Help me decide - big tent problems from winter 'storage'

[jeventures]

I was thinking about that possibly. Or even one of these
https://inspiredoverland.com/product-category/roof-top-tents/
But it will still require at least 2 people to remove and reinstall.

For only twice a year I’d bribe my neighbors with beer to help make the swap. I swap a much heavier ikamper twice a year but my helpers are also working in my business so they are kinda obligated to the 5 minute lifting exercise.

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[HooliganActual]

@chorky You have an interesting dilemma and one I agonize over from time to time. As I get older each day and the ailments start to compound, I figure that a day is coming where I will not be able to crawl up a ladder into my RTT; so that has me trying to figure out what is next not unlike your current situation. I've copied your bullets down to share my "machinations":

• just get a new tent
  • Assuming this is my dilemma and I or my wife can no longer climb up into an RTT, the RTT is no longer a viable option due to accessibility and has to be ditched.
• try and build a low cost garage
  • Obviously not pertinent to my scenario, but for your situation the garage is probably worthwhile so that you have a garage for doing more than just storing a tent during the winter. Maybe the shed suggestion by @PuddleJumper could be a nice stopgap; you could literally do a DIY version of some camper jackstands to lift it off versus having to have the overhead structure (which a shed might not provide) to lift it.
  • an example:
• forget the RTT idea and get a ground tent and cot
  • I agree with the critter concern but the reality is that there just aren't that many bear attacks in the US annually. I mean it happens and I always worry it will be to me; but the statistics, according to the NPS, is 1 in 2.1 million. As long as you are smart about your food storage and such, you really shouldn't have to worry. I constantly think about going with this option and transitioning to one of those nice ShiftPod or Overland(ish) style tents rather than a traditional tent. This might be a good option for me personally. The only downside to ground camping is that now you have to find and clear a flat spot big enough in which to set the tent up; the beauty of the RTT is that once I park...that spot is cleared off.
• Go the rout of an all-cab or ovrlnd camper
  • For me, I think this gets ruled out right alongside the RTT because there is climbing involved. Something like the Alu-Cab can still be accessed with the exterior ladder but you can also climb into the bed from inside. For me personally, I have been in an Alu-Cab and made that climb up on stacked boxes inside the bed and I figure that if I no longer have the dexterity to navigate a ladder, I really can't climb up on the inside.
• nix the whole gladiator and look at a JL with Ursa Minor or some other vehicle option
  • This option and the next two really come down to getting a different vehicle altogether. It's really not a bad option, especially if/when your use case changes. Right now, I love my Jeeps because they can take me to camp locations that other vehicles can't but there may come that day where I decide something like a 4WD van (Sportmobile or Sprinter type van) may be easier to get in and out of and will have the requisite camping features. It will just mean not going as far into the back country.
  • However, for this option that you called out, and the next two as well, I will address a "variant" that I have been considering at the end....so stay tuned.
• nix the whole Jeep thing and look at a power wagon with a camper
  • Keep reading below
• use the Gladiator as a standard 'truck' and immediately start building the LJ into the camping/overlanding vehicle
  • Keep reading below

Again, I'll say that I spend time noodling this dilemma myself as I know that day is coming. I've run through the same internal discussions that you've posted (except for the garage thing) and there is one you didn't call out that I have been considering as a very good potential alternative. It even addresses some of your concerns (and mine):

• I still want to go where a Jeep will take me
• I don't want to have to undo/redo a lot of the work I already have in my Gladiator

I've buried the lead long enough: ditch the RTT, reconfigure the bed to make it the sleeping area.

Here's how I would alter my setup:

• Gut the bed removing my entire kitchen setup, fridge, etc. I would likely leave or alter my water tank and leave my house battery in the bed. So essentially what you see in the left side of the below pic would get pulled. The stuff on the right would likely stay but might need reconfigured to fit the plan

• Since I have a rear seat delete, I would take the kitchen setup and mount it on the rear seat delete platform to extend out through the passenger rear door. So imagine this
  
  
  
• Pulling out from this (I'd change the direction of the stove):
  
• Similarly I would put the fridge on the driver side with a pullout slide. Yes it would be a bit of a pain to have them on opposite sides of the vehicle but I haven't thought of a more elegant solution yet.
• Now back to that "empty bed"...the bed just gets configured with something like Goose Gear's Sleep deck and cabinetry setup which you've probably seen pics of already (this one shows Alu-Cab's water tank on the front wall which is interesting)
  
• So now there is storage again, it can convert into a bed platform that a mattress can live on and it is arguable that there is more interior habitat than my current RTT provides.

