Leaking axle seal?

[ShadowsPapa]

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[ShadowsPapa]

Has anyone checked their fluid level and needed to top off?

If you read back a number of posts you'll see where I explained that you'd have a REAL MESS, lube all over the wheel, large spot (meaning the size of a football) before you'd lose enough lube to worry.
I gave the example of how just 2 or 3 ounces of lube would cover the inside of the wheel and drip on the garage...........No one has posted a picture that shows anything more than maybe an ounce or less. Won't be missed in that differential housing.

 

[AXG1040]

If you read back a number of posts you'll see where I explained that you'd have a REAL MESS, lube all over the wheel, large spot (meaning the size of a football) before you'd lose enough lube to worry.
I gave the example of how just 2 or 3 ounces of lube would cover the inside of the wheel and drip on the garage...........No one has posted a picture that shows anything more than maybe an ounce or less. Won't be missed in that differential housing.

Exactly. When the tech checked mine it hadn’t lowered at all. Said exactly the above that it looks a mess but it is very little coming out. Maybe that pipe fitting they sent is the new upgraded part? ?. I really want to call my SA back and get the final story about it. That real part is on Ebay now!!

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I just joined this club... I noticed the leak because there was a spot on the garage floor after it sat for a few days. 2021 Sport S, not Max Tow, 2,700 miles, passenger side rear, MDH is 033010. I have an appointment Monday for the dealership to take a look. Will update on the situation but the previous posts timeline of September is a bummer!

Update: I took my truck in to the dealership this morning. I showed them the leak, they disappeared for a while, came back out to tell me that they needed to keep my truck there until the part came in to get it fixed. Unfortunately, the backorder thing is true so there isn’t a good time estimate for repair. I asked if I could drive it home and put the truck in my nice, secure garage. They said if I did that it wouldn’t be in a priority status to get fixed and they wouldn’t cover a rental vehicle. So now my truck is sitting outside of the service department in a less than desirable part of town exposed to the elements for an undetermined amount of time. It’s frustrating because I don’t consider this a cheap vehicle and I have a garage to keep it out of the 100 degree sun and wildfire smoke but I can’t get the same warranty benefits if I take the truck that I make a payment on home with me? Here’s to hoping that some homeless tweaker doesn’t cut open my soft top and use my truck as a home for the night while I drive a crappy Kia that I can’t tow with. @JeepCares is this normal?

 

[sdk131]

Update: I took my truck in to the dealership this morning. I showed them the leak, they disappeared for a while, came back out to tell me that they needed to keep my truck there until the part came in to get it fixed. Unfortunately, the backorder thing is true so there isn’t a good time estimate for repair. I asked if I could drive it home and put the truck in my nice, secure garage. They said if I did that it wouldn’t be in a priority status to get fixed and they wouldn’t cover a rental vehicle. So now my truck is sitting outside of the service department in a less than desirable part of town exposed to the elements for an undetermined amount of time. It’s frustrating because I don’t consider this a cheap vehicle and I have a garage to keep it out of the 100 degree sun and wildfire smoke but I can’t get the same warranty benefits if I take the truck that I make a payment on home with me? Here’s to hoping that some homeless tweaker doesn’t cut open my soft top and use my truck as a home for the night while I drive a crappy Kia that I can’t tow with. @JeepCares is this normal?

It's such a shame that the service departments At many dealerships are so horrible. If it is the same leak we all have there is zero reason you can't just keep driving it until the part comes in. Of course now they turned it into a game and drew a line in the sand.

 

[WXman]

Those of you finding leaks, are you uncorking your vent tube by modifying the vent breather at the end of the tube? Per the advice in this thread, I checked mine the minute I got it home from the dealership. I was shocked to find how restrictive the "breather" was. It is actually a misnomer because that thing doesn't allow breathing at all.

I removed the plastic cap, cut the membrane, pulled out half the cotton discs, then reinstalled the cap. Checked the breather by blowing air into it by mouth and NOW it can allow airflow, while still giving splash resistance.

I don't expect to have high pressure and leaks now BUT time will tell!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Those of you finding leaks, are you uncorking your vent tube by modifying the vent breather at the end of the tube? Per the advice in this thread, I checked mine the minute I got it home from the dealership. I was shocked to find how restrictive the "breather" was. It is actually a misnomer because that thing doesn't allow breathing at all.

I removed the plastic cap, cut the membrane, pulled out half the cotton discs, then reinstalled the cap. Checked the breather by blowing air into it by mouth and NOW it can allow airflow, while still giving splash resistance.

I don't expect to have high pressure and leaks now BUT time will tell!

