Jeep Reliability?

[Ole Cowboy]

I understand that you are on some sort of soap box but you are flat out wrong about Jeep being the most profitable car company in the world....please use some facts not just spouting off something that you think is right (or should be).

Porsche has been the most profitable car company in the world for many years (not necessarily every year).

https://www.evo.co.uk/volkswagen/19062/porsche-is-the-most-profitable-car-company-in-the-world

Although according to the latest results i’ve seen Ferrari is currently the most profitable...

I don’t mean to call you out but please use facts to back up your assumptions so those who may not know don’t end up perpetuating falsehoods.

LOL, comical, but you are a Porchy driver and I will forgive.

1) YOU DID NOT READ my post did ya, come on admit it. Usually, under such attack as yours, I question one's reading comprehension skills, but I know you better than that, you are smarter too. Before you jump like that, read the entire post AND show the quote in Bold, like I did above

2) . My Porsche story (short version), you may enjoy!

I awake the next day to look out the window of my Holiday Hotel to see nothing but snow on the ground and flakes coming down the size of waffles I’d had the nite before. I head on out to Bowling Green, Ky to the Corvette factory, take the VIP tour, then head over to the Corvette Museum for pickup of my Z06. There it sets in delivery area 1 of the museum. I sign papers and drive off into what has become blue skies and dry streets. It is a wonderful day in my life. If you have ever thought of buying a Corvette, then think of getting the Museum Delivery option, R8C, most fun and best $ you will spend any time soon.


Its getting late in the eve of my second day of driving as I pull into a gas station alongside I-75 just south of the Florida border. The Z06 has just ticked over 500 miles and I am thinking I need to let those ponies loose. I look over at the far pumps and I have 2 Porsche’s filling up. A Boxster and a 911 Carrera. The two guys see me and wander over asking me about my ‘vette. They tell me they are investment bankers from Atlanta heading down to an Alumni fraternity party in Tampa. From the looks of these two, I am sure they are going to have a gay ole time. Boxster boy is telling me how fast the other Porsche is and I listen as if I am impressed. They leave telling me they hope to see me out on the highway…bet on it banana breath!


I fill up my tank and head south. I bank right and hit the I-95 on ramp-like Jean Claude Killy chasing Suze ChapStick down the slopes in Aspen. I turn my Valentine One to max bogie as I head down that highway and crank up Thrugood’s Bad To The Bone CD. It is not long and I come across the two-bobsee twins in their German machines. Boxster boy is following as I pull up beside the 911.


We are at 75 mph, I see the 911’s nose dip slightly and I know he is downshifting, I have 6 forward gears residing in a Tremec Mk 12 racing transmission, I see his nose dip again and I know he is fixing to hammer it. I am grabbing for gears faster than a monkey reaching for a banana. I see the nose head up and he has the drop on me as I catch the top of second gear heading for 6500 rpm, he has me by a car length or so but it's German Vs. Chev iron or I guess aluminum in this case. Third gear gets here in a hurry, then it fourth, I left him behind in the top of third, but he is hanging on like a trapeze artist without a net.


Telephone poles are beginning to look like a picket fence and the dashed line in the highway looks like a solid line when I look ahead and see a long sweeper curve up ahead. We run out of straight away and head into the curve. Z06 will pull 1G and I know he can, but does he have the kahunas to hang in there?


I have the inside lane heading into the sweeper and I am looking at him in my right side mirror. We are running about 135mph, I have been seeing him in that mirror since we hit triple numbers. As we go into the apex of the curve I see his nose-dive and I know he did not have the guts to stay the course, what do you expect from a jellyfish. I slow and those two have faded faster than memories of Kato Kaelin after the OJ trial. I see a sign for the Empty Arms Inn and I exit to spend the night and I will make Miami tomorrow.

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[ACAD_Cowboy]

So how are we defining profitability? Is this a net proceeds per vehicle sold or a straight across the board sales less costs?

