Harbor Freight Badland Apex 12k Synthetic Winch on Sale

[ShadowsPapa]

People have been beating the snot out of this winch for quite a while, reviews are very good. There's a lot of comments out there from people who have truly used it and used it hard to get out of a spot. It's done well. The one fellow messed his up when his winch plate BENT under the pressure, but the winch itself was ok save for a crack in the top cover due to the stress of the winch plate BENDING.

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[sdk131]

I've been looking at winches. Only ones I can find that are still US made with US steel are the Warn Zeon and XP series. Everything else is made in china....man, I can't imagine being a place where you legit need your winch and it doesnt work because the chinese motor or chinese steel gears or chinese electronics fail mid pull.

Maybe I'm making too big a deal out of it.

I think it really depends on how much the "brand" chose to pay the chinese factory. There is absolutely good and even great stuff coming out of plants in China.....but it depends on what price point that the buyer (the brand like Warn or whoever else) told the factory to meet. If they factory was told to make it to hit a low price point.....well they cut corners somewhere at the factory.

 

[KurtP]

I think it really depends on how much the "brand" chose to pay the chinese factory. There is absolutely good and even great stuff coming out of plants in China.....but it depends on what price point that the buyer (the brand like Warn or whoever else) told the factory to meet. If they factory was told to make it to hit a low price point.....well they cut corners somewhere at the factory.

I don't disagree with that. I guess my point is you won't know if they did until you're winching yourself out of a hole and the shit breaks. If you're out there alone, you're proper fucked at that point. I'd love to save over 50% by not getting a ZEON winch, but I'm just not confident that these companies are holding tight enough QC on the chinese plants. It would be helpful if they would comment more on it. "hey, we have X number of US employees at china plant Y to monitor the following factors ABC. When the winches arrive to the US, all get evaluated for 123, and random batch samples for 456" but they don't. They talk up the marketing speak to the features and the horsepower when what we really need to know is "will this thing get me out of the hole when I need it to."

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I think it really depends on how much the "brand" chose to pay the chinese factory. There is absolutely good and even great stuff coming out of plants in China.....but it depends on what price point that the buyer (the brand like Warn or whoever else) told the factory to meet. If they factory was told to make it to hit a low price point.....well they cut corners somewhere at the factory.

The days of "all stuff from China is junk" are LONG over. You yourself can go buy a factory there, operate and run it as you see fit, even make quality stuff, still a ton cheaper than here due to taxes and labor costs. I learned a whole lot about how and where things are made, the differences in who owns what, and so on while in Korea in 2019

Many of these factories are NOT "Chinese plants" - they are located there to save tax money and labor costs, but they are owned and operated by Americans. You'd be amazed at the number of "Americans" living and working there. Rumor has it that my youngest son is there working. COL is LOW there - so are the costs to make things. So you can get items just as good, sometimes even better, because here they cut corners due to labor costs. There, they don't have to.
Old fashioned thinking is so far off these days. Some of these outfits are not "Chinese factories" they are American factories, just located there to save money.

 

[sdk131]

Rumor has it that my youngest son is there working. COL is LOW there - so are the costs to make things. So you can get items just as good, sometimes even better, because here they cut corners due to labor costs. There, they don't have to.
Old fashioned thinking is so far off these days. Some of these outfits are not "Chinese factories" they are American factories, just located there to save money.

BINGO - rumor has it my brother in law spent years living in Shanghai to be the QC rep/troubleshooting engineer for his very recognizable big name US comapny. Can't elaborate more but he even described in great detail why he would have preferred the units coming from the chinese factory.

 

[PyrPatriot]

The days of "all stuff from China is junk" are LONG over. You yourself can go buy a factory there, operate and run it as you see fit, even make quality stuff, still a ton cheaper than here due to taxes and labor costs. I learned a whole lot about how and where things are made, the differences in who owns what, and so on while in Korea in 2019

Many of these factories are NOT "Chinese plants" - they are located there to save tax money and labor costs, but they are owned and operated by Americans. You'd be amazed at the number of "Americans" living and working there. Rumor has it that my youngest son is there working. COL is LOW there - so are the costs to make things. So you can get items just as good, sometimes even better, because here they cut corners due to labor costs. There, they don't have to.
Old fashioned thinking is so far off these days. Some of these outfits are not "Chinese factories" they are American factories, just located there to save money.