Sorry for the diatribe but your thread allowed me some "talking therapy" to actually verbalize what's in my head and maybe bounce it off of others. While this may have been some catharsis for me, I know it doesn't solve your dilemma but maybe it offers another "option" to your list or makes you come up with an entirely different option that none of us have mentioned.

 

[chorky]

For only twice a year I’d bribe my neighbors with beer to help make the swap. I swap a much heavier ikamper twice a year but my helpers are also working in my business so they are kinda obligated to the 5 minute lifting exercise.

yeah, and I have done that in the past. I only have one neighbor who is physically capable to help. So it requires two more coworkers. It's a 4 person job. 3 with a struggle. Storing it all winter in my basement seriously hampers my ability to use the basement in the winter for other projects. The entire purpose of this thing from the get go was to NOT be removing things all the time. So having to do so defeats the primary objective (well second to going camping that is). I'm not saying it is not possible, but if I knew that was going to be the situation, I would have done something entirely different from the start. But, it is a solution assuming I can talk people into helping with this.

The caveat is it is a solution only with a new tent. At the end of the day my health issues has me not wanting to use my current tent even though I can clean the fabric. It will come back. I'm already at risk of not making it to 60, I dont want to potentially shorten my remaining 20 years any less.

 

[AmishMike]

So, you say that you have your suspicions. What are they? I have had a RTT for 3 years with no such problems like yours. Heck and company (Torro) that I got mine from went out of business shortly after I got mine.
I like that port you have for heat. It would also work for a/c. Yup, we have a ZeroBreeze that works wonders even in Florida in August.
If you don't get far with them, try to find a fix. Get a new mattress and use water/vinegar 50/50 to clean it, not bleach! You should re-waterproof it after cleaning, the acid in the vinegar will destroy whatever it is coated with. Wash, triple rinse, dry, really dry, retreat, enjoy.

You said that you checked with insurance, home owners or renters? Auto won't cover it but they might.

 

[chorky]

These are some great thoughts. I do appreciate everyone who has chimed in so far, and so quickly, since this is a pretty big deal to me. Cheers to all

@chorky You have an interesting dilemma and one I agonize over from time to time. As I get older each day and the ailments start to compound, I figure that a day is coming where I will not be able to crawl up a ladder into my RTT; so that has me trying to figure out what is next not unlike your current situation. I've copied your bullets down to share my "machinations":