Ferrari clears anywhere from 80 to 90k in per vehicle sold make them the most profitable manufacturer within the FCA family and the world. Porsche clears about 20k per vehicle but at a much higher sales volume AND most the hardware is parts bin and shared cost wise with the rest of VAG thus stretching that 20k even further.

Jeep is very profitable for FCA in North America, low incentives coupled to high receipt values means JK/JL/JT are towing the load for all those deep discounts on Rams and Durangos while all the Renegade and Cherokee sales keep the register humming. Jeep sales outside of North America are pretty much gravy as all the work has already been done for ECE LHD countries, swap in a canadian dash display and some e-code head and tails and you have an instant export model. I know there is more but the point is that a huge fraction of parts and labor carries right over. RHD is a different matter as is Australian design rules so there is more cost there.

But... Jeep prints money for FCA in just about the opposite way Ferrari does, volume over margin versus halo brand exclusivity and cost is no object marketing.

So let’s stop having a dick wag over which company is fleecing us the worst and realize that Jeep hasn’t really been iffy since AMC went under. They were a Brunswick stew of Ford, GM and Mopar parts with some Renault thrown in at one point just for added WTF spice. And since AMC was always getting hind tit, of course they were sourcing the more cost considerate components and always seeking ways to wring just a little bit more out. AMC was the Hershey bar, it has to cost a nickel so the bar just keeps getting smaller as costs rise, AMC was in the same bind. This despite the eagle basically inventing the sport crossover, the grand wagoner inventing the luxury large SUV, the commando inventing the luxury suv and the cj inventing the whole recreational utility off road vehicle category.

I’ll close with my personal epitaph on AMC’s grave:

The second mouse gets the cheese.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

So how are we defining profitability? Is this a net proceeds per vehicle sold or a straight across the board sales less costs?

Ferrari clears anywhere from 80 to 90k in per vehicle sold make them the most profitable manufacturer within the FCA family and the world. Porsche clears about 20k per vehicle but at a much higher sales volume AND most the hardware is parts bin and shared cost wise with the rest of VAG thus stretching that 20k even further.

Jeep is very profitable for FCA in North America, low incentives coupled to high receipt values means JK/JL/JT are towing the load for all those deep discounts on Rams and Durangos while all the Renegade and Cherokee sales keep the register humming. Jeep sales outside of North America are pretty much gravy as all the work has already been done for ECE LHD countries, swap in a canadian dash display and some e-code head and tails and you have an instant export model. I know there is more but the point is that a huge fraction of parts and labor carries right over. RHD is a different matter as is Australian design rules so there is more cost there.

But... Jeep prints money for FCA in just about the opposite way Ferrari does, volume over margin versus halo brand exclusivity and cost is no object marketing.

So let’s stop having a dick wag over which company is fleecing us the worst and realize that Jeep hasn’t really been iffy since AMC went under. They were a Brunswick stew of Ford, GM and Mopar parts with some Renault thrown in at one point just for added WTF spice. And since AMC was always getting hind tit, of course they were sourcing the more cost considerate components and always seeking ways to wring just a little bit more out. AMC was the Hershey bar, it has to cost a nickel so the bar just keeps getting smaller as costs rise, AMC was in the same bind. This despite the eagle basically inventing the sport crossover, the grand wagoner inventing the luxury large SUV, the commando inventing the luxury suv and the cj inventing the whole recreational utility off road vehicle category.

I’ll close with my personal epitaph on AMC’s grave:

The second mouse gets the cheese.

The Jeep SWB, Wrangler, MB, CJ, T, as for the rest of the line I have no idea and NEVER said or implied Jeep was the most profitable company. Going back over what I wrote...the problem with the Jeep NOT the company is that the Finance folks at Chrysler and Chrysler MB said it is the most profitable vehicle, however, selling less than 50,000 per year did not add much to the Company's profitability. So the view is looking at the individual vehicle and its % of gross profit per vehicle. Sure Ferarri makes $90k per, but what is the cost as it gets spit out the assembly line.

