Gladiator gas octane?

[Gruffid]

Or you could switch to Cetane. ?

Sponsored

 

[CerOf]

Gasoline is pretty well regulated nowadays in the US so this just isn't true anymore. In fact the unbranded gas stations buy the same gas as the branded gas stations, they just aren't locked into any one brand so they can buy from whoever is selling cheapest today. So John Doe's Gas N Stuff might buy from Exxon on Monday and Shell on Tuesday but they are getting the same gas that is being sold at Exxon or Shell.

Where you may run into issues with smaller lower volume owner operator stations is with maintenance on the pumps and tanks. Filters might not get changed as often, leaks might get ignored, stuff like that. But that goes for both branded and unbranded gas stations. You are less likely to run into issues at a Wawa or a Sheetz (unbranded) then some hole in the wall Sunoco or Exxon (branded). Busier, well maintained stores are more likely to be taking care of things you can't see. So don't look at the name on the gas sign, look at the condition of the facilities.

Exactly what he said.

Stations pretty much buy their gas all from the same wholesalers. The only difference is the additive package.
Shell adds their proprietary package.
Mobile/Exxon uses their’s.
Etc...

I believe pretty much every gas station has a water trap and a veeder root type system that has alarms and monitors for water content, and other things.

 

[Munkey Boy]

While the gas is regulated and comes from essentially the same tap, what we don't know is how long the fuel has been stored. Gas has a shelf life, and in order to keep the spice flowing it must be strategically stored to await distribution. The nonbranded gas stations and Costco buy their gas from their competitors. It would be a very poor business decision on the wholesalers part to sell their freshest juice to the guys competing against themselves and their franchisees. It is regulated, it essentially comes from the same place, and it all pretty much meets and/or exceeds the government standards; however, if it's already halfway to rotten, I would recommend that it be left on the shelf. Even if the station is clean, all the pumps are well maintained, weights and measures are perfect, the store has ALL flavors of Corn-nuts not just original and ranch even though we all pick the ranch anyways, and the squeegee doesn't resemble my dogs' chew toy, if it's old, crappy fuel running through a clean filter, it's still old, crappy fuel. Your Gladiator will probably never notice the difference as like all vehicles it has multiple systems to compensate. Plus, most people replenish their tanks every week or every other week. Even the old crap isn't given enough time to lacquer up if it's a once a month fill up. Fuel quality is a relative term that unfortunately and somewhat conveniently leaves the variable of time out of the equation.

We seem to be covering multiple issues here in general terms. As to the octane level, run the lowest your engine doesn't knock with. As for gas quality and longevity, there are way too many variables and proprietary corporate secrets to answer. The easiest solution I have found to avoid question reliably is to use name brand fuels. And if an engine is going to sit, use a stabilizer. Regarding ethanol, in cars it's great but in small engines it's evil. Breaks down faster, attracts moisture, and worst of all burns hotter. And in something like a chainsaw going full bore at 14,000 rpm, pistons fuse to the cylinder with that much heat and you have yourself a boat anchor. I respectfully disagree as to the fuel being the same as my experience, and my nose, over the past forty+ years have smelled otherwise. The gas I get here from the Shell and 76 stations lasts much longer than the stuff from Costco or Mike's even though it likely came from the same refinery. As to their efficiency, I definitely haven't a clue. I put it in the tank and I go. Again, too many variables; cold day, idiots in a Buick in front of me driving five miles an hour under the speed limit, no cops in sight, sale on ranch flavored Corn-nuts, you name it. I think the best solution is to learn to listen to your engine, she knows what she wants and she'll be sure to let you know what she doesn't. There's and analogy there, but it escapes me.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Gasoline doesn't sit long enough to matter in the channel. That's a legend. About the worst that happens is that the winter blend isn't used up fast enough in the spring and you still end up with some winter blend in warm weather. Yeah, there's a TSB about that because covid dropped gasoline use enough that there was gas left from winter.
Now here's the good part - OCTANE does NOT disappear with sitting - and the most gas would be "sitting" would be a couple months. Won't impact octane.

Octane is NOT volatility like some have said. It has ZERO to do with how volatile the gas is, light parts, etc. Not a thing.
Octane is the resistance to SELF-IGNITION - and it's generally due to longer more complex molecules - those cause it to be less likely to self-ignite with heat and pressure.
Octane is one of the most misunderstood things there is about gasoline. There's more BS floating around out there based on what people here or were told and so on.
I researched this years ago - in part because it was part of my automotive college education, but also because I was interested in higher compression performance engines way back and kept hearing things that made no sense - and it got worse after a certain figure invented the internet.

