From sport to rubicon suspension

[Flyinarmbar]

Hello all, 2020 sport with max tow and 33’s. After 100,000 miles I decided to change the shocks and front springs for brand new (100 miles)take offs. Came off a gladiator rubicon with steel front bumper and winch. I swapped the front springs and shocks. Gave me the leveling look I wanted. After researching here, I kept my rear max tow springs and changed the shocks for the Rubi. I have also moved to terra grappler 35’s. The extend of my off-roading is basically grassy trails on upstate property. I drive a lot on the hwy and holy shit, it feels so bouncy on shitty NY hwys and it feels like it wants to roam, Crazy bump steer but corners like a dream. I can take exit ramps at 55-60mph if I needed to. Rides fine on smooth pavement. I’m going to change the stabilizer soon and I was thinking of going back to the stock sport shocks and front springs. Front end is tight so no issue there. Is my crappy ride due to the fact that I don’t have the 200 lbs steel bumper and winch combo that the front shock/springs were spec for of the other gladiator?

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[Zachattack50]

Going up some deffinatly changed your caster, which heavily affects bump steer. The stabilizer is just a bandaid. Also what air pressure are you running, and what load rating are the tires. Both will affect the "bouncy" feel, and exaggerate bump steer.

 

[Woosah]

Seems like you lost caster with the lift. Maybe consider the Mopar lower control arms and get some caster back. Cheap, easy to do in your driveway, don’t even need to jack up the jeep or take a tire off, but arguably easier if you do.

 

[GuzziMoto]

Any change in suspension that increases the ride height would reduce the caster. Caster is what makes your Jeep stable, what makes it want to drive straight. Too little caster leads to stability issues and faster steering. So it sounds like you have some of that. As @Woosah said, an easy way to add caster back is to install a set of Mopar longer lower control arms.
Another aspect that might be affecting you is if you upgraded from smaller tires to 35" tires you will find that the 35's don't need as much air pressure to carry the weight of the Jeep. Larger tires typically need less air pressure to carry the same amount of weight. Usually with 35's you want 30 psi or less in the tires, I find 28psi works well for me, but exactly how low would depend in part on what tires and what their load range is.
As @Zachattack50 said, the steering stabilizer is just a band-aid. It can help hide bad steering, but it is better to actually fix steering issues. You should be able to drive down the road without a steering stabilizer and be fine. If you can't, something is not right.

 

[Flyinarmbar]

Any change in suspension that increases the ride height would reduce the caster. Caster is what makes your Jeep stable, what makes it want to drive straight. Too little caster leads to stability issues and faster steering. So it sounds like you have some of that. As @Woosah said, an easy way to add caster back is to install a set of Mopar longer lower control arms.
Another aspect that might be affecting you is if you upgraded from smaller tires to 35" tires you will find that the 35's don't need as much air pressure to carry the weight of the Jeep. Larger tires typically need less air pressure to carry the same amount of weight. Usually with 35's you want 30 psi or less in the tires, I find 28psi works well for me, but exactly how low would depend in part on what tires and what their load range is.
As @Zachattack50 said, the steering stabilizer is just a band-aid. It can help hide bad steering, but it is better to actually fix steering issues. You should be able to drive down the road without a steering stabilizer and be fine. If you can't, something is not right.

Very interesting. Thank you for explaining that so clearly

Any change in suspension that increases the ride height would reduce the caster. Caster is what makes your Jeep stable, what makes it want to drive straight. Too little caster leads to stability issues and faster steering. So it sounds like you have some of that. As @Woosah said, an easy way to add caster back is to install a set of Mopar longer lower control arms.
Another aspect that might be affecting you is if you upgraded from smaller tires to 35" tires you will find that the 35's don't need as much air pressure to carry the weight of the Jeep. Larger tires typically need less air pressure to carry the same amount of weight. Usually with 35's you want 30 psi or less in the tires, I find 28psi works well for me, but exactly how low would depend in part on what tires and what their load range is.
As @Zachattack50 said, the steering stabilizer is just a band-aid. It can help hide bad steering, but it is better to actually fix steering issues. You should be able to drive down the road without a steering stabilizer and be fine. If you can't, something is not right.

crazy question, if I was to go with the steel bumper and winch, that would change my weight and effectively bring me down to an acceptable caster as the original gladiator was spec’t with this.

 

[WambliSka]

Before you do any of this I'd go to a dealer and test drive a Rubicon and see if that's the ride you want. They ride and drive differently from your average Sport because they are factory configured for actual off-road performance, as in rock crawling at low speed, so everything else as far as ride is concerned will be a compromise. I lived in Upstate New York for years and you couldn't pay me to run a Rubicon down the LIE or the QBE.

Personally I would have done this before you bought the take-off gear. Since your off-roading is highly unlikely to need steel bumpers and winch (unless you are just going for the "look") I don't know if the expense is warranted and you want the degraded MPGs this is all going to cost you for road/highway use when really just about any set of road springs and shocks will work on grassy roads.