I worked at one of the Big 3 Accounting/Consulting firms and knew some of the guys over on the finance & auditing side of the house. One of the guys who had been on the Corvette division auditing team saw me in the parking lot and asked me what I paid for my C 6, told him it was $48k MSRP, he told me when it rolls out the door in Bowling Green it is a $19,000 car.

Jeeps and Corvette have struggled for years to keep from being killed off, not from an individual profit viewpoint but from a production quantity...auto mfg deal in millions of cars sold, not tens of thousands.

Remember the CJ 5, 30-year production run single body and only minor cosmetics. Prob spitting it out the door at well under $2k and I would suprised if it was not under $1k, around $900 from my time working and consulting in mfg, if you cannot have volume, then stretch out the shelf life of that design.

At the top of the companies and over in the green-eyeshade crowd is all about Qty x profit.

Anyhow, wasted enough time...

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

I wasn’t implying you said it, mostly questioning how we’re are discussing profitability writ large. Ferrari clears 80-90k in pure profit per chassis and as a whole brand probably sells less units a year than Toledo makes in a day. Porsche represents the highest return on investment in VAG and allows them to squeeze golfs and skodas and seats out for dirt cheap. MB/BMW/Audi all return about 10k in profit per chassis and have huge volumes which allows them to keep doing it year after year. MB also benefits from their entire truck division and it’s children like Detroit Diesel, Mitsubishi fuso, freightliner, western star etc.

We return you now to griping about how that one Jeep your buddy’s friend’s brother’s roommate in college had and what a piece of shit/unstoppable precision machine it was. Bonus points will be awarded if the critique bears no weight on current Jeep production and is based squarely on feels.

 

[Happycoop]

Probably not a popular side, but my experiences with Jeeps aren't quite as rosy as what most folks hear paint.

I've had quite a number of Jeeps over the years (I'm on vehicle #54 right now), ranging from flat fenders to CJs to YJs, XJs, TJs, ZJs and JKs. While almost all of them were very reliable, the JKs I had were far from it. A 2012 JKU had a myriad of items that kept being replaced/repaired under warranty, enough so that I never even got a chance to lift it (the thing was always at the dealer). Then I got a 2015 JK, and while it was reliable in the sense that it would start and drive anywhere, the thing was falling apart from day 1. I was furious that Jeep allowed something so terribly put together to come off the line. Both JKs had the door cylinder locks fall out; one I found, the other I had to drive from UT all the way back to FL with no door lock b/c I couldn't find it. I know lots of folks who never had issues with their JKs, but I sure do know a bunch that were fed up with them as well (luckily the JL seems to have better QC).

I know some folks harp on Porsche, but if they ever had one (or many), they'd know they are crazy reliable. Sure, they're super expensive in terms of parts (compared to the average vehicle), but they are actually quite simple to work on. I've owned several over the years, and I will likely always have one in my garage...they're just amazing vehicles.

I keep reading that the JL and JT are a new kind of build quality, and I sure hope so. While I fully intend to buy a JT, if the quality is similar to the JKs I had, it won't be staying in my garage for very long.

 

[rodhotter]

as i noted before like harleys owners put up with whatever they are!! even most convertibles have their quirks that come with the design + wind noise is one. my 2001 TT roadster is fairly quiet but drips a bit during heavy rains but i still enjoy the open air ride which is why i am interested in the gladiator if or when a 2 dr with a longer box gets built as i need a pickup to use as a pickup + it will be preowned if it ever happens because they are out of my budget!! and for sure when buyers buy whatever is made the manufacturers could care less!! harley made crap but sold but when sales tanked they got better + with sales tanking again from poor reliability of totally new engines + overpricing they are doing poorly. ALL manufacturers only want your $$$$ + generally do whatever is needed or go out of business!

 

[Hootbro]

My Jeep ownership experience and quality has been a mix bag. Nothing major, just nit picky and lack of attention to detail stuff.