Ethanol burns cooler as one advantage, but it also has a much higher theoretical octane value. How high? About the best that can be done is educated guesses - which generally hang around 110, 111, I've seen as high as 114. Why no solid number for sure? Because the standards set in stone for measuring octane use a CARBURETED engine and you can't run the exact same carburetor and jetting with ethanol as with gasoline so it can't be compared directly. So they look at the impact ethanol has when added to gasoline and extrapolate what the ethanol's octane must be in order to raise that of gasoline the amount it does with the quantities used.
It has lower BTU content - so yes, lower mpg, but you also get a better burn, more power (look at the programming that's come out for the 3.6 - tuned to run E85 and getting fair power gains)

Myth that costco has older gas due to the distributors not selling fresh stuff to them. You can't differentiate. Hey, this is the old stuff, we'll sell it to Costco! Doesn't work that way. (I live near multiple pipelines and distribution centers and used to be friends with a gal in the industry.....)

I have had nothing but good luck buying gas from any resource here in Iowa - Caseys, HyVee, Cosco, Fleet Farm, you name it. Never have seen a difference with my trucks.
About the only time I noticed a difference was when I had my 70 Javelin - and it did better, less pinging, ran nicer, on WalMart 93 octane 10% ethanol - and yes, I run 10% in everything I own and always have from shortly after it was introduced in Iowa. I run it in lawn tractors, snow blowers, any car or truck I've ever owned. I stopped for a while with my 73 because I was having a ton of trouble with it and bought two new Edelbrock carbs for it and for the warranty period, I followed the book - but once out of warranty, went back. The issue turned out to be the original Edelbrock carbs. These are fine now.

And as far as old gas - the gas in my SX4 is over a year old now and the car runs fine. I never drove it enough last year to run the gas out of it. I can turn the key to start, the engine spins perhaps once or twice and it's running.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

what do folks mean about "ping"

Ping, knock, rattle, sounding like keys or rocks in a can, all terms for the sonic "boom" in the combustion chamber that resonates in the block - sounding like a rattle or ping.
It's the collision of two wave fronts in the combustion chamber that result in a huge sound wave hitting the block making the sound.

 

[sdtkeld]

The company I work for buys it off the pipeline. We pay the hauler to transport it from the terminal to our stations. I can’t imagine it sits long because during gas shortages we often have to get it from a more distant terminal due to the one twenty miles away being out.

 

[Gobi-Wan Kenobi]

While the gas is regulated and comes from essentially the same tap, what we don't know is how long the fuel has been stored. Gas has a shelf life, and in order to keep the spice flowing it must be strategically stored to await distribution. The nonbranded gas stations and Costco buy their gas from their competitors. It would be a very poor business decision on the wholesalers part to sell their freshest juice to the guys competing against themselves and their franchisees. It is regulated, it essentially comes from the same place, and it all pretty much meets and/or exceeds the government standards; however, if it's already halfway to rotten, I would recommend that it be left on the shelf. Even if the station is clean, all the pumps are well maintained, weights and measures are perfect, the store has ALL flavors of Corn-nuts not just original and ranch even though we all pick the ranch anyways, and the squeegee doesn't resemble my dogs' chew toy, if it's old, crappy fuel running through a clean filter, it's still old, crappy fuel. Your Gladiator will probably never notice the difference as like all vehicles it has multiple systems to compensate. Plus, most people replenish their tanks every week or every other week. Even the old crap isn't given enough time to lacquer up if it's a once a month fill up. Fuel quality is a relative term that unfortunately and somewhat conveniently leaves the variable of time out of the equation.

We seem to be covering multiple issues here in general terms. As to the octane level, run the lowest your engine doesn't knock with. As for gas quality and longevity, there are way too many variables and proprietary corporate secrets to answer. The easiest solution I have found to avoid question reliably is to use name brand fuels. And if an engine is going to sit, use a stabilizer. Regarding ethanol, in cars it's great but in small engines it's evil. Breaks down faster, attracts moisture, and worst of all burns hotter. And in something like a chainsaw going full bore at 14,000 rpm, pistons fuse to the cylinder with that much heat and you have yourself a boat anchor. I respectfully disagree as to the fuel being the same as my experience, and my nose, over the past forty+ years have smelled otherwise. The gas I get here from the Shell and 76 stations lasts much longer than the stuff from Costco or Mike's even though it likely came from the same refinery. As to their efficiency, I definitely haven't a clue. I put it in the tank and I go. Again, too many variables; cold day, idiots in a Buick in front of me driving five miles an hour under the speed limit, no cops in sight, sale on ranch flavored Corn-nuts, you name it. I think the best solution is to learn to listen to your engine, she knows what she wants and she'll be sure to let you know what she doesn't. There's and analogy there, but it escapes me.