By the way if all you were looking to do was eliminate the rake, level the Jeep and throw bigger tires under it a $100 leveling kit would have accomplished this for you in about an hour worth of house garage wrenching.

 

[Woosah]

Very interesting. Thank you for explaining that so clearly

crazy question, if I was to go with the steel bumper and winch, that would change my weight and effectively bring me down to an acceptable caster as the original gladiator was spec’t with this.

You sure could try! But alternatively, control arms are like $60-$80 each. A winch and bumper are thousands. I have a rubicon with steel bumper and a winch, and it still wandered. Adding the mopar control arms was so cheap that it was worth it “just to see”. I had them in about 2 hours. Fixed the wandering completely. So, all that to say, your money your ride, your time.

 

[Flyinarmbar]

Before you do any of this I'd go to a dealer and test drive a Rubicon and see if that's the ride you want. They ride and drive differently from your average Sport because they are factory configured for actual off-road performance, as in rock crawling at low speed, so everything else as far as ride is concerned will be a compromise. I lived in Upstate New York for years and you couldn't pay me to run a Rubicon down the LIE or the QBE.

Personally I would have done this before you bought the take-off gear. Since your off-roading is highly unlikely to need steel bumpers and winch (unless you are just going for the "look") I don't know if the expense is warranted and you want the degraded MPGs this is all going to cost you for road/highway use when really just about any set of road springs and shocks will work on grassy roads.

By the way if all you were looking to do was eliminate the rake, level the Jeep and throw bigger tires under it a $100 leveling kit would have accomplished this for you in about an hour worth of house garage wrenching.

Thank you for the input. I drive from Long Island to greenfield center right outside lake George probably once or twice a month. It’s not too bad on the thruway but the taconic is a disaster. That road sucks.i will probably do the lower control arms and see how it rides. Seems like a pretty easy job. I kept the original front springs so, so if decide too go back to that with a leveling kit I’d grab the sport shocks as well. By the way the tires are load range E.
10 ply 35” Terra grabbers. Thank you for all the advice.

 

[GuzziMoto]

Thank you for the input. I drive from Long Island to greenfield center right outside lake George probably once or twice a month. It’s not too bad on the thruway but the taconic is a disaster. That road sucks.i will probably do the lower control arms and see how it rides. Seems like a pretty easy job. I kept the original front springs so, so if decide too go back to that with a leveling kit I’d grab the sport shocks as well. By the way the tires are load range E.
10 ply 35” Terra grabbers. Thank you for all the advice.

The key question is what air pressure are you running in your 35" tires. That can make a larger difference in ride than the suspension changes. As a rough guess, those tires should be around 28psi. Being load range E is not ideal, that generally means the tires have a stiffer construction, with less give in the sidewalls. That works against a softer ride.

There are two different aspects at play here. They do inter-connect, but they are two different aspects.
There is stability, the Jeeps tendency to drive straight vs wandering. And there is the ability of the tires and suspension to absorb bumps.
Caster and any loss of caster affects the stability, the tendency for the Jeep to drive straight.
You may have lost some caster, if your Jeep now sits higher suspension-wise you have lost caster (note, any increase in height from the larger tires is not a factor in this). If you have lost caster, or even if you just want your Jeep to be more stable, running the longer lower front control arms as mentioned will help with that. Another option is adjustable lower front control arms. But for a primarily street drive Jeep where you aren't really needing the extra performance, the Mopar longer arms should be fine.
As to the tires, larger tires can bring their own baggage. First and foremost is typically larger tires need less air pressure to carry the same weight. Plus your larger tires are a higher load rating, and in my experience Nitto tires don't ride as well as some other options. To an extent, it isn't going to ride as well as it did before, just from those tires. Will it ride well enough to make you happy? That depends.
As to the Rubicon suspension, while I kinda' agree with @WambliSka that Rubicon suspension is not always the best suspension, in general Rubicon suspension is generally better than the base Sport suspension. There are better aftermarket shocks and springs you can get, but if you get a good deal on Rubicon take-offs that might be worth it. I mean, I would not install Rubicon suspension even if it was free, but that is just me. You do you.

 

[Zachattack50]

Those load range E's are going to hurt the ride ALOT, especially if your over 30 psi. Even then, they will be aggressive.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Did the tires come at the same time as the suspension changes?

I have load range E on mine. It rides pretty good. Others have also said it rides good.

 

[GuzziMoto]

Depending on exactly which 35" Nitto TerraGrappler you have, it is probably rated to carry over 3,700 lbs PER TIRE. That is a lot of load capacity for a vehicle that has a GVWR in the 6,000 lb range. One tire could carry well over half the max weight of the vehicle.
Anyway, as mentioned, make sure your tire pressure is right. The factory tire pressure on the door jam is not the correct pressure for those tires. A basic math job says that those tires can carry 3700lb each at 65 psi, so to carry 1600 lbs each ( a quarter of the GVWR) they would need about 28 psi. And odds are you are nowhere near the GVWR, so likely you need even less air pressure in them for regular day to day use.

That is all assuming the tires you have a load index rating of 126.

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