Heating options in your tent (RTT or ground)

[chorky]

Done alot of backpacking, including multiple in sub-freezing temps, in a ground tent each time (if you believe a rando on the internet).

Please stop using powered heaters in tents.

There is a phrase used here often, "buy once, cry once".

There is specific gear meant to keep you warm, it is not cheap, but it works. There is also gear meant to keep you warm enough to "survive" should you not want to spend enough money for option 1.

Heaters in tents are on borrowed time before someone kills themselves due to CO poisoning or burns down the forest. Both options are bad, and avoidable.

Not all heaters are bad. The specific heater types I outlined in the first post (Propex heaters, diesel heaters and gas heaters) do not put the exhaust into the sleeping space. So its pelnty safe. No chances to die from co poisoning unless you put the exhaust pipe into the tent. This topic is not for the purpose of staying warm as much as it is to reduce condensation.

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[LouisvEarlleJT]

Not all heaters are bad. The specific heater types I outlined in the first post (Propex heaters, diesel heaters and gas heaters) do not put the exhaust into the sleeping space. So its pelnty safe. No chances to die from co poisoning unless you put the exhaust pipe into the tent. This topic is not for the purpose of staying warm as much as it is to reduce condensation.

Ok, not dying of CO poisoning is good, but burning down the woods while overlanding is still a concern with these.

Folks who propose using any kind of heater inside of a tent should not go camping. Hot take. (Ba-dum-ching)

Elimination of condensation can be had by proper ventilation. Wear the right gear, set up the proper sleeping situation for your conditions, open the vents on your tent to allow air flow and condensation issues should mostly be manageable. You’ll never fully remove it as humans are little organic humidifiers lol.

 

[chorky]

Ok, not dying of CO poisoning is good, but burning down the woods while overlanding is still a concern with these.

Folks who propose using any kind of heater inside of a tent should not go camping. Hot take. (Ba-dum-ching)

Elimination of condensation can be had by proper ventilation. Wear the right gear, set up the proper sleeping situation for your conditions, open the vents on your tent to allow air flow and condensation issues should mostly be manageable. You’ll never fully remove it as humans are little organic humidifiers lol.

These are not going to burn down the woods man. maybe you should stick to your big concrete cities. I guess on that same line you are against any and all travel trailer camping too. Or fires of any kind including a propane fire pit - because a open flame of a propane fire is FAR more dangerous than a closed system of a diesel heater, which by the way had a spark arrestor.

Condensation cannot be eliminated in all circumstances. When temperatures are below the dew point, even with all windows fully open, condensation will still occur. It was interesting actually the last camping trip I went on, the first night was pretty cold probably 35 or so, and I had all but one window zipped close. There was zero condensation the next morning. I was expecting the inside of the tent to be quite wet. But the next night it was actually warmer by probably 5 degrees, however I was higher in elevation by about 1500 feet, and the condensation was terrible. I think it was due to the first night temps being above the dew point, and the second night temps being below the dew point, despite the overall temperature increase.

So, I will still be getting a heater.

 

[LouisvEarlleJT]

These are not going to burn down the woods man. maybe you should stick to your big concrete cities. I guess on that same line you are against any and all travel trailer camping too. Or fires of any kind including a propane fire pit - because a open flame of a propane fire is FAR more dangerous than a closed system of a diesel heater, which by the way had a spark arrestor.

Condensation cannot be eliminated in all circumstances. When temperatures are below the dew point, even with all windows fully open, condensation will still occur. It was interesting actually the last camping trip I went on, the first night was pretty cold probably 35 or so, and I had all but one window zipped close. There was zero condensation the next morning. I was expecting the inside of the tent to be quite wet. But the next night it was actually warmer by probably 5 degrees, however I was higher in elevation by about 1500 feet, and the condensation was terrible. I think it was due to the first night temps being above the dew point, and the second night temps being below the dew point, despite the overall temperature increase.

So, I will still be getting a heater.

I mean, not against them, but I also don’t favor them.

Different philosophies of the outdoors, that’s fine.

 

[chorky]

an, not against them, but I also don’t favor them.

