Loose Steering?

[JimThe4th]

Yes, preset a dead spot for stability at high speeds. As you said. You need less turning power at high speed.

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[Hoss63]

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yes, preset a dead spot for stability at high speeds. As you said. You need less turning power at high speed.

LOL - you can't program a dead spot. Pressure is for ASSIST, NOT play.
You need less turning power, yes, but that means less assist. Not a dead spot, not play. You don't want play at high speed - in fact, play is worse at high speed.
Less assist would mean RESISTANCE in the wheel - you'd actually have more feel, it would take more to turn the wheel. So what you are suggesting would be the opposite of what's happening with people.
If pressure from the pump were reduced, you'd need more effort to turn the wheel - that would mean it takes more effort to turn it - not less.
Play or loose steering means the wheel turns easily without the vehicle's front wheels responding.

Please explain how would a "dead spot" lead to stability? If the front wheels didn't respond when you moved the wheel - how would that make it more stable?
It would instead lead to lack of control if the vehicle wandered. If you needed to avoid something in the highway, a hole, a deer.......

They could reduce pump pressure because of the vehicle's natural tendency to steer more easily at speed - but there's no way they'd put a dead spot or play in there - if they even could as it's a recirculating ball sector.

By the way - I'm also trained in steering, suspension and alignment and have rebuilt countless vehicle front ends including steering systems, sectors and more.

 

[JimThe4th]

I'm trying to learn, understand, help find the solution to this problem. I appreciate the knowledge you are sharing.

I was only thinking the reduction in the pressure would cause the dead spot.

 

[Slalom]

Yes, but if the voltage changes, the hydraulic pressure changes, affecting gear box response...maybe

I'm only asking those of you out there with this above and below 50° condition to see if I'm crazy or if there is actually a correlation

I'm trying to learn, understand, help find the solution to this problem. I appreciate the knowledge you are sharing.

I was only thinking the reduction in the pressure would cause the dead spot.

Among the people that are having dead spot issues in most cases it is caused by too much play in the steering box. It is purely mechanical. Nothing to do with hydraulics or anything else. Best way to feel and isolate the steering box issue is the to feel the play when the steering is centered up and the Jeep is not running. That same play you feel in the steering box when it isn't running is the same as when your driving down the road.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Among the people that are having dead spot issues in most cases it is caused by too much play in the steering box. It is purely mechanical. Nothing to do with hydraulics or anything else. Best way to feel and isolate the steering box issue is the to feel the play when the steering is centered up and the Jeep is not running. That same play you feel in the steering box when it isn't running is the same as when your driving down the road.

That brings up a couple of things I'd been thinking about since last night - if there was any "dead spot programmed in" then ALL JTs would feel it - ALL OF THEM. Not just a select few. Fact is FEW feel it. MOST do not have that play. MOST are like mine - fine. No play, no "dead spot".
Most are good to go, worst case a bit light in the front, maybe some wander, but the steering responds and doesn't have a dead spot or PLAY in it which is the real topic at hand. PLAY, where you can move the steering wheel and the front wheels do not respond.

Another part that was brought up. Appears to me the regulated voltage on the JT is 14.4 volts. That's based on posts out and about and my own observations.
I also suggest to JimThe4th and even others - observe your voltage - the volt meter on the display in the center, off-road pages, etc. - and watch it as you go down hills, especially if braking or slowing. Watch the voltage climb.
If I were an engineer, here's what I'd think of doing, and here's what I believe they are doing - Vehicles like these with smaller engines don't have engine braking power like larger displacement engines - so they load up the alternator to apply some additional engine braking.
Watch and you'll likely see the voltage climb to 14.5 or 14.6 as you go down the hill and feel the engine braking effect.
Then when you get to the bottom or accelerate again, the voltage drops back, likely to 14.4.
The voltage above 14.4 is to add to the natural engine braking effect.
If this was a V8 - they'd probably not do that or not need to do that.
I will venture a guess here that if you are not descending down a hill or not using "engine braking" the voltage will likely top out at about 14.4. If you are going down hill and/or using engine braking, I suspect the voltage will climb over 14.4 and should top out around or about 14.6 or so.
IF you have excellent high-range hearing, you MAY here a "whine". Some women may detect it as their hearing is better in the high frequencies.
Anyway, that's my thinking.............

 

[Scrubb84]

I was told again that Jeep knows about the steering gear problem, BUT nobody knows how long it will be or what there are doing to resolve it. Are they redesigning a whole new box? IMO the only problem is the non-adjustable adjustment screw/bolt installation at the factory. But maybe there is a reason why they can’t all be adjusted correctly before going out the door that I’m overlooking. Does anyone know at what level this is known, as in the FCA chain-of-command? I just want to know how I get my service dept the authorization to fix mine asap by taking a good one from the lot. Wouldn’t that make more sense than Jeep buying it back?
As far as my ranting again, sry not sry.

