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Loose Steering?

futzin'

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ShadowsPapa

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I guess I was just in a bad mood earlier. Anyways, she’s going in to get the new box put in on monday the 13th. I will post back here that evening with all the info you want.
Btw, I could not move the input shaft by hand on the new box, that’s a good start!
When you have an issue like with the steering - it's bound to make a person not really patient and want to yell at someone. I think we get it.
When you can turn that bloody steering shaft by hand before there's even any resistance - uh, not good. I had to put 180,000 miles on a car before I had one that bad. To get one from the factory with any slop at all is frustrating AT LEAST.
 

Hoss63

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It does get frustrating chasing problems even more so on brand new, then to have dealers tell you it's fine. I'm an aircraft mechanic on heavy jets so I know my way around and know how things are supposed to work. and for them to tell me to add a duel stabilizer to the steering makes me want to hit them upside there head!
 

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ShadowsPapa

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It's not air pressure.
We've been all over this for months.
Not when you can move the shaft around before the box responds. We've had people go clear down to 22 and back up to 36 and no difference. STEERING sector looseness, track bar issues (bolts cross-threaded, not torqued correctly, etc.)

For 40" tires, yeah, you would be running that low - but lowering any lower than some are running now is suicidal.
There's a ton of discussion on this and it doesn't resolve the loose steering sector.

I bet you get a lot of push-back on this from those poor folks who have spend weeks on this or longer - trying everything from tire pressure to toe-in settings, no fix.
We're talking people with stock tires, stock vehicles. You shouldn't be running 40 psi on this tires anyway so no wonder there was trouble there.
If it was as easy as tire pressure - wouldn't ya think that months ago it would be solved? Several have already suggested that - you are not the first, but it simply doesn't work for people who truly have the play in the steering - we are talking major play, looseness, not wander, not lack of response, etc.
It may have weeded out a handful (perhaps by MASKING the true cause?), but it's not the issue.
Lowering pressure to mask an issue like a problem with track bar mounting or sector play or other issues isn't great.

I can run 85 mph and better with mine- tires aired up to 38-39, depending on the day you check. Yet another fellow with an Overland, stock tires, has steering issues - not tire pressure, otherwise I'd have the issue, as would almost anyone running the correct pressure.
 

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Gladiation

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It's not air pressure.
We've been all over this for months.
Not when you can move the shaft around before the box responds. We've had people go clear down to 22 and back up to 36 and no difference. STEERING sector looseness, track bar issues (bolts cross-threaded, not torqued correctly, etc.)

For 40" tires, yeah, you would be running that low - but lowering any lower than some are running now is suicidal.
There's a ton of discussion on this and it doesn't resolve the loose steering sector.

I bet you get a lot of push-back on this from those poor folks who have spend weeks on this or longer - trying everything from tire pressure to toe-in settings, no fix.
We're talking people with stock tires, stock vehicles. You shouldn't be running 40 psi on this tires anyway so no wonder there was trouble there.
If it was as easy as tire pressure - wouldn't ya think that months ago it would be solved? Several have already suggested that - you are not the first, but it simply doesn't work for people who truly have the play in the steering - we are talking major play, looseness, not wander, not lack of response, etc.
It may have weeded out a handful (perhaps by MASKING the true cause?), but it's not the issue.
Lowering pressure to mask an issue like a problem with track bar mounting or sector play or other issues isn't great.

I can run 85 mph and better with mine- tires aired up to 38-39, depending on the day you check. Yet another fellow with an Overland, stock tires, has steering issues - not tire pressure, otherwise I'd have the issue, as would almost anyone running the correct pressure.
My steering was loose with stock tires, I actually had already purchased the lift and 40's before even buying the Gladiator so I could do a one day build so didn't really get a chance to drive it stock but maybe 2 days but it was loose then as well, 40's and lift made it more dangerous but I'm just glad I was able to solve my problem and drive safely now. As my video states its worth a shot, but yes FCA needs to be on top of this ASAP
 

jrf

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Waiting to see if the replaced steering boxes fix the problems...if it does... is FCA making a change to the new boxes so this doesn't keep happening? I'd like to see root cause of this whole thing. Bad tolerances, bad assembly...etc
 

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Just got back from the shop. They identified the drag link assembly as being the problem and they have ordered a new one to install. I'll follow up when it's done on whether it got things tightened up. Interestingly, they must have tightened down some other components because my steering is much firmer (be it though still with the dead space). So much firmer that I thought they had switched my stabilizer into the firm setting and didn't set it back to medium. Whatever tightening up they did, had an impact for sure - just didn't fix the issue.
 

jrf

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Fellow co-worker had his RAM truck in for service and they gave him a JL two door loaner. First thing in the morning he walks into my office and says "I got a loaner for my truck today at the dealership and they gave me a Wrangler." I say "Yeah, how do you like" his response "It was terrible and terrifying to drive on the highway over here. I couldn't keep the damn thing in it's own lane."

So I log into the JL forum to see if people are having the same problems. I go into the "Issues/Repairs.." section and sure enough there is a 300+ page thread on loose steering.

While I understand for Jeep it's kind of a subjective thing. Can't really prove there is anything "wrong" with the looseness in the steering. They really are going to turn off a lot of people from buying the things if they don't fix it. He then tells me him and his wife were discussing getting one for her next car(Wrangler not Gladiator)...but not if that's how it's going to drive, she has a rather long commute to work.

