First Transmission Drain and Fill

[70deuce]

We have a couple of John Deere tractors with their hydrostatic static drive transmissions. Their recommendation is do not replace the transmission fluid unless maintenance is required. Me, I’m old school. I will won’t worry about the JDs but probably change the fluid on the JT somewhere over 50K. Cost hurts but what else can.

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[Mr._Bill]

I think a drain/fill and filter replacement should be done sometime around 60k to 80k miles. This is similar to the recommendation of the designer of the transmission. The seller of the transmission says it does not need to be done at all. One problem is that unless the dealer does the drain and fill, you run the risk of warranty denial if the transmission fails. Even if the dealer does it, there is still a risk because a closed system is being opened that the manufacturer says should be left alone. There is also the risk that the dealer is not competent enough to do it correctly.

So, you either do preventative maintenance and hope there are no issues, or follow the manufacturers recommendation and hope that it actually lasts as intended.

 

[mrmo]

Great writeup. only thing is when you say the Quart container only contains 855ml..... you are incorrect..... It weighs 855gms (weight)and contains 945ml (volume)........ Weight and Volume are looking for different things

was just getting ready to say that, you got fluid amount mixed up with weight....you are checking ounces or grams, depends on what you have the scale set on

 

[DanW]

I think a drain/fill and filter replacement should be done sometime around 60k to 80k miles. This is similar to the recommendation of the designer of the transmission. The seller of the transmission says it does not need to be done at all. One problem is that unless the dealer does the drain and fill, you run the risk of warranty denial if the transmission fails. Even if the dealer does it, there is still a risk because a closed system is being opened that the manufacturer says should be left alone. There is also the risk that the dealer is not competent enough to do it correctly.

So, you either do preventative maintenance and hope there are no issues, or follow the manufacturers recommendation and hope that it actually lasts as intended.

Warranty ends at 60,000. So that's a moot issue.

 

[Mr._Bill]

Warranty ends at 60,000. So that's a moot issue.

Not if you purchased a Mopar Extended Warranty.

 

[Fastwake]

Mam i REEEAAALLLLYYYYY need to do this ?‍ im just shy of 104,000 miles…i bought the stuff to do this when i was around 80k haha

104K any mechanical problems at all .

 

[DanW]

Not if you purchased a Mopar Extended Warranty.

Actually, you should still be ok.

I have a factory lifetime powertrain warranty on my 2008 JK Wrangler. When it had 116k miles on it, the transmission (manual) was slipping out of gear once in awhile and was making a rattling noise at low rpm when under load. They replaced it under the warranty and never asked if it had been serviced, although I did keep a maintenance log. I had changed the transmission fluid twice on my own.

Besides, that, they say the transmission fluid is lifetime. So how exactly are they going to deny a warranty 1) if you did the service yourself, and 2) How would they know you did that if you did not tell them? If they asked if it had been serviced, you could just show them the owner's manual.

So I really don't see the risk or problem with servicing it yourself. They'll never know if you don't tell them, unless you don't use Mopar parts. I doubt the techs are looking at serial numbers or markings, either.

There is actually a recommended service interval on the NSG370 in that 2008. Even with that, they never asked. I changed it every 30k with the proper Syncrhomesh spec, for the record.

My 2018 JL has the Maxcare lifetime warranty. I do all of the service myself and keep a record of it that includes the type of fluid and amount used. I'm confident that will be sufficient if a question arises. Again, I've never had an issue with Jeep honoring their warranty, regular or extended. They've been great.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I think a drain/fill and filter replacement should be done sometime around 60k to 80k miles. This is similar to the recommendation of the designer of the transmission

Yup. That's my thinking for sure. The harder the drives - such as the more towing, then it creeps down from that 80 to more like 70, etc. but there's really no reason to freak out. OLD open transmissions, with lower pressures and open to the air with a dipstick tube and so on went more miles with no trouble.
I've been into transmissions since the early 1970s and it's just amazing the urban legends and shade-tree stuff still going around and people believing that even though old technology could go tens of thousands of miles, these with far superior engineering and superior modern fluids can't struggle past 50K!