 

[Slalom]

I was told again that Jeep knows about the steering gear problem, BUT nobody knows how long it will be or what there are doing to resolve it. Are they redesigning a whole new box? IMO the only problem is the non-adjustable adjustment screw/bolt installation at the factory. But maybe there is a reason why they can’t all be adjusted correctly before going out the door that I’m overlooking. Does anyone know at what level this is known, as in the FCA chain-of-command? I just want to know how I get my service dept the authorization to fix mine asap by taking a good one from the lot. Wouldn’t that make more sense than Jeep buying it back?
As far as my ranting again, sry not sry.

Really the only 2 options for Jeep to please the customers are to either allow the dealers to adjust the box or send out new steering boxes. If they deem that your play is normal you will probably be waiting around forever for a fix from Jeep.

 

[Hootbro]

I have a feeling FCA is going to take a page out of Fords playbook they used for the Ford dual clutch transmission problems on their Focus and Fusion models. When or if FCA finally gets around to addressing it, they will just do a in sequence to new production fix and deny already current owners any addressing of their current steering issues. It is my opinion that unless NTSA makes it a recall issue, FCA is going to let current owners with this problem to hang in the wind.

 

[jrf]

When or if FCA finally gets around to addressing it, they will just do a in sequence to new production fix and deny already current owners any addressing of their current steering issues. It is my opinion that unless NTSA makes it a recall issue, FCA is going to let current owners with this problem to hang in the wind.

Agreed, but it has been how many years now? Why the heck not just fix the problem (even if you had to wait for a batch to run out) on the newer vehicles. This isn't like a transmission where it would be a major component change...it's a steering box. So correct the problem with the new models AT LEAST.

 

[Scrubb84]

Does anyone know where our steering boxes are actually manufactured at? Country? Someone mentioned Korea a while back as a guess, thats my guess too. I like facts tho. Thanx

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Does anyone know where our steering boxes are actually manufactured at? Country? Someone mentioned Korea a while back as a guess, thats my guess too. I like facts tho. Thanx

A wild guess? That's about it. Amazing how people just guess on these things. I'd ask that person - what is their guess based on?
If it were made there, I'd be pretty happy if my steering sector were made there as opposed to Mexico. Korean tech is pretty damned good.
I'd take parts made there over made in many other places. I've compared - directly.

But there's a bigger picture here - when parts are made in places outside of the U.S. - the OEM - Jeep/FCA, for example, STILL specifies the specs and must inspect the parts. They often also inspect the facilities where the parts are made. That's how things are done.
So no matter where the parts are made, it's on FCA - they make the specs, they inspect the parts, they are obliged to inspect the facilities and processes, they are responsible for the final product.

 

[Scrubb84]

A wild guess? That's about it. Amazing how people just guess on these things. I'd ask that person - what is their guess based on?
If it were made there, I'd be pretty happy if my steering sector were made there as opposed to Mexico. Korean tech is pretty damned good.
I'd take parts made there over made in many other places. I've compared - directly.

But there's a bigger picture here - when parts are made in places outside of the U.S. - the OEM - Jeep/FCA, for example, STILL specifies the specs and must inspect the parts. They often also inspect the facilities where the parts are made. That's how things are done.
So no matter where the parts are made, it's on FCA - they make the specs, they inspect the parts, they are obliged to inspect the facilities and processes, they are responsible for the final product.

I agree. Im not trying to blame anyone. I have a lot of free time and due for a vaca. Maybe I could vaca and find this place at the same time, I could buy a GOOD steering box and bring it home to my baby.
Just another dum@$$ idea I had today.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I agree. Im not trying to blame anyone. I have a lot of free time and due for a vaca. Maybe I could vaca and find this place at the same time, I could buy a GOOD steering box and bring it home to my baby.
Just another dum@$$ idea I had today.

And here I sit with the flu, on drugs for other stuff too, unable to work outside, stuck inside....... I hate it. I rarely ever took a vacation from work as I hated time where I didn't have a clear purpose.

Maybe we need to arrange a forum tour of the Jeep JT plants.
I've been through other factories, but not Jeep.

 

[Scrubb84]

And here I sit with the flu, on drugs for other stuff too, unable to work outside, stuck inside....... I hate it. I rarely ever took a vacation from work as I hated time where I didn't have a clear purpose.

Maybe we need to arrange a forum tour of the Jeep JT plants.
I've been through other factories, but not Jeep.

I would definitely do that.

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