They don't have to breathe fast as in you blowing air through it. it's a much slower process. The seals are designed to hold some pressure.
I find it odd that replacing the axle assembly on the right side fixes it if it's a vent, and why not the left side.
No logic to it being a vent - the same vent used in other Jeeps for how long?
If it's a vent - why not the left side?
If it's a vent - why does a replacement axle fix things?
These vents don't need to pass as much "cfm" as people seem to believe. These don't heat up instantly, I bet if you put a gauge on it you'd not see even a pound of pressure building up because those vent out fast enough for the slow build-up of pressure.
Those vents are used on thousands of vehicles - even vehicles other than the JT.
Seals as used on these axles will actually handle several psi pressure-wise. No way you are building up to 7+ psi in these. (any lip seal like these are made to handle an average of 7 plus psi)

Frankly, I see taking apart the vent like lowering the water pressure in your house to take care of a dripping faucet. It may not leak, but you've not fixed the REAL problem.
I've been working with axles and axle seal issues for decades - sorry, I don't see the vent as the root cause, I see people opening it up resulting in hiding the faulty seal issue, not fixing it.

Want to test those vents? Put one in the lid of a glass jar and warm the jar and see if pressure builds - warm it at about the same rate as the AIR in that axle housing would warm and expand. I would bet it vents fast enough to keep pressure to nearly nothing.
Another test - put the vent on a jar or other container and then apply some air pressure through a regulator to it and see how fast it bleeds the pressure out.
Blowing through those is like testing a 1960 differential vent - not any real test.

 

[Killroy Was Here]

Those of you finding leaks, are you uncorking your vent tube by modifying the vent breather at the end of the tube? Per the advice in this thread, I checked mine the minute I got it home from the dealership. I was shocked to find how restrictive the "breather" was. It is actually a misnomer because that thing doesn't allow breathing at all.

I removed the plastic cap, cut the membrane, pulled out half the cotton discs, then reinstalled the cap. Checked the breather by blowing air into it by mouth and NOW it can allow airflow, while still giving splash resistance.

I don't expect to have high pressure and leaks now BUT time will tell!

Had the right rear axle/brg/seal assy. replaced in early May & did this same modification to the "not so breathable" breather.
It now has almost 4,000 miles on the replacement which includes a 1,400+ mile vacation trip to the UP of Michigan.
So far no sign of any leakage what so ever back there as it should be.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Had the right rear axle/brg/seal assy. replaced in early May & did this same modification to the "not so breathable" breather.
It now has almost 4,000 miles on the replacement which includes a 1,400+ mile vacation trip to the UP of Michigan.
So far no sign of any leakage what so ever back there as it should be.

My point being that if you had the axle assy replaced and NOT cut up the breather, it would have fixed it just replacing the axle/seal.
Saying it doesn't leak now proves nothing.

My bet is this - put a new vent in it and in all likelihood, it wouldn't leak - because the axle should have fixed it.

 

[WXman]

Somebody may have mentioned it somewhere in this nearly 30 page thread, but Nissan had the exact same issue. And their axle I believe was a D44 derivative with some Nissan tweaks. I actually had an axle leak fixed on a Frontier I owned with only 10,000 miles on the clock. The common fix was to remove the vent cap which was known to block air and replace it with a hose up high with a fuel filter or something similar that could breathe. LOTS of guys did that mod, and there was even a company who sold a kit to do it.

Makes perfect sense that if pressure builds in an axle on a hot day, which it does, that the pressure has to go somewhere. The vent cap on my Gladiator vent tube was not a 7 PSI cap. I blew on that thing until I thought my eyes were going to pop out, nothing. It was like trying to blow a watermelon through a garden hose.

Why only one side? Well I've seen pics of leaks on both sides.

Why does the axle fix it? Well we haven't seen anybody get an axle replacement and then put lots of miles on, only small number of miles. Maybe it doesn't really fix it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Whatever - I'm coming at it as a mechanic - experienced........
all a normal person can "blow" is a bit over 1 psi.
A well trained person who has practiced and built up their lungs - still under 2 psi.
A seal can handle 7psi (actually more) so you can't possibly test a vent to what a seal can handle.

Looking for left seal leaking - as far as "are they fixed" - time will tell.

(and you are saying they changed the vent mid-model year 2021?)

 

[WXman]

Whatever - I'm coming at it as a mechanic - experienced........
all a normal person can "blow" is a bit over 1 psi.
A well trained person who has practiced and built up their lungs - still under 2 psi.
A seal can handle 7psi (actually more) so you can't possibly test a vent to what a seal can handle.

Looking for left seal leaking - as far as "are they fixed" - time will tell.

(and you are saying they changed the vent mid-model year 2021?)

Are you suggesting that I'm not?