Let me put in some thought on your thoughts lol

• just get a new tent
  • For different reasons than you I really don't want to do this. Because I cannot guarantee that the problem won't be the same again next year. 2500 bucks is a lot of money to chance on an unknown true cause. now if I could talk people into helping me remove it every year I could be convinced to consider this. and if the company gave me a replacement tent for free this is what I would do while finding a long term solution. But just going out and spending more money....eh. That sounds like a waste.
• try and build a low cost garage
  • I have wanted a garage since I purchased this property. I do have a few options that I can consider and reasonably do. Again it would require coworkers and neighbors to assist me in construction and would take 2 summers to keep the cost down. I dont know that I could talk coworkers into spending their summer weekends in helping with this though. I could do much of it myself once main beams were in place. Either way, with cost and planning and material I have already calculated it would take at the quickest 2 full summers to complete. So, that doesn't really help me for the next 2 years. But, this is 100% something I am working on getting as it will serve well! I could have built a garage 2 years ago instead of buying the Gladiator, but then I wouldn't have the Gladiator ha
• forget the RTT idea and get a ground tent and cot
  • This is true, and honestly this is probably the route I will have to go this summer. I have found a 150 dollar tent with a 80 dollar cot that is waterproof that opens and closes just as easily as the fancy gazelle tents - longevity unknown but I would be willing to risk it for a tent that is only 150 bucks. I live and work in griz country, so am well aware of the issues we have here. I have backpacked and tented most of my life, without any issue except for one time a mouse tried to get in my tent and another time I came out of my tent face to face with a bull moose 3' away. But out here, a lot of the state parks, national parks, and even some FS land are trying to outlaw tent camping in the front country due to animals. It's all because of stupid people. But it's been a big point of discussion the last couple years. Pending a free replacement RTT, this will likely be the route I go this summer to at least get outside. So I guess the key point is if a tent is the decision maker between camping and no camping, I choose a tent. But if there is an option to get off the ground and a little higher/safer, getting into my older age, I would opt for that. this summer, unless I get a replacement RTT, it will most likely be a tent.
• Go the rout of an all-cab or ovrlnd camper
  • I really dont want this anyway. It is SO expensive, so heavy, and just not something I'm interested in. If I wanted something like this I would opt for a full size truck and a alaskan camper.
• nix the whole gladiator and look at a JL with Ursa Minor or some other vehicle option
  • Yeah this would be a very big change for sure. I would definitely eat the cost, a very high cost, on accessories and all the time money and research I put into the Gladiator. But, I could likely sell it for more than what I owe, with the option to return it to stock and sell parts that can't transfer to another vehicle, or sell as is and sell the stock parts. And if sold all together and opted to use my little LJ as the off road vehicle, I could get rid of a car payment and put that toward a garage.

As for your point about basically sleeping in the back. That was the first consideration I had. in fact when I got the Gladiator I looked at that option long before even thinking about a RTT. I almost bought the ford ranger with that in mind because it has a 6' bed instead of 5'. And actually I had a thought about that again last year when weights started adding up and I was getting heavy. I ended up not putting too much thought into it because dispite being short I'm too tall to fit in the bed with the canopy and tailgate closed. I could consider one of those truck canopy tents, but like you I would have to find a solution to redo just about everything. The electrical system, the fridge/kitchen, a sleeping pad, the propane system. Man that would be a lot. But, it is an option I probably should look into more to see what options exist that work for me. Like you I do like the gladiator. It is capable and comfortable, and I have invested into it significantly.

So, you say that you have your suspicions. What are they? I have had a RTT for 3 years with no such problems like yours. Heck and company (Torro) that I got mine from went out of business shortly after I got mine.
I like that port you have for heat. It would also work for a/c. Yup, we have a ZeroBreeze that works wonders even in Florida in August.
If you don't get far with them, try to find a fix. Get a new mattress and use water/vinegar 50/50 to clean it, not bleach! You should re-waterproof it after cleaning, the acid in the vinegar will destroy whatever it is coated with. Wash, triple rinse, dry, really dry, retreat, enjoy.

You said that you checked with insurance, home owners or renters? Auto won't cover it but they might.

I'm definitely planning on cleaning it when there is a nice weather weekend. I'm closing it up later today because we're supposed to dip back into the teens with significant rain and snow starting Thursday for a week or so. It will probably be another month or two before weather is nice enough to clean and leave it open to dry. But that might give me enough time to see if it gets soaked inside again or not.

I am suspicious because it really seems like condensation to me. I have no way to conclusively know what the true cause is unless I start doing a whole bunch of tests, but based on how little I drove this winter, and tried to avoid rain and snow storms, I dont really see evidence of how else it happened. Maybe I am just not finding the smoking gun. It is strange that of all the people that have these nobody ever seems to report this kind of issue, thats good and bad. Good for being promising, bad for leaving me wonder what happened.

I was planning on having a propex heater plumbed directly into the tent, again to avoid setup-take down time and energy. But all of that is on hold until I can sort this out. No need to go buying things until I have a solution here. Those air conditioners are pretty nifty I have seen a few people using them now on YouTube. Its a pretty cool option!

I haven't considered if homeowners would cover it. I dont know why it would? It's worth a call though, I didn't even consider it. Let's see what the tent company has to say first though.

 

[InvertedLogic]

1) How was the tent stored?

2) There are several intermediate options between storing outside and building a whole garage. Even a carport or shed to keep the water off would probably work.