BTW, I just drove it at lunch. Yep...it's not right for sure. I've definitely driven JL's in the past that drove just fine. So there is clearly some variance going on in production.
 

Scrubb84

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Fellow co-worker had his RAM truck in for service and they gave him a JL two door loaner. First thing in the morning he walks into my office and says "I got a loaner for my truck today at the dealership and they gave me a Wrangler." I say "Yeah, how do you like" his response "It was terrible and terrifying to drive on the highway over here. I couldn't keep the damn thing in it's own lane."

So I log into the JL forum to see if people are having the same problems. I go into the "Issues/Repairs.." section and sure enough there is a 300+ page thread on loose steering.

While I understand for Jeep it's kind of a subjective thing. Can't really prove there is anything "wrong" with the looseness in the steering. They really are going to turn off a lot of people from buying the things if they don't fix it. He then tells me him and his wife were discussing getting one for her next car(Wrangler not Gladiator)...but not if that's how it's going to drive, she has a rather long commute to work.

BTW, I just drove it at lunch. Yep...it's not right for sure. I've definitely driven JL's in the past that drove just fine. So there is clearly some variance going on in production.
I wonder if they (FCA) are going to look at the manufacturing of these steering boxes to find out how they are being sent out clearly bad. It really is as simple as some higher up making one phone call or even a visit to find out. Its so simple. WHO or WHAT is making the sector shaft lash so friggin bad? I can’t believe that not one single person at Jeep, FCA, or whoever hasn’t figured this out yet.
 

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jrf

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I think why this gets confusing is because it's not like the part is bad or it's not. If on a scale from 1-10 with 1 being a perfectly manufactured steering box and 10 being the worst tolerance steering box out there...people have everything from 1-10. SO for they guy with a 2-3 box...changing small things seem to make a big difference...like air pressure. But if you are the person with 8-10...air pressure isn't going to matter as much. I think that's why we are seeing some people see differences in things that get changed.

Then of course you have the additional complication of some of the track bar bolts and track bar bushings being bad...that muddies the waters even more.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I think why this gets confusing is because it's not like the part is bad or it's not. If on a scale from 1-10 with 1 being a perfectly manufactured steering box and 10 being the worst tolerance steering box out there...people have everything from 1-10. SO for they guy with a 2-3 box...changing small things seem to make a big difference...like air pressure. But if you are the person with 8-10...air pressure isn't going to matter as much. I think that's why we are seeing some people see differences in things that get changed.

Then of course you have the additional complication of some of the track bar bolts and track bar bushings being bad...that muddies the waters even more.
Different causes for similar symptoms. For about 3 years our agency had complaints about their email. They all seemed similar, so for those years the "experts" in central IT and other places struggled to find a common cause. They could not.
The boss's head was on the chopping block. He got a new boss who was hearing from the agency director who had heard from the most vocal employees.... I'd been telling my boss for several months I thought I could resolve the "email issues". Finally, during another chat about things I told him to give me a chance but we had to do certain things.
We created a detailed poll, a spreadsheet which my boss kept - and he sent messages to all users asking them to answer some simple questions. He got the director to direct everyone to respond.
I found patterns - and differences. I had all email issues resolved inside of a month - but I had to take control of the situation and the information had to be organized.

That issue - as well as the steering, can sometimes be complicated by perception - the user may see a problem and not perfectly explain it - it's not right, it's broken, it's not working. You have to narrow it down, was it specific offices or locations? What apps were the using at that time - and much more.
Here we may have seen similar - some had loose steering but no wander - the caster was fine, toe was fine....... others may have had wander and correcting that appeared as if there was loose steering. We don't know the specifics - models, when bought, equipment, tires - have they been modified vs. unmodified. (never lump the two together).

Forums are not good places for resolution unless you can control the thread and keep out the "me, too, but mine acts like this instead" because you muddy things up.
We have similar with HVAC - are there issues? Could well be - but some is absolutely perception, too. And the issues aren't all identical, so you get 10 threads about a topic that appears the same, but isn't quite.
Pretty soon it's pure chaos.

Offer still open to people around central Iowa with "steering issues" - bring it by, drive mine, I'll drive yours, we'll check the basics, what I know and narrow things down at least. May not "fix it" right there but have a better understanding of what it is not, making it easier to find what it IS.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I would dearly love to be part of the team at FCA that looks at these things. In fact, I'd work for free on this one if they'd get me to where I needed to be, or let me telecommute.
 

futzin'

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Huge sales (JL) and a lack of competition tend to make a manufacturer less likely to chase down issues, unfortunately. Not much motivation if the bottom line isn't being affected. I'm hoping Jeep begins to pay more attention to this type of issue.
 

Scrubb84

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Huge sales (JL) and a lack of competition tend to make a manufacturer less likely to chase down issues, unfortunately. Not much motivation if the bottom line isn't being affected. I'm hoping Jeep begins to pay more attention to this type of issue.
I agree. I just can’t get over the fact that this particular issue is so easily fixed at the manufacturer (as far as I can see). It’s a simple quality control check.
Can u turn the input shaft back and forth by hand?
No...Send it
Yes.....GARBAGE (or adjust it correctly then send it)
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