2013 JK Sport bought used and my ownership of it was flawless.

2014 JK Unlimited Sahara bought new and zero issue or complaints.

2018 JL Unlimited Sport had problems out the gate with the radio not having reception and found the radio antenna was disconnected at the passenger firewall area. Also found after delivery numerous plastic rivets on fender liners missing.

2020 JT Rubicon has had a few assembly quality issues. Found a cover on the underside where the rear harness comes out from the cab area loose with just the fasteners started but not tightened all the way down. Leather Dash has a serious squeak on the passenger side and suspect the leather wrap too tight and warping the plastic cover it is attached too.

Luckily no mechanical or driveability issues and I can live with that but there is room for FCA and Jeep to improve.

 

[Gladiator4Runner]

The worst vehicle I’ve ever had was a 2015 Toyota 4 runner.

I’ve owned 4 wranglers with maybe a cumulative mileage of 300k, I’ve replaced one radiator after the fan disintegrated. There’s always a chance that something gets done wrong at assembly or flawed parts get installed but I’d bet most wranglers that have problems (beyond a random electrical issue) are either abused and poorly maintained or preowned under the same conditions

Really? Shocking to hear. What happened with it? I have 155,000 on mine and it's been flawless so far.

 

[Bobzdar]

There's nothing more unreliable than a modified jeep in my experience, and I've owned a few. I've bought 3 new and kept them mostly stock. I sold my tj at 109k miles. In the time I owned it, I had to do 3 repairs to it - a new blower motor resistor network at $45, a new hvac control knob for $15 and a set of sway bar end links for $90. The first two repairs took a couple of minutes, the sway bar end links took about 20. I sold it with 109k miles on it and it still ran perfectly and was in excellent cosmetic shape despite me regularly off roading in it. I still regret selling it.

Last spring, I bought a brand new JLUR and put 26k trouble free miles on it, and regularly went off road, towed etc. This spring I traded it for a JTR and have 9k trouble free miles on it.

My mom has had 2 wk2 grand cherokees and has had zero issues with them.

My modified jeeps have had a myriad of issues. I no longer have any of them.

 

[MonkeySkunks]

a new hvac control knob for $15

That's unacceptable! Jeep really is pushing out garbage.

 

[Jim_n_Tx]

I have a 2006 Rubicon - 149,xxx miles under power and another 20,xxx miles towed behind a motorhome - no malfunctions and still going strong. I guess that is indicative of reliability. Apparently I got a good one.

 

[B345T]

Jeep has had a strong and loyal following for nearly 80 years! How many cars you know have been around for 80 years?

You mean besides ... Ford ... Chevrolet ... Dodge ... and just about any manufacturer of vehicles...

Cerberus Capital Management was the worst thing to happen to the Chrysler Branded vehicles..Mercedes Benz wanted to streamline the brand and yes Jeep was on the block, but cooler heads prevailed...the bankers at Cerberus were the true idiots of the automotive industry...

 

[mazeppa]

<Snip>
There's nothing more unreliable than a modified jeep
<Snip>

Totally agree.

 

[Hootbro]

..............

Cerberus Capital Management was the worst thing to happen to the Chrysler Branded vehicles..Mercedes Benz wanted to streamline the brand and yes Jeep was on the block, but cooler heads prevailed...the bankers at Cerberus were the true idiots of the automotive industry...

To be fair, Ceberus bought Chrysler in 2007 with plans to spin off or sell what it could and flip the remaining part of Chrysler to another buyer for a profit. The 2008 market melt down left them holding and managing a company they had no plans to run long term.

 

[B345T]

To be fair, Ceberus bought Chrysler in 2007 with plans to spin off or sell what it could and flip the remaining part of Chrysler to another buyer for a profit. The 2008 market melt down left them holding and managing a company they had no plans to run long term.

And during their tenure they went to the cheapest manufacturer of parts to increase the bottom line "making the sale easier" and destroyed what little product quality image that was left of Chrysler Corp...

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