Loose Steering?

[RickyR]

If I am correct the backs of the stock bumpers are steel channel so should be sufficient to hold things. The steel bumper is steel front, too.
I've not really paid close attention, but there's a lot of structure to the stock non-steel bumper IMO.

On my JTR, I not only have the steel OEM bumper but an additional Artec winch plate that goes to both sides of the frame. But after looking at it, those are too far from the steering box to really make much of a difference, since there is a crossmember just in front of the steering box mounting location. I think there's going to be a needed reinforcement plate, larger than the Synergy bracket, that will be needed. The Synergy one will do the job, but the newer piece seems to need to be more fore and aft on the frame, instead of just capturing the steering box bolts. But still needing to capture the steering box cross shaft as well.
Imagine some of the JL's on the road now for almost 2 years flexing back and forth in that frame area? Eventually as stated above flexing steel is a huge problem, especially in the steering department. I spoke with someone today who told me a few JT's were on trails and several had steering problems, due to the weakness in that area. So who knows where this is going to end up. If I were a betting man, I'd say FCA knows this already and is trying to find a more cost effective way to fix this, and there are likely few cheap solutions. Imagine a recall for frame replacements?

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[ShadowsPapa]

On my JTR, I not only have the steel OEM bumper but an additional Artec winch plate that goes to both sides of the frame. But after looking at it, those are too far from the steering box to really make much of a difference, since there is a crossmember just in front of the steering box mounting location. I think there's going to be a needed reinforcement plate, larger than the Synergy bracket, that will be needed. The Synergy one will do the job, but the newer piece seems to need to be more fore and aft on the frame, instead of just capturing the steering box bolts. But still needing to capture the steering box cross shaft as well.
Imagine some of the JL's on the road now for almost 2 years flexing back and forth in that frame area? Eventually as stated above flexing steel is a huge problem, especially in the steering department. I spoke with someone today who told me a few JT's were on trails and several had steering problems, due to the weakness in that area. So who knows where this is going to end up. If I were a betting man, I'd say FCA knows this already and is trying to find a more cost effective way to fix this, and there are likely few cheap solutions. Imagine a recall for frame replacements?

As a mechanic I've seen my share of "fixes" and recalls and TSBs (technical service bulletins) and recall for frame replacement - I'm sure you are joking as there are always alternatives. I've seen castings, plates, braces and other fixes on such things in the past, including in unibody cars, subframe connectors.

 

[jrf]

Why is it that the vast majority have no issues?

This is an excellent question...much like other problems that only effect some. Possibly poor quality control on the steering boxes? Good/bad batches? (assuming that it is the steering box) For those that have driven both a Gladiator that steers perfectly fine vs one that is terrible..I think it's the most perplexing. I also think that because of that FCA should be able to identify a problem/batch/etc of where the problem lies.

 

[Gatorized]

It could be just the mating up of items with the worst possible acceptance criteria for tolerance.
One item is on the high side of acceptable and the other on the low side, but the stack up of tolerances between several items in an assembly is unacceptable.

 

[Onebigyoshi]

My steering has about the same amount of play (around 2 inches) but honestly I thought that's how it normally drives. I'm not really bothered by that, however I am extremely concerned by the recent discovery of potential frame flexing on some, if not all our Gladiators and presumably the JLs. FCA needs to remedy this right away to avoid potential hazards in the future. How would a non-mechanically inclined person such as myself prove that my frame is flexing?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This is an excellent question...much like other problems that only effect some. Possibly poor quality control on the steering boxes? Good/bad batches? (assuming that it is the steering box) For those that have driven both a Gladiator that steers perfectly fine vs one that is terrible..I think it's the most perplexing. I also think that because of that FCA should be able to identify a problem/batch/etc of where the problem lies.

And you hit on why I keep asking - is anyone here even bothering to track WHO is having the issue, WHAT MODEL/LEVEL (Sport Overland, Rubicon) is it bone stock, different wheels/tires, with lift, and so on. That's the only way to nail it down. FIND THAT PATTERN.
Track it - My guess is that it's Rubicon because that's about all forum members here have - Sport being next, and me being one of about 3 who have Overland.
Anyway, until someone bothers tracking equipment, mods, levels, etc. - it's a random hodge-podge of vehicles. I can't believe it's totally random. Could be wrong - I think I was once, but could be wrong about that. HA ;-)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My steering has about the same amount of play (around 2 inches) but honestly I thought that's how it normally drives. I'm not really bothered by that, however I am extremely concerned by the recent discovery of potential frame flexing on some, if not all our Gladiators and presumably the JLs. FCA needs to remedy this right away to avoid potential hazards in the future. How would a non-mechanically inclined person such as myself prove that my frame is flexing?

You hit on another thing I was wondering about - when PARKED or sitting still, with bigger tires, you are really stressing the steering. My Chevy one concrete sitting still there were times I had to touch the accelerator pedal to get any power to turn the wheels and it was stock. More meat on the ground means it's a lot harder to turn the thing. That steering box has very little leverage over the steering linkage, steering arms compared to how many square inches of rubber sitting on rough concrete.

Anyway, if you want to check, get anyone, kid, wife/husband/SO, friend, enemy, neighbor (naw, better skip the enemy or neighbor, they may put it in gear and run over you) anyway, you have them start the engine, and while you look with a good light as where the steering box mounts to the frame - have them "wiggle" the steering wheel back and forth - more than just a fraction of an inch - have them give it a good 2+ inches in both directions while you watch that black frame where that box is mounted. It may move a TEEENY amount but if you notice it, then maybe take your cell phone and a good light and video that sucker and get other opinions.