 

[chorky]

1) How was the tent stored?

2) There are several intermediate options between storing outside and building a whole garage. Even a carport or shed to keep the water off would probably work.

The tent was dried last fall, bedding was removed except mattress, 3 large silica packets placed inside, and closed up for the winter. It remained on the truck.

The whole taking it on and off thing has been covered. The purpose is to NOT do that. I have to trouble neighbors and coworkers to help with this and there is no guarantee they can or will. To put up a carport option will cost at least 15K. It is an option I am looking into, and to close it in over time. But they are not cheap. Everything in my area is insanely inflated. About to be even worse as another sawmill just publicized permanent closure within 6 months. I have a lot of concrete from an old garage that needs to be broken down first and disposed of, a new concrete base and footing to be poured before I can put up any structure. That is at least a year or two away if I started on it today. It is a solution, but I need to figure something out a little sooner.

 

[chorky]

They gave me a call a little bit ago. It was determined a few things might have been the cause. But they are sending me a new replacement seal right away, and are working on getting replacement fabric sent out. It's going to be a pain to get the fabric out and replaced. They were surprised mine does not have a zipper on the bottom, apparently it is one of the first ones they sold. All the others supposedly have zippers on the top and bottom to make fabric replacement easier. I wish I had a zipper on both ends for that reason. We'll see how this replacement goes, it looks to be kinda a bugger and the struts and hinges need to be removed for it. But there might be a way to do it so that those only have to be removed and reinstalled once.

 

[Turnswrench]

Garage time! Glad the tent company is helping.

 

[Jaxmax]

Ok Chad, your starting to get a plan, did you ask if they would just ship another one, and what it would cost, they are spending money doing what they are doing, good PR for them now would be good for both parties especially if you are one of their first tent customers with you offering up covering shipping or little bit more, your time is worth money. Ending up with a RTT that you could unzip the fabric out for long term storage or just routine cleaning would be a serious win for you…..Jack

 

[Buckhorn]

Since this week has some nice sunny 50 degree days for several days, I decided to open up the tent on Sunday. My worst fears were realized. Longish post - sorry, quite depressed and frustrated.

So, upon opening the tent - it was soaked. Completely drenched to the bone. All of the fabric. The interior had a couple small standing puddles, like 2" in diameter or so. Seeing as I left the mattress up there it was soaked as well. So it is currently sitting open since Sunday, trying to dry out. I have moved the mattress into the house, but I highly doubt the internal foam will actually dry.

The problem is mold. On first inspection, mold growth was just starting on the window screens. But after looking at it closer yesterday, the canvas has mold growth in some spots on the outside and various areas on the inside. I will probably try to clean it with a diluted bleach solution, but I know from experience it is a matter of time until it is trash because once mold starts on canvas/tent fabric, it really cannot be stopped. Plus it's a health hazard.

From day one I was cautiously optimistic of a RTT long term living a climate that has long cold winters, but threw caution to the wind considering nobody really ever seems to talk about winter storage issues. And before anyone says it, I do not have a garage - current market prices put the price to build over 35K and that is if I build it all myself. I also don't have the ability, without difficulty, to reasonably remove it every fall, put it in the basement and then reinstall in the spring. I live here alone, no wife/kids to assist, and coworkers seem irritated enough when I ask for a ride to town to get the JT in the shop if it has to be left overnight. Plus, the whole idea here is to have it set up ready to go all the time. So whatever solution I come up with, it must be essentially a permanent mount.

I dont know what to do. The tent manufacturer has been notified so we'll see what they say - I expect them to say tough luck - for which they will in return get a poor review because I was quiet lenient on several manufacturing flaws that made no real problem, but tent didnt come with features I was 'promised' it had (zippers top and bottom for easy fabric removal in case of repairs are needed - which was one of two features that was the deciding factor on this tent for me. This is a real problem. My entire build revolves around a RTT, so to go another route would be very expensive and likely kill this entire summer for camping.