For me and many others it is preferring to buy something that maximizes the number of Americans employed. Of course, quality is the first consideration, I wouldnt subsidize a company of just the prospect of hoping Americans get the benefit of employment and would in theory spend wages in their communities

 

[Jeeperjamie]

I've been looking at winches. Only ones I can find that are still US made with US steel are the Warn Zeon and XP series. Everything else is made in china....man, I can't imagine being a place where you legit need your winch and it doesnt work because the chinese motor or chinese steel gears or chinese electronics fail mid pull.

Maybe I'm making too big a deal out of it.

Ran a older Badlands 9500lb winch on my JKU for 6yrs that came off a car hauler and it was still working when I sold my jeep. Was on my buddies car hauler for 4 to 5 years before he got a 12000lb Badlands and have the 9500lb one to me. It say a good bit of use on my rig and weekly work on his car hauler.

 

[KurtP]

Ran a older Badlands 9500lb winch on my JKU for 6yrs that came off a car hauler and it was still working when I sold my jeep. Was on my buddies car hauler for 4 to 5 years before he got a 12000lb Badlands and have the 9500lb one to me. It say a good bit of use on my rig and weekly work on his car hauler.

That's a good use case right there. I like the features of the Smitty. Looking around to see who all is actually using them hard.

 

[PyrPatriot]

That's a good use case right there. I like the features of the Smitty. Looking around to see who all is actually using them hard.

Which smittybilt and what do you consider hard use?

 

[KurtP]

Which smittybilt and what do you consider hard use?

the 9.5 gen 3. I dont foresee me having hard use like winching to the max load all the time, i just dont want to need it and have it fail because weather or poor quality made it shit the bed.

 

[PyrPatriot]

the 9.5 gen 3. I dont foresee me having hard use like winching to the max load all the time, i just dont want to need it and have it fail because weather or poor quality made it shit the bed.

I have the 10k Gen 2 and have used it a few times to winch, never my own vehicle though. The hardest use was when I had to winch a 4Runner axle-deep in sticky/cake mud, uphill. I was the 3rd, and only successful vehicle to attempt and do so. First was a JKU with a Warn Platinum 12k winch. It's remote's screen broke and the winch couldn't even be started up. Next was a CJ and an unknown brand 9k winch. As the Jeep was too light he attached himself to an anchor point and when winching the 4Runner said it felt like his frame was being stretched. My Sport Max Tow using a snatchblock and pulling at an angle got the 4Runner out. Prior to that my Jeep had been through mud, creeks, and plenty of conditions. At times mud had gotten on the winch but washed off. There are reports the wireless switch on the winch is not actually waterproof/resistant like claimed and people have had to go aftermarket on that part. I have not had any issues.

 

[SargeDiesel]

The days of "all stuff from China is junk" are LONG over. You yourself can go buy a factory there, operate and run it as you see fit, even make quality stuff, still a ton cheaper than here due to taxes and labor costs. I learned a whole lot about how and where things are made, the differences in who owns what, and so on while in Korea in 2019

Many of these factories are NOT "Chinese plants" - they are located there to save tax money and labor costs, but they are owned and operated by Americans. You'd be amazed at the number of "Americans" living and working there. Rumor has it that my youngest son is there working. COL is LOW there - so are the costs to make things. So you can get items just as good, sometimes even better, because here they cut corners due to labor costs. There, they don't have to.
Old fashioned thinking is so far off these days. Some of these outfits are not "Chinese factories" they are American factories, just located there to save money.