 

[Almost]

One problem is that unless the dealer does the drain and fill, you run the risk of warranty denial if the transmission fails. Even if the dealer does it, there is still a risk because a closed system is being opened that the manufacturer says should be left alone. There is also the risk that the dealer is not competent enough to do it correctly.

So, you either do preventative maintenance and hope there are no issues, or follow the manufacturers recommendation and hope that it actually lasts as intended.

Sorry, that is just not true. I know this first hand because my dealer tried to void my lifetime powertrain warranty on my JKU at 205K miles saying I improperly serviced the transmission saying I didn't use the correct oil or filter. I called their bluff and pulled the receipts and they ended up replacing mine under warranty. I used a Wix filter and Mopar ATF. The only risk is failure to document your service history and parts used. Long story short they incorrectly diagnosed a bad wire in the trans harness and the trans itself was perfectly fine. Got a new one for free under warranty. You can also log you own service records right on the Mopar "My Garage" site and the dealer can see them and vise versa so there is full transparency.

I just changed my filter and trans fluid on my JTRD 2 months ago at 30K miles and the magnets are covered in metal shavings from break-in. It's not a closed system, it's as easy as dropping the pan and refilling through the fill hole. It's almost impossible to screw up unless you don't get the trans up to the proper temp range. You simply fill until it comes out the same hole you fill it from. It's idiot proof.

Both magnets will be filled like this even at just 30K miles. I plan on keeping my JTRD until I die so I prefer preventative maintenance. Mopar does not have your best interest in mind when they make service intervals as evidenced by the "lifetime" fluid in the transmission.

 

[DanW]

Sorry, that is just not true. I know this first hand because my dealer tried to void my lifetime powertrain warranty on my JKU at 205K miles saying I improperly serviced the transmission saying I didn't use the correct oil or filter. I called their bluff and pulled the receipts and they ended up replacing mine under warranty. I used a Wix filter and Mopar ATF. The only risk is failure to document your service history and parts used. Long story short they incorrectly diagnosed a bad wire in the trans harness and the trans itself was perfectly fine. Got a new one for free under warranty. You can also log you own service records right on the Mopar "My Garage" site and the dealer can see them and vise versa so there is full transparency.

I just changed my filter and trans fluid on my JTRD 2 months ago at 30K miles and the magnets are covered in metal shavings from break-in. It's not a closed system, it's as easy as dropping the pan and refilling through the fill hole. It's almost impossible to screw up unless you don't get the trans up to the proper temp range. You simply fill until it comes out the same hole you fill it from. It's idiot proof.

Both magnets will be filled like this even at just 30K miles. I plan on keeping my JTRD until I die so I prefer preventative maintenance. Mopar does not have your best interest in mind when they make service intervals as evidenced by the "lifetime" fluid in the transmission.

Ok, just to be clear.....Are you getting it to full operating temp before draining and filling? Or can you just drain it, change the filter, button it up, and refill until it comes out the fill hole? I'm planning on doing mine next summer.

Oh, and how many quarts should I expect to need?

I am currently at 35k miles. So it'll probably be at 40k when I do it. I'll then do it every 35k to 40k afterward.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There's a very specific method to it - and the transmission temperature needs to be at a certain point - not operating temperature and not cold. In fact, warming it up to check the level or refill can actually mean you can get it too warm. Fluid expands and contracts as heated and cooled, so they are specific about the check level temperature.
There's a decent write-up abut that process here by a forum member.

And it is considered a closed or semi-closed system - there's no drain plug and there's no direct access to fill, no open dipstick tube. So it's less prone to outside contamination than the past.

I've done countless automatics over the decades, and sorry, but the "concern" about the stuff on those magnets? That's nuttin. People without years of experience see that, though, and oh, man, that's BAD!
No, not really. That magnet did the trick, it's fine now. That's exactly how it might look. Some may be better, but that in the pics - meh, I'd not be concerned and I used to rebuild transmissions for a living.
A big difference when you understand and have had tons of hands-on, and seen many many dozens of transmission internals.
It's not going to fail if you don't service it so soon. But the internet is what it is........ so the messages will keep getting posted around and it's more fact than real fact.