Different philosophies of the outdoors,

I would prefer to not use one since it just adds complexity and cost - but I have to have a way to dry out the tent before putting it away.

 

[ttn333]

Done alot of backpacking, including multiple in sub-freezing temps, in a ground tent each time (if you believe a rando on the internet).

Please stop using powered heaters in tents.

There is a phrase used here often, "buy once, cry once".

There is specific gear meant to keep you warm, it is not cheap, but it works. There is also gear meant to keep you warm enough to "survive" should you not want to spend enough money for option 1.

Heaters in tents are on borrowed time before someone kills themselves due to CO poisoning or burns down the forest. Both options are bad, and avoidable.

Just like everything else. Do your due deligence. There's no reason for you to suffer out in the cold (at least for overlanding/car camping). No matter how nice my none heated bags, jackets tents etc are, my face always freezes. Diesel heaters are safe in every way. Don't pipe the exhaust into your tent and make sure you place it on a non flamable surface and you're good to go. It's not complicated.

Also there's new form factor.
forgot the link.

https://hcalory.com/collections/hea...-pro-elevation-display?variant=40900916215851

 

[JeeperFIN]

I have Eberspächer D2 for heating the tent, works much better than the chinese heaters.
I have external thermostat which i put to the tent for the night.
Originally D2 measure the temperature of blow through air. If it sucks the cold outside air, it will be hot in the tent.

-25°C (-13°F) was the coldest weather where i have camped, it kept the Alucab 3.1 warm(ish) during the night.

Heater is in the 40mm ammo box and in the lower picture is the parts which i used for getting the air to the tent.

 

[chorky]

Here's another Diesel Heater install from @JeeperFIN. Nice setup built in an Alucab and ammo can. Looks like the exhaust is routed through the Jeep bed sidewall. Nice job!

I really like this idea you have going on. I would probably find a way to bolt the heater to the roof of the canopy. But I'm really leaning toward a propex heater. Reason being is I think with 2 10 pound propane tanks I would have enough LP for 4 nights, then I dont have to dip into the aux tank. Although that is possible, it does add more complexity running a long fuel line to the heater.

I still can't really find any info on the propex though. There are very few detailed reviews or videos on them.

 

[ttn333]

I really like this idea you have going on. I would probably find a way to bolt the heater to the roof of the canopy. But I'm really leaning toward a propex heater. Reason being is I think with 2 10 pound propane tanks I would have enough LP for 4 nights, then I dont have to dip into the aux tank. Although that is possible, it does add more complexity running a long fuel line to the heater.

I still can't really find any info on the propex though. There are very few detailed reviews or videos on them.

Two 10 lbs tank are pretty cumbersome and heavy. I can get 2 nights per gallon of diesel if I run it all night. It's much easier for me to carry an extra couple of gallons of diesel. The only down side is spillage. I stopped carrying diesel in the heater tank itself. Those tend to splash through the cap air hole and make a mess when offroading.

 

[chorky]

Two 10 lbs tank are pretty cumbersome and heavy. I can get 2 nights per gallon of diesel if I run it all night. It's much easier for me to carry an extra couple of gallons of diesel. The only down side is spillage. I stopped carrying diesel in the heater tank itself. Those tend to splash through the cap air hole and make a mess when offroading.

True, they arent exactly light. But more simple than plumbing into the aux tank for gas. I really am not wanting a diesel heater.

 

[MPMB]

I really like this idea you have going on. I would probably find a way to bolt the heater to the roof of the canopy. But I'm really leaning toward a propex heater. Reason being is I think with 2 10 pound propane tanks I would have enough LP for 4 nights, then I dont have to dip into the aux tank. Although that is possible, it does add more complexity running a long fuel line to the heater.

I still can't really find any info on the propex though. There are very few detailed reviews or videos on them.

I looked into them a few years ago; they seemed more popular over on Expedition Portal and Vanlife-related places. The diesel heaters have become all the rage.

IIRC, you could run a Propex-style heater for at least a week on a standard BBQ-size tank.

But I stumbled onto this: https://www.ferrellgas.com/tank-talk/blog-articles/how-long-can-a-propane-heater-run/

MATHS!