@ShadowsPapa... you have helped me several times, so here I I'm looking for another hand... Tring to find solid info a newbie can follow on mounting the Badlands Apex 12K on the oem steel rubicon bumper(2022)... HF sells the mounting plate compatible($-50) with the winch, but I have no ideal if its compatible with the bumper. Also, I am not sure if it makes a difference if its a diesel ? I wonder if the oem bumper has the same issues as your china bumper with fitment ? I searched, but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for... Fast forward = did you ever figure out the best way to route your cables ? Pics ? Thank you sir !

 

[ShadowsPapa]

@ShadowsPapa... you have helped me several times, so here I I'm looking for another hand... Tring to find solid info a newbie can follow on mounting the Badlands Apex 12K on the oem steel rubicon bumper(2022)... HF sells the mounting plate compatible($-50) with the winch, but I have no ideal if its compatible with the bumper. Also, I am not sure if it makes a difference if its a diesel ? I wonder if the oem bumper has the same issues as your china bumper with fitment ? I searched, but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for... Fast forward = did you ever figure out the best way to route your cables ? Pics ? Thank you sir !

The look-alike bumper is identical in every way as far as size, fitment, shape, etc. You can interchange all parts without issue. You can put the wings from the eBay bumper on the MOPAR bumper, you can put the bezels from the MOPAR bumper on the eBay bumper, the bars are the same fit and so on.
If I was doing it again, I'd put washers between the bumper and the winch plate to push the bumper forward about 1/4" and then likely not need to trim anything. Spacing the plate forward with washers may have helped with clearance for the power cable but I got that taken care of pretty easily with some manipulating of how the cable is attached inside that top box, and carefully "bending" the cable by hand when warm and clamping it in place. My cable doesn't touch the grill.

The winch plate doesn't attach to the bumper at all - it should be attached at the frame horns where the bumper attaches to the frame and have braces running down to the frame to support it at the rear and sides - at least these do.

I used heat shrink over the cable where it exits the box, and a clamp holding the cable forward away from the grill.

I did mock-up by bolting the plate to the frame horns on each side, and those two large black bolts attach a bracket to the plate which also bolts to the frame below.

I got everything in place where I wanted it, put a floor jack under the winch plate to hold it in place while I removed the bolts that held it to the front ends of the frame so I could position the bumper. If I had thought ahead or realized the clearance issues between the top of the winch and the bumper, I'd have put washers on the bumper bolts to space it forward from the winch and plate a bit. I may still have needed to trim a bit - and it turned out fine, really.

These are the brackets that hold the rear/sides of the winch plate to the frame ->

I had to trim the "release" or "clutch" lever - if I had left the bar off - no problem, or if I had used the Warn bar which is wider it would not have been any issue. I may buy the warn bar at some point because of better clearance and the fact it sort of closes the open end of the tow hooks, making them more like loops so soft shackles and so forth can't slip off.

Basically, the bumper I have is exactly like the MOPAR labeled bumper in all ways except finish (perhaps some other ways but it's the exact same shape and size) so any issues with one will be an issue with the other.

I have used my winch to pull a car out of a snowy/icy ditch. Wasn't real steep, not a huge load like pulling it out of deep mud with suction, but still, it was working. I truck driver hauling scrap iron pulled up behind me just in case I had to tie my truck to his to prevent my truck sliding on the ice and snow but my truck stayed put. I had parked on a level area with rougher ice and some traction and ran out almost all of my rope.

 

[SargeDiesel]

The look-alike bumper is identical in every way as far as size, fitment, shape, etc. You can interchange all parts without issue. You can put the wings from the eBay bumper on the MOPAR bumper, you can put the bezels from the MOPAR bumper on the eBay bumper, the bars are the same fit and so on.
If I was doing it again, I'd put washers between the bumper and the winch plate to push the bumper forward about 1/4" and then likely not need to trim anything. Spacing the plate forward with washers may have helped with clearance for the power cable but I got that taken care of pretty easily with some manipulating of how the cable is attached inside that top box, and carefully "bending" the cable by hand when warm and clamping it in place. My cable doesn't touch the grill.