Have you ever seen a fuel depot where the trucks fill up before heading to the gas stations? There are giant tanks that they fill the tanker trucks from and the branded and unbranded trucks are lined up and fill from the same tank one after another. They aren't selling old gas to the unbranded stations and fresh gas to the branded stations. Nothing sits in those tanks for more then a week or two max, usually only a day or two.

You could potentially end up with gas sitting in the tanks at a gas station for a while if it is very slow, but most stations turn over their inventory in under 2 weeks. Some busy stations turn over their entire inventory daily.

Gas does have a shelf life. Over time the octane rating drops. But the department of weights and measure regularly tests the octane rating at every gas station and if they are not selling gas at the advertised rating or higher they get shut down. The shelf life of gas with ethanol in it is shorter because ethanol absorbs water, but even gas with ethanol is good for about 3-6 months on average.

 

[Riccochet]

The gas is all the same. It's the additive package that's mixed in at the distributor that's different. The additives are mixed in as it's being pumped in to a trailer for delivery to a gas station.

So, yeah, you're getting the same gas at a Shell, BP, Wawa, Quiktrip, etc. It's the additives that are different.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Have you ever seen a fuel depot where the trucks fill up before heading to the gas stations? There are giant tanks that they fill the tanker trucks from and the branded and unbranded trucks are lined up and fill from the same tank one after another. They aren't selling old gas to the unbranded stations and fresh gas to the branded stations. Nothing sits in those tanks for more then a week or two max, usually only a day or two.

You could potentially end up with gas sitting in the tanks at a gas station for a while if it is very slow, but most stations turn over their inventory in under 2 weeks. Some busy stations turn over their entire inventory daily.

Gas does have a shelf life. Over time the octane rating drops. But the department of weights and measure regularly tests the octane rating at every gas station and if they are not selling gas at the advertised rating or higher they get shut down. The shelf life of gas with ethanol in it is shorter because ethanol absorbs water, but even gas with ethanol is good for about 3-6 months on average.

Higher octane gas lasts longer. Octane won't appreciably drop if the temperatures are stable and the container isn't open. Evaporation is the issue - if it can't evaporate or pull humidity in, you won't notice a problem with octane.
Clarification - I should have said the shorter chains resist self-ignition, not the longer. Longer chains tend to oxidize more easily - they'll combine with oxygen more readily and thus self-ignite under high temperatures and pressures. Shorter chains resist. I got in a hurry and typed it wrong. Mind working faster than fingers and got into the next thought and mixed two things up.
I was thinking of more COMPLEX, chain branching. Longer molecules have lower octane while shorter molecules and branched molecules have higher octane.
The shorter molecular chains are more resistant to self-ignition, and it's those that evaporate more easily - there's where you get trouble.
But in a tank that's not open to breathing air in and out - not able to easily let the light parts out and let humidity in - over a few months you have no trouble. People who have power equipment and boats and so on that have caps vented to the atmosphere have troubles while those who have gas stored in sealed containers won't see octane loss like those with boat tanks and lawn equipment or a classic car (your 1969 Camaro, for example) will see losses and more fuel trouble. So as far as octane, fuel life, and other stuff - "it depends" - sealed it will be fine for months as long as it can't evaporate into the air and pull humid air into the container. Sealed - no troubles. Our trucks have semi-sealed systems if you compare it to my old outboard tank of the fuel tank on my Javelin. Those are open - evaporation and heat causes pressure, it's vented out so the light parts and short molecules are lost, then in the cool of the night, it pulls in 90% humidity air, gum and varnish and more trouble. Keep the cap on your JT's tank for best results.

Here is something fun - found this out there on a oil company page -
87 octane fuels tend to be less refined and contain more unstable hydrocarbons. As the months pass during storage these unstable components react to form gums, varnishes and lower octane hydrocarbons.
93 octane fuels are more refined and contain more stable hydrocarbons. These stable hydrocarbons can last 2-3 times longer than 87 octane fuel.