I am trying to weigh options:

• just get a new tent
  • I have a feeling this is caused by just condensation. A cold winter morning, but day sunshine heating up the black tent shell, causing a 'beer bottle' effect pulling moisture into the warm tent from the outside, condensing on everything. So even a different tent I am sure would have the same problem. I definitely do not want to spend another 2500 bucks to have the same issue.
• try and build a low cost garage
  • A garage would allow me to open it up and air it out as often as desired and wanted, but getting a garage, and then having power run to it - is a long term plan for the house as it will cost a LOT and take several years.
• forget the RTT idea and get a ground tent and cot
  • I really wanted to be off of the ground for night time critters that tend to eat through fabric. Lots of mice in the woods around here and they carry diseases. I also live in big time griz country, although this would be the simplest of options and cut down on probably 130 pounds.
• Go the rout of an all-cab or ovrlnd camper
  • I also don't want to have to redo a bunch of stuff like if I swapped over to an OvrLnd camper. Plus I am already very heavy, so the alu-cab is not an option unless they come up with one lighter than my current setup.
• nix the whole gladiator and look at a JL with Ursa Minor or some other vehicle option
  • This would allow me to ensure the fabric is dry even without a garage since the entire top of the Jeep would then be a tent - but it would require swapping EVERYTHING over from the JT to a JL, and of course the cost, redoing the whole purchase thing, no guarantees I could qualify for a loan at today's rates either.
• nix the whole Jeep thing and look at a power wagon with a camper
  • Even more problems and cost than switching to a JL, plus, its not a jeep and although would be comfortable winter camping, would not be able to go on as many small roads to explore unless towing the jeep behind, which presents its own issues.
• use the Gladiator as a standard 'truck' and immediately start building the LJ into the camping/overlanding vehicle
  • I am going to build out the LJ anyway, but it will not be ready this summer at all.

Clearly this is an issue. And I really do not know what to do about it. I am hoping the tent manufacturer will just step up and find a way to get this situation resolved, but the only resolution I can realistically think of is ensuring their tent fabric is fully zippered in for easy removal. Based on new updated photos of their new fabric I dont think that is an option anymore.

These tents seem to always cause moisture problems in colder climates, even when vented. Moisture condenses on the ceiling, can freeze there, and will melt when the sun hits again, dripping all over everthing. Don't store anything that will absorb moisture in one.

 

[rharr]

sounds like you need to rent a climate controlled u store it place and keep the tent case cracked open during the winter months.

It being a aluminum case, the metal will cool quick and let moist air condense on the interior surface and drip.

It may be sealed but likely not so good that it can handle fluctuating air pressures which can drive air in and out of the case. As the air is going in and out it will bring with it what ever humidity it is saturated with as it does it.

 

[chorky]

sounds like you need to rent a climate controlled u store it place and keep the tent case cracked open during the winter months.

It being a aluminum case, the metal will cool quick and let moist air condense on the interior surface and drip.

It may be sealed but likely not so good that it can handle fluctuating air pressures which can drive air in and out of the case. As the air is going in and out it will bring with it what ever humidity it is saturated with as it does it.

I was thinking the same in terms of the condensation. But my seal closes but it's not squished like a pancake tight. So I'm getting a replacement. Heated storage, yeah that's not really an option. Closest heated storage is 75 miles away and I'm not gonna ask 3 friends to drive that far to help me unload/load it twice a year.

Garage time! Glad the tent company is helping.

I might have actually just found an option for that. looking like 15K for a metal structure, just need to price out siding and get some concrete work.

 

[MPMB]

We've never had a problem with our RTTs with leaking, and all winter I've had our old Tepui sitting outside. Seems to be a rare but unfortunate occurrence.

We're doing a Hiker trailer. The new RTT will move to that, and it'll be a few inches lower and easily fit in the garage. It'd fit on the JT as is, but the JT won't be going in the garage anytime soon, if ever.

If not in the garage, it'd be small enough to throw a tarp over it. Or I can open the back gate and park it back there, mostly under our 10x20 gazebo.

 

[RudeJeepin]

What about a simple A frame style hoist built out of 2x4 and 2x6s to lift the tent. Sit it on a set of saw horses to keep it off the ground. Then you could tarp the whole thing, A frame and all to help keep it out of the weather.
Fairly simple and a one man operation.

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