The winch plate doesn't attach to the bumper at all - it should be attached at the frame horns where the bumper attaches to the frame and have braces running down to the frame to support it at the rear and sides - at least these do.

I used heat shrink over the cable where it exits the box, and a clamp holding the cable forward away from the grill.

I did mock-up by bolting the plate to the frame horns on each side, and those two large black bolts attach a bracket to the plate which also bolts to the frame below.

I got everything in place where I wanted it, put a floor jack under the winch plate to hold it in place while I removed the bolts that held it to the front ends of the frame so I could position the bumper. If I had thought ahead or realized the clearance issues between the top of the winch and the bumper, I'd have put washers on the bumper bolts to space it forward from the winch and plate a bit. I may still have needed to trim a bit - and it turned out fine, really.

These are the brackets that hold the rear/sides of the winch plate to the frame ->

I had to trim the "release" or "clutch" lever - if I had left the bar off - no problem, or if I had used the Warn bar which is wider it would not have been any issue. I may buy the warn bar at some point because of better clearance and the fact it sort of closes the open end of the tow hooks, making them more like loops so soft shackles and so forth can't slip off.

Basically, the bumper I have is exactly like the MOPAR labeled bumper in all ways except finish (perhaps some other ways but it's the exact same shape and size) so any issues with one will be an issue with the other.

I have used my winch to pull a car out of a snowy/icy ditch. Wasn't real steep, not a huge load like pulling it out of deep mud with suction, but still, it was working. I truck driver hauling scrap iron pulled up behind me just in case I had to tie my truck to his to prevent my truck sliding on the ice and snow but my truck stayed put. I had parked on a level area with rougher ice and some traction and ran out almost all of my rope.

Thank you sir ! Always such detailed and thorough responses. I wasn't knocking the China bumper, I must have miss understood and thought it was potentially the cause of the fitment issues. So the plate attaches to the frame, not the bumper.... ok... so I need a winch plate compatible with JTRD , and then if necessary, drill holes to attach the winch to it ? What plate did you end up using.... ? The Harbor Freight one is a great buy , by price standards, but many reviews of the bending, cracking and comming appart.... but for $50... hard to swallow the others @ $200-$300... but usually get what you pay for... and this is one place its probably advisable not to skimp....

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Thank you sir ! Always such detailed and thorough responses. I wasn't knocking the China bumper, I must have miss understood and thought it was potentially the cause of the fitment issues. So the plate attaches to the frame, not the bumper.... ok... so I need a winch plate compatible with JTRD , and then if necessary, drill holes to attach the winch to it ? What plate did you end up using.... ? The Harbor Freight one is a great buy , by price standards, but many reviews of the bending, cracking and comming appart.... but for $50... hard to swallow the others @ $200-$300... but usually get what you pay for... and this is one place its probably advisable not to skimp....

My bumper came with the plate in the pictures. I agree - you want something stout but then you have to decide if you will ever pull hard enough to bend what you plan on buying. There's a couple of ways to look at these, too - strength where they attach to the frame ends up front - how much meat is there from the mounting pads down to the plate itself, bends make plates stronger, the winch being bolted to the plate make the plate more rigid, especially if you use good bolts and large thick washers - which help reinforce.

I can't see myself actually needing all that 12K - but then I'd rather have too much winch and not have to keep resting it to cool it off, and not have to run all the rope out to get the pulling power I need (and it was cheap and has good reviews)
Anyway, I figured that big winch bolted solidly to the steel plate means there's little "lone plate" left to bend and flex for my own use.
If I ever plan on taking it to where people REALLY abuse even tough Jeeps - I may change my mind and upgrade the plate but I'd bet I'll never bend it.
Some day I have thought of making other lower brackets to connect it to the frame and make those really stout to reinforce the plate even further.

The only HF winch mount I've seen is the universal type that appears to attach to the top of the frame - can't comment on their winch mounts. Maybe there's some other type. Some people in the past have seemed happy with that type.......

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