This should answer a whole lot of questions about "it's better at this station than that station" or "why do I not have trouble but you do" with the SAME octane fuel - OCTANE DISTRIBUTION IN THE FUEL->
The combination of vehicle and engine can result in specific requirements
for octane that depend on the fuel. If the octane is distributed differently
throughout the boiling range of a fuel, then engines can knock on one brand
of 87 (RON+MON)/2, but not on another brand. This "octane distribution" is
especially important when sudden changes in load occur, such as high load,
full throttle, acceleration. The fuel can segregate in the manifold, with
the very volatile fraction reaching the combustion chamber first and, if
that fraction is deficient in octane, then knock will occur until the less
volatile, higher octane fractions arrive [27,28].

Some fuel specifications include delta RONs, to ensure octane distribution
throughout the fuel boiling range was consistent. Octane distribution was
seldom a problem with the alkyl lead compounds, as the tetra methyl lead
and tetra ethyl lead octane volatility profiles were well characterised, but
it can be a major problem for the new, reformulated, low aromatic gasolines,
as MTBE boils at 55C, whereas ethanol boils at 78C. Drivers have discovered
that an 87 (RON+MON)/2 from one brand has to be substituted with an 89
(RON+MON)/2 of another, and that is because of the combination of their
driving style, engine design, vehicle mass, fuel octane distribution, fuel
volatility, and the octane-enhancers used.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The gas is all the same. It's the additive package that's mixed in at the distributor that's different. The additives are mixed in as it's being pumped in to a trailer for delivery to a gas station.

So, yeah, you're getting the same gas at a Shell, BP, Wawa, Quiktrip, etc. It's the additives that are different.

It's either mixed in at time of fill or in some cases, it's added and they rely on the mixing to happen during transport. Two ways the additives get in there.

And on the "Costco" bunk - here's why Costco and Fleet Farm and others sell gas 20 cents cheaper - it's a loss leader. Simple. Cheap gas gets you there, oh, but if I go in and shop I get a coupon good for another 4 cents off (Fleet Farm). They'll sell fuel at a loss, or at least little to no profit because gas is not their business - selling stuff is. Costco doesn't make their money on the gas, it's the same gas as anyone else sells. But they are a discount club - gas gets you there!
When I was growing up, a gas station was a gas station - they may sell cigarettes, beer and cheap sunglasses, but gas was the business - often with a shop on the side where they sold and fixed tires and did oil changes. Gas was their business.
Now it's the convenience items that make their money - beer, a bottle of pop for $1.90 (while it's 50 cents in a grocery store), cigarettes, a bag of chips that's mostly air for a buck, candy bars, oh, and a gallon of milk that's 5 bucks while it's 4 at a grocery store.
I worked in the same building as Don Lamberti (founder of Casey's General Stores) for a few months and their money is not gasoline - it's pizza, milk, bread, beer and cigarettes.
So extrapolate that out to a huge discount club like Costco - gas isn't their money, not their bread and butter - it's to get you there. They sell the same gas cheaper because they want you to drive to the store - hey, while we're here getting gas for 20 cents cheaper than anyone else, let's go in and shop and spend real money.
Fleet Farm is similar - go inside and buy and you get a 4 cent a gallon coupon - and use their credit card and you get money back in the form of a gift card, good only at Fleet Farm. They get you in and get you spending by selling gas cheap.

 

[Munkey Boy]

This is all good to hear. Seriously! I am not someone so proud to be stuck in my views. So, as a disclaimer, I enjoy differing opinions. And cheers to ya'll! It is very welcome.

I think we all agree that the gas you get out of every pump will not affect any vehicle used regularly, octane level should be based on whether your engine knocks or not. So for the sake of the initial question posed by the thread, we're all on the same page.

