-ish for emissions reasons. 0w-20 puts less drag on the engine thereby increasing fuel economy. This is the legitimate reason Subaru switched and based upon the era the Pentastar was designed around I have to believe they are doing the same.
Unfortunately, car manufacturers bend to the will of the government regulations before what the engineers say. I have many examples of this from my career with Subaru.
 

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KurtP

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0w20‘s primary reason for existence is cafe for sure. And of course they bend to the will of the government...they dont have a choice. The government is hung like a clydesdale and thinks saying “bite the pillow. Im coming in dry” counts for foreplay.

i have some education in chemical engineering and applied physics. Going to a lighter oil doesnt necessarily mean it isnt protecting The engine. Modern oils stand up way better to heat and sheer than they used to. And modern machining tolerances -even on aged motor designs- means less issues in surface wear to parts.

believe me, i get it. Years ago i ran 20w50 in my track car. It took me a long time to come around on 0w20. But good 0w20’s are some of the most engineered and tested oils ever made; and the aversion to them is normalcy bias on what we have been used to.
 
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Coconut oil is a favorite of mine. Smells amazing on a warm engine😂
I’ve traveled down this rabbit hole with German, Brit and Japanese autos and assorted motorcycles over the years. The information can give you a migraine. Oil has come a long way. Metallurgy has come a long way and can be fickle in some applications. Machine tolerance is much more precise as well. I had to force myself to not pour 10w30 in things based on what worked well for me on my first car. Use the recommended weight, pick your favorite brand, change your oil on schedule, and monitor wear. Most high end oil will do what is required for the interval. If you are in an extremely demanding situation, change more often. Peanut oil smells amazing too. 😉
 

ShadowsPapa

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Coconut oil is a favorite of mine. Smells amazing on a warm engine😂
I’ve traveled down this rabbit hole with German, Brit and Japanese autos and assorted motorcycles over the years. The information can give you a migraine. Oil has come a long way. Metallurgy has come a long way and can be fickle in some applications. Machine tolerance is much more precise as well. I had to force myself to not pour 10w30 in things based on what worked well for me on my first car. Use the recommended weight, pick your favorite brand, change your oil on schedule, and monitor wear. Most high end oil will do what is required for the interval. If you are in an extremely demanding situation, change more often. Peanut oil smells amazing too. 😉
How about EVOO?
 

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0w20‘s primary reason for existence is cafe for sure. And of course they bend to the will of the government...they dont have a choice. The government is hung like a clydesdale and thinks saying “bite the pillow. Im coming in dry” counts for foreplay.

i have some education in chemical engineering and applied physics. Going to a lighter oil doesnt necessarily mean it isnt protecting The engine. Modern oils stand up way better to heat and sheet than they used to. And modern machining tolerances -even on aged motor designs- means less issues in surface wear to parts.

believe me, i get it. Years ago i ran 20w50 in my track car. It took me a long time to come around on 0w20. But good 0w20’s are some of the most engineered and tested oils ever made; and the aversion to them is normalcy bias on what we have been used to.
CAFE 100%. I've been a long time Ram and Hemi owner. It's pretty common issue for lifter tick and cam failure on 5.7 Hemi's. One of the thing we/I have been doing for years is going from the recommended 5w20 to a 5w30 or even 0w40 oil with high moly content. Redline, Amsoil, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. All high moly content oils. We're not seeing any issues with VVT or the MDS systems using higher weight oils. But the tick either goes away or subsides considerably. And lifter/cam failures aren't as frequent.

That's application specific. But, I could see similar scenarios playing out on the 3.6 Pentastar should the need arise.

I run the same Redline 5w30 in my 3.6 JKR, even though 5w20 is recommended. 120k miles and the engine is perfect. Blackstone reports come back excellent.

I'm more inclined to believe that running a good oil with an excellent additive package is more important than the weight, unless there are weight specific issues. And a synthetic glass fiber media filter.
 

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ShadowsPapa

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. And a synthetic glass fiber media filter.
I've switched to synthetic media filters for my performance stuff. What got me started was the fact that I was finding it impossible to find filters locally for my Javelins. And there's a VERY close proximity as far as oil filter to the output terminal on the alternator, and the oil pressure sending unit and if like me you run both a light and a gauge (rally pack) it's even worse, a full sized filter was a pain.
Another fly in the ointment was the fact that the Gen II AMC engines had an oil filter adapter that had a bypass valve built in. A machinist was making and selling adapters that got rid of that and changed the thread size and pitch to use modern filters. So I was going to change my 73 over.
(they changed thread size and pitch so that you could not put a filter with a bypass on an engine that already had one - or worse, put a filter that did not have the bypass on an engine that didn't have a bypass and blow the filter up)

I checked into Mobil 1 filters after someone recommended that they had a good filter for these engines - but wow they were sure SMALL. I started digging and found Mobil 1 guaranteed the filters and claimed they'd hold xx times the crud that a standard filter could hold.
I was getting some conflicting info on fitment and decided to CALL the number on the package. I got to talk to a person who was apparently not just their "is it plugged in, is it turned on" person. He knew his stuff. He knew numbers, media, fitment and more.
I could get their filters locally.
So I'm now running smaller filters that do a better job, hold more crud and don't come so close to the output terminal.
 