 

[Almost]

Ok, just to be clear.....Are you getting it to full operating temp before draining and filling? Or can you just drain it, change the filter, button it up, and refill until it comes out the fill hole? I'm planning on doing mine next summer.

Oh, and how many quarts should I expect to need?

I am currently at 35k miles. So it'll probably be at 40k when I do it. I'll then do it every 35k to 40k afterward.

It needs to be between 40-50C or 104 - 122F per the video below, but the service manual says 30-50C.

The filter and pan come as one - you just swap it out. You fill it until it comes out the hole then plug it up and start it and go through the gears stationary to get the fluid circulated then pull the plug and top it off until the fluid comes back out the hole. You must make sure the vehicle is running during the 2nd fil or it will be low. I bought 10 quarts from FCP along with the hand pump they sell which makes it a breeze and only used about 6 quarts. I plan on dropping the pan again in another 30K miles to check the magnets. After that I will probably change every 60K miles.

How to Video:
ZF 8-Speed Transmission Oil Change (BMW, Audi, VW, Dodge, Land Rover, Toyota, & More) - YouTube

Service manual:
https://aftermarket.zf.com/app/cont...nary/22f16dae-c571-11ec-a2e7-00505690da53.pdf

Pump:
Fluid Transfer Pump - Performance Tool W1141 | FCP Euro

Fluid:
Lifeguard 8 Automatic Transmission Fluid (1 Liter) - ZF S67109031201 | FCP Euro

 

[DanW]

There's a very specific method to it - and the transmission temperature needs to be at a certain point - not operating temperature and not cold. In fact, warming it up to check the level or refill can actually mean you can get it too warm. Fluid expands and contracts as heated and cooled, so they are specific about the check level temperature.
There's a decent write-up abut that process here by a forum member.

And it is considered a closed or semi-closed system - there's no drain plug and there's no direct access to fill, no open dipstick tube. So it's less prone to outside contamination than the past.

I've done countless automatics over the decades, and sorry, but the "concern" about the stuff on those magnets? That's nuttin. People without years of experience see that, though, and oh, man, that's BAD!
No, not really. That magnet did the trick, it's fine now. That's exactly how it might look. Some may be better, but that in the pics - meh, I'd not be concerned and I used to rebuild transmissions for a living.
A big difference when you understand and have had tons of hands-on, and seen many many dozens of transmission internals.
It's not going to fail if you don't service it so soon. But the internet is what it is........ so the messages will keep getting posted around and it's more fact than real fact.

Does the expansion/contraction really add up to enough to overcome the low/high safety margin? I know in FCA/Stellantis engines, they are designed to meet all performance specs in a range from 1 full quart of oil low to 1 full quart overfilled. I can't imagine there isn't a safety gap built into this transmission?

 

[Gren71]

104K any mechanical problems at all .

my rear dif blew a tooth at around 70k, dealer recognized it while performing a "4 wheel drive" service. I get two a year since I tow a trailer a lot and wanted to keep up with the maintenance through the dealer while I had my 100k warranty. After my rear was replaced no mechanical issues.

I do currently have a tick when starting the truck up that dissipates while it warms up..pretty much goes away once I start driving, so I dont worry about it. I do my best to let the truck warm up before driving..start it and sit until the rpms drop to 1k.

 

[Almost]

Does the expansion/contraction really add up to enough to overcome the low/high safety margin? I know in FCA/Stellantis engines, they are designed to meet all performance specs in a range from 1 full quart of oil low to 1 full quart overfilled. I can't imagine there isn't a safety gap built into this transmission?

Doesn't appear there is a real margin of error because you can't over fill it and can only under fill it by not following the procedure. Trail Recon ran into this issue and it caused a transmission whine. Based on that I'm going to say it's imperative you make sure the fluids at proper levels.

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