Desired temp change (in F) x cubic feet of space x .133 = BTUs needed

Using my own tent (Tepui Basin), and assuming a 30* starting heat output (w/o knowing laws of thermodynamics), this is what I get:

30* x 119cuft x .133 = 474.81 BTUs

For 8 hours, that'd be 3,799 BTUs.

If you're camping at 0*, then it's 950 BTUs per hour and 7,600 BTUs for 8 hours.

A gallon of propane is 91,000 BTUs and 1 pound of propane is 21,000 BTUs. I think you'd have enough for 4 nights.

Edit add - Propex HS2000 puts out 6483 BTUs, so that's 51,864 BTUs, or just over 1/2 a gallon. If it used that max output for 32 hours, that's 207,456 BTUs, or 2.28 gallons of propane.

Power consumption would be about 183w for 8 hours if it ran continuous.

 

[chorky]

I looked into them a few years ago; they seemed more popular over on Expedition Portal and Vanlife-related places. The diesel heaters have become all the rage.

IIRC, you could run a Propex-style heater for at least a week on a standard BBQ-size tank.

But I stumbled onto this: https://www.ferrellgas.com/tank-talk/blog-articles/how-long-can-a-propane-heater-run/

MATHS!

Desired temp change (in F) x cubic feet of space x .133 = BTUs needed

Using my own tent (Tepui Basin), and assuming a 30* starting heat output (w/o knowing laws of thermodynamics), this is what I get:

30* x 119cuft x .133 = 474.81 BTUs

For 8 hours, that'd be 3,799 BTUs.

If you're camping at 0*, then it's 950 BTUs per hour and 7,600 BTUs for 8 hours.

A gallon of propane is 91,000 BTUs and 1 pound of propane is 21,000 BTUs. I think you'd have enough for 4 nights.

Edit add - Propex HS2000 puts out 6483 BTUs, so that's 51,864 BTUs, or just over 1/2 a gallon. If it used that max output for 32 hours, that's 207,456 BTUs, or 2.28 gallons of propane.

Power consumption would be about 183w for 8 hours if it ran continuous.

This is an awesome resource! I love the (practical) maths. Its funny, in school way back when math was my most hated class... but thats just because it was never taught in a practical way! It was all just memorizing, this times that or that divided by this - totally useless.

It is a little shocking to me that nobody really talks about the propex heater as an option... Revere overland (can't remember the guys name) had one on one of his videos for a little while but there was never any talk about it long term. I get the diesel craze, but I am really set on not needing a third fuel source - diesel. The gas heater is still an available option to me but the propex just is way more simple I think.

Anyway, my maths matches your maths. I decided to do the full math of course, 3 different ways. And then to just consider it at a 3rd way that I normally don't do because it usually doesn't give the full picture - but this time it sorta does. As you said the propex puts out 6483 BTUs per hour. Dividing 32 by 10 (10 hours is how long I likely would have it on each night) brings you to 3.2. So 3.2 nights. Plus that is using 2.28 gallons, where a 10 pound tank holds 2.4 - so there is a reserve amount. The second 10 pound tank then could be used for cooking (and if I ever wanted a little fireplace). So it looks like with cold temps down to zero (realistically I wont camp if its below 15), I can get away with one full tank for 3 nights

To take it a step further, I calculated for both warmer summer temps and colder winter temps. If I did my math right, there is more than enough propane to last a 6 night summer trip plus cooking and the water heater in a 10 pound tank. Same with a 2 night winter trip

 

[HooliganActual]

I have but no dog in this fight but want to express my gratitude to @MPMB and @chorky for the proper use of “MATHS”!!!

lol, not many people seem to know that it’s maths not math

 

[MPMB]

I have but no dog in this fight but want to express my gratitude to @MPMB and @chorky for the proper use of “MATHS”!!!

lol, not many people seem to know that it’s maths not math

Lol.

i’m one of those people who were told in school “you’re going to be a doctor, physicist, engineer, or something based in logic and reasoning.” Yet I can outwrite so many and develop creative projects. Using both sides of my brain is so burdensome. Lol

Only later in life did I develop the need and drive to research into mathematical answers.

 

[chorky]

Looks like he is still using it at times.

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