You surely have more experience than I do. But I've been working on Jeeps, trucks, cars for a few decades now. I even spent two summers working on heavy equipment in industrial settings.

I have no idea if they changed the axle vents at ANY point during Gladiator production. All I know is that axle vents are there for a reason, and if you're saying that the vent cap requires 7 times the pressure to operate than what a human can blow, then clearly that vent cap isn't designed properly. That level of pressure inside a steel axle tube IS going to find somewhere to go, and pressure takes the path of least resistance. Even if we assume the axle seal was not installed perfectly, the pressure vent can still be the difference between it leaking and it not leaking. EVERY other 4x4 I've ever worked on has had vent caps that a human can easily blow air through. In fact, that's how we used to always check them. And that's how we used to check PCV valves too.

What I find interesting is that my first Gladiator, built in May 2019, was traded off at around 14,000 miles. Well, the woman who bought it happens to be somebody I know in my little home town. I found out that not long after she bought it, it had to go to the dealership for what she called "something wrong with the rear axle". I never got any further details....

 

[rharr]

Has no one just pulled the stupid leaking axle shaft to see for themselves what the issues is? Burs on the seal surface, bend shaft, poor seal install ect ect.....

Replacing a seal is not rocket science, your telling me a place like parts plus or a bearing house can't find a replacement seal for these axles and it has to be a mopar part?

The hardest part of the operation is getting the bearing lock ring off.

 

[ZSum73]

Are you suggesting that I'm not?

You surely have more experience than I do. But I've been working on Jeeps, trucks, cars for a few decades now. I even spent two summers working on heavy equipment in industrial settings.

I have no idea if they changed the axle vents at ANY point during Gladiator production. All I know is that axle vents are there for a reason, and if you're saying that the vent cap requires 7 times the pressure to operate than what a human can blow, then clearly that vent cap isn't designed properly. That level of pressure inside a steel axle tube IS going to find somewhere to go, and pressure takes the path of least resistance. Even if we assume the axle seal was not installed perfectly, the pressure vent can still be the difference between it leaking and it not leaking. EVERY other 4x4 I've ever worked on has had vent caps that a human can easily blow air through. In fact, that's how we used to always check them. And that's how we used to check PCV valves too.

What I find interesting is that my first Gladiator, built in May 2019, was traded off at around 14,000 miles. Well, the woman who bought it happens to be somebody I know in my little home town. I found out that not long after she bought it, it had to go to the dealership for what she called "something wrong with the rear axle". I never got any further details.(

I notice mine leaks after longer trips over 15 miles, when it can heat up, but for short trips on cooler days no leak after ride??? It makes me believe in the pressure and vent is an issue, but still concerned about why the seal is weaker than the vent. Not sure why jeep isn't looking into this problem, as it seems fairly common. maybe the seal is crimped at one spot and when that spot is lowest it leaks, idk, just hate that thursday it gets pulled apart at 600 miles...

 

[ShadowsPapa]

EVERY other 4x4 I've ever worked on has had vent caps that a human can easily blow air through. In fact, that's how we used to always check them. And that's how we used to check PCV valves too.

Definitely an old-timers method of PCV - and incorrect, too. There are flow meters. You can't check their operation by blowing through them. There's a gauge and there are specs.
The PCV is actually supposed to CLOSE under high vacuum operation, like deceleration, and the shuttle or pintle inside is made to meter flow. They are also made to close with a backfire or intake pressure.
All you were doing was checking to see if air could pass - and only at 1 psi. My bet - a lot of faulty PCVs went through.
I have the tech specs for some PCV systems and internal diagrams - and the test gauge. It's more than just a shell with a valve in it.
One reason some of the classic cars start "using oil" is people put "will fit" PCV valves in them - and they flow too much or don't operate correctly.
The old school ways of testing vents are gone.
The old school ways of checking PCV were never correct to begin with.

Like my college instructor for engine design and repair used to say: "when someone says "I've been doing it this way for 30 years" that doesn't mean it was right all that time". (he was actually more rude in how he said it but he got his point across with a lot of examples including pulling battery cables off to check charging systems, checking PCV by blowing through them, setting timing "by ear" or "advance until it pings then back it off" - all methods that don't resolve but may actually cause issues.

Axles seals and other similar lip seals can hold 7+ psi, some more.
In fact pressure makes them seal tighter as it forces the wedge-shaped lip harder against the shaft. that means if that axle builds 10 psi that seal will be pressed harder against the axle and less likely to leak.
Unless that vent is blocking air pressures of that magnitude, it's not an issue unless the seal is also bad.
The problem is - we don't know exactly what the specs are on that vent - at what pressure does it allow air to pass and at what rate. It's all guess and speculation and that's all it is.

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