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You would be better off using the lighter weight oil for the first 30k. The tolerances are much tighter at this point and that is why the oil spec is 0W20.As the engine wears then go to 5W30
This is my plan. I’m close to 40k on the clock & just ordered Amsoil 5w30syn. Have been running Amsoil 0w20syn since 1st oil change @ ~5k.
 

MrZappo

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This is my plan. I’m close to 40k on the clock & just ordered Amsoil 5w30syn. Have been running Amsoil 0w20syn since 1st oil change @ ~5k.
Ill file this in the "wont make a bit of difference" column ...

And honestly, I swear i'm not being difficult but seriously, aren't we overthinking this ? Tolerances are tighter and THAT is the reason for the 0w20 ? So, which is it ? Is is a government thing ? Is it a CAFE thing ? Is it a tolerances thing ?

Based on this I guess we should be switching to 10w40 at 80,000 when tolerances are looser still ?

At what mileage should I plan to switch to 20w50 ?

Run the recommended weight. I guarantee that you will not have a problem caused by lubrication and I am confident in this statement because i've never seen nor heard of one that was due to the oil specifically ... Or run 5w30 and you wont either ... The engine will last the same number of miles which will occur 3 owners in the future ...

Honestly this stuff has me perplexed ... A new reason based on science with no science to back it up ... And by science, I mean measurements and documentation ..

Flame away ...

If I've been too sharp here, I owe someone a beer ... Im really a nice person ...
 

Vincent

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Ill file this in the "wont make a bit of difference" column ...

And honestly, I swear i'm not being difficult but seriously, aren't we overthinking this ? Tolerances are tighter and THAT is the reason for the 0w20 ? So, which is it ? Is is a government thing ? Is it a CAFE thing ? Is it a tolerances thing ?

Based on this I guess we should be switching to 10w40 at 80,000 when tolerances are looser still ?

At what mileage should I plan to switch to 20w50 ?

Run the recommended weight. I guarantee that you will not have a problem caused by lubrication and I am confident in this statement because i've never seen nor heard of one that was due to the oil specifically ... Or run 5w30 and you wont either ... The engine will last the same number of miles which will occur 3 owners in the future ...

Honestly this stuff has me perplexed ... A new reason based on science with no science to back it up ... And by science, I mean measurements and documentation ..

Flame away ...

If I've been too sharp here, I owe someone a beer ... Im really a nice person ...
I’ll take the beer! :beer:
It’s all good for me...
Cheers!
 

ShadowsPapa

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Ill file this in the "wont make a bit of difference" column ...

And honestly, I swear i'm not being difficult but seriously, aren't we overthinking this ? Tolerances are tighter and THAT is the reason for the 0w20 ? So, which is it ? Is is a government thing ? Is it a CAFE thing ? Is it a tolerances thing ?

Based on this I guess we should be switching to 10w40 at 80,000 when tolerances are looser still ?

At what mileage should I plan to switch to 20w50 ?

Run the recommended weight. I guarantee that you will not have a problem caused by lubrication and I am confident in this statement because i've never seen nor heard of one that was due to the oil specifically ... Or run 5w30 and you wont either ... The engine will last the same number of miles which will occur 3 owners in the future ...

Honestly this stuff has me perplexed ... A new reason based on science with no science to back it up ... And by science, I mean measurements and documentation ..

Flame away ...

If I've been too sharp here, I owe someone a beer ... Im really a nice person ...
LOL - too much speculation. Over-thinking. Non-engine builders making it complex.

Why thicker oil with some wear? As long as the oil pressure is there it's getting oil to where it should be and if the oil had a good rating under pressure (PSI rating among other things) there's no need to switch around. Pick one and use it regardless of miles.
I run the same oil be it the very first after I've built an engine or after I've got 40K on that same engine. Viscosity and pressure don't protect. The oil film does.
I run oils that have at least a 90 psi wear rating (as tested by an engineer) or 100psi+ is even better.
Viscosity is whatever.


Here's some quotes from an engineer and occasional racer -

• Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components. Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INdirectly water cooled. And better flowing thinner oil will keep critical engine components cooler because it carries heat away faster than slower flowing thicker oil can. This is especially important with plain main and rod bearings, since the flow of oil through the bearings is what cools them. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will drive up engine component temps.

Here are some comparison numbers from an 830 HP road race engine on the track:

15W50 oil = 80 psi = 265* oil sump temperature

5W20 oil = 65 psi = 240* oil sump temperature

(oil returns to the pan quicker, is cooler)


• Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating critical engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can. Most engine wear takes place during cold start-up before oil flow can reach all the components (the longer an engine has been sitting, the more of a concern this becomes), and during warm-up while the oil is still thicker and not flowing as freely as it does during normal hot operating temperature. So, quicker flowing thinner oil will help reduce start-up and warm-up engine wear, which is actually reducing wear overall.

• The more free flowing thinner oil during cold start-up and warm-up, is also much less likely to cause the oil filter bypass to open up, compared to thicker oil. Of course if the bypass opened up, that would allow unfiltered oil to be pumped through the engine. The colder the ambient temperature, and the more rpm used when the engine is cold, the more important this becomes.

• Thinner oil also flows more freely when fully warmed-up to normal operating temperatures. And oil FLOW is lubrication, but oil pressure is NOT lubrication. Oil pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. Running thicker oil just to up the oil pressure is the wrong thing to do, because that only reduces oil flow/lubrication. Oil pressure in and of itself, is NOT what we are after.
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