By the time a person lifts their Jeep and puts bigger tires on, even a lift alone for that matter, you change the ANGLE of that tie rod and now the steering box through the pitman arm is trying to turn the wheels by pushing that tie rod DOWN as well as across! A lift - and/or bigger tires will add a whole lot of STRESS to that steering linkage because it's far easier to turn those wheels when it's pushing that tie rod almost straight across, but a lift means it's pushing DOWN. Ever try to push something by using a stick that's straight ahead of you, then trying to push that same object using a stick that's offset several inches?
It's physics. Sorry guys, I know you all love the 10" lifts and 50" tires but you've added a whole lot of stress through those angles. And if it's related to third-party stuff above and beyond FCA parts - I'm not sure where I'd side. I am speaking as an auto tech..... I've seen some things.
What some of the customs guys do is MOVE the steering box to compensate. (cars and street rods and such)

 

[FREEZE451]

I have a stock Rubicon. I thought I fixed the issue with the stabilizer - which I now understands just put a mask on the issue - and it's still prevalent.

If there was a sure fix I'd be down for fixing it myself - aside from adjusting the steering box to void warranty, one piece of mind I'd like to keep..

I've seen the track bar bracket that was release shortly ago - have not tried this, not sure if that's the fix being it seems to be more of an electrical issue in my mind, almost like it's not registering the steering wheel moving until it goes so many degrees. I'd be down to test this out in the future.

I've read people put entirely different track bars - still not sure if that's it either.

I went with the Fox 2.0 Stabilizer - which is hiding the problem a little bit.

The Gladiator went into the dealership - who said it drove fine - then adjusted the alignment to push the tires out - not %100 what that means, I do have paperwork attached.


I will say they did fix my radio, super happy about that...


Still - I notice the steering sway, and it's for sure worse in the cold being in ND, I'm a little worried in the -20 degree days on the interstate.

After I posted this I did some more reading, and it seems to be that the steering box is indeed the culprit. I located some other forums and seems to go around.. So I'm going to call my dealer and see if they would possibly adjust it for me..

 

[FREEZE451]

I talked to the dealer and they told me specifically:

"If you're adjusting a factory part to make sure it's tight that would not void your factory warranty."

I explained that I'm going to tighten that specific bolt as it seems to fix the issue for most people that I can find.

Now I just need to watch some videos.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I talked to the dealer and they told me specifically:

"If you're adjusting a factory part to make sure it's tight that would not void your factory warranty."

I explained that I'm going to tighten that specific bolt as it seems to fix the issue for most people that I can find.

Now I just need to watch some videos.

Correct- checking to make sure a fastener is to specs won't do anything to the warranty. Changing it out might - but not making sure it's set to their torque specs - they should thank you for that.
I might suggest that people keep really close watch on the torque specs for steering and suspension fasteners as it's not unheard of to see the specs change down the road. That's one reason tech service manuals used to have "updates" or supplements released now and then. They learned.....

 

[RickyR]

When I took my jeep to the 4 wheel parts place last week to get it aligned I also told them the steering wheel wasn't straight. My post above saying that they couldn't align it because they didn't have the specs yet, but he did say he would adjust the drag link to get the wheel straight. But he said he had a hard time doing it, because the adjustor was doing 2 things (threads on both inside and outside of the collar). But now, after seeing how my frame flexed, he couldn't center the wheel properly because when he adjusted the collar the frame was flexing, not that the collar was doing both threads at the same time and was very sensitive.

 

[futzin']

It would be great if a JT owner WITH this problem could get together with an owner WITHOUT this problem and drive each other's and otherwise compare . . .

 

[FL Handle Guy]

Why is it that the vast majority have no issues?

Perhaps it's a quality control issue? Perhaps your dealer has a vested interest? My dealer said they have had a lot of JLs come in with steering issues. Hell, they are on the 5th revision of the steering box, with a new track bar bushing and new steering stabilizer. They have death-wobble on jeeps with less than 5k miles. That used to be unheard of on stock vehicles with low mileage, how can anyone say there aren't issues? There are always first year blues, the only way they get addressed is by people making the manufacturer aware of the problem.

I have driven F-250s, dodge 2500s, large trucks and many other jeeps and this steering is like driving an old worn out SFA truck. I am not addressing this just at you but, I find it crazy that people get so aggressive assuming others "don't know how a solid front axle vehicle is supposed to drive". Just because yours is good it doesn't mean others aren't having issues that need to be addressed. When you can turn the wheel of a parked car from 10o'clock to 2o'clock and the wheels don't budge there is a problem. This isn't an IFA vehicle and no one should expect it to drive as one. But looking like a person driving a car in a movie is not how it should be.

I had a 05 LJ Rubi that I put 140k miles on with 35s and had full currie steering and control arms by the time I was done. I wore out every factory suspension part on that jeep and replaced them all. This is also not my first jeep or solid front axle. The steering box on the 05 developed some slop and it drove just like my JT does now and a friends JL did. My friend adjusted his steering box (which he was told not to do by the dealer) just like he had done on the last 5 jeeps (CJ, YJ, TJ, LJ and JK) he had and it fixed the issue for him. After driving his jeep it drives like a dream, better than any jeep I have ever been in.

When I adjusted my 05 rubi box it drove great again, 1/8th of a turn and the slop was gone.

The only thing stopping me from doing it on my new jeep is the warranty. I love my JT, it's just the steering stoping it from being perfect.

 

[Spyder]

I found this today

Not sure why FCA cant do something like this under warranty. I'm going to my dealer and find out though.

 

[jrf]

I found this today

Not sure why FCA cant do something like this under warranty. I'm going to my dealer and find out though.

Anyone on this forum tried this yet?

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