However, the question of quality is where we differ. My experience tells me that the gas is different by a factor of time. Where I live in a low volume region, the gas from Costco, ARCO, and all the ma-and-pa's consistently will not last more than 30 days. If it comes from the same spigot, then the stuff from Shell, Chevron, and 76 here should also expire in that same time; yet it doesn't and usually lasts up to five or six months. Bill's post above explains a wonderful amount of info that can explain the discrepancy and Riccochet's above that covers another variable of the proprietary additives that covers the time factor I see. I will happily concede that it is different per volume and regional use, but Prescott AZ is small and the gas here sucks. If Costco and unbrandeds elsewhere work and last, I think that's the ultimate conclusion: find the station that works for your vehicle, and any other engines you have, and stick with it. Outside that, it's essentially a crap shoot. But trial and a LOT of error has told me to avoid Costco gas here in Prescott. And pallets of SPAM for $2.99.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This is all good to hear. Seriously! I am not someone so proud to be stuck in my views. So, as a disclaimer, I enjoy differing opinions. And cheers to ya'll! It is very welcome.

I think we all agree that the gas you get out of every pump will not affect any vehicle used regularly, octane level should be based on whether your engine knocks or not. So for the sake of the initial question posed by the thread, we're all on the same page.

However, the question of quality is where we differ. My experience tells me that the gas is different by a factor of time. Where I live in a low volume region, the gas from Costco, ARCO, and all the ma-and-pa's consistently will not last more than 30 days. If it comes from the same spigot, then the stuff from Shell, Chevron, and 76 here should also expire in that same time; yet it doesn't and usually lasts up to five or six months. Bill's post above explains a wonderful amount of info that can explain the discrepancy and Riccochet's above that covers another variable of the proprietary additives that covers the time factor I see. I will happily concede that it is different per volume and regional use, but Prescott AZ is small and the gas here sucks. If Costco and unbrandeds elsewhere work and last, I think that's the ultimate conclusion: find the station that works for your vehicle, and any other engines you have, and stick with it. Outside that, it's essentially a crap shoot. But trial and a LOT of error has told me to avoid Costco gas here in Prescott. And pallets of SPAM for $2.99.

I got 4 LED shop lights at Costco for 17 bucks each while similar lights at Harbor Freight were about 20 each. They had pallets of those lights. I wish I had gotten more and gotten rid of the old fluorescent lights that won't come on when it's 10 degrees in the garage.

There is a TSB from FCA that addresses issues with the JT in the spring of 2020. They said it was due to winter blend fuel being left over in the warmer weather due to the lower fuel usage thanks to the virus. I know a tank of gas lasts me twice as long as it used to and my wife now fills her Jeep up maybe once a month. It's been 2 weeks since her Jeep has even seen sunlight (or since it's Iowa and the winter sun seldom shines, "daylight")

Suffice it to say - octane is a complex subject. Your experiences not just may vary, it's safe to say that they usually WILL vary. Look at the one example I gave of the octane at different temperatures and other factors - that means 87 to one person isn't always 87 to the next person, depending........ on many things.

Top tier gas is better, that's pretty much accepted. OF course different locations, different station equipment, sales volume, MANAGEMENT and other factors can play into that. Just because the meals at the Phoenix "Joe's Steak House" are second to none anywhere doesn't mean the meals at the San Francisco "Joe's Steak House" will be worth a crap or even worth feeding a dog you aren't really proud of. LOCAL management, local talent, local "we keep it clean and fresh" and other factors.
The bathrooms at a QuickTrip in this part of town may be spotless while those at another part of town stink, have sticky floors and there's no TP in the stalls.
At least with gas, there are some standards and testing is done. But - shop and find what works for YOU and YOUR truck and YOUR driving habits.

I TRY to not buy from stations out in the sticks where when you drive by - there's no one there at all but a single car that belongs to the one guy running the place. If I have to wait in line, that's ok - it just means that there's no problems or people haven't found out about them yet LOL.

 

[MrZappo]

After all of this reading, and all the good points made, I figure that I now have one thing to be thankful for ...

The JT gets such shitty mileage and has such a small tank that we all have far less concerns about gas going bad than other less fortunate people ...

My neighbor running 87 in his prius is really in trouble !!!

Heck, I fill up 22 gallons (Sorry that's impossible contrary to the placard) I meant 18 ! I then drive for a few days and I need gas again !!! This truck turns over fuel fast and thank god that it does !

So, in these uncertain pandemic times where driving days are few and far between, we can all rest assured that we have purchased the perfect vehicle for the task at hand...

And to think that the dealer didn't use that as a selling point is just beyond me ...

 

[Jeffg]

I run 86 with 10%E. It's a jeep. If it ain't running on regular, it ain't.

 

[Riccochet]

I run 86 with 10%E. It's a jeep. If it ain't running on regular, it ain't.

Good thing you didn't wait for the 392 version. Premium only.

Sponsored