LSD Equipped Gladiators Better Than Rubicon in Snow ?

[dcmdon]

You can't go backwards or forwards in it. Sometimes if you keep rocking reverse and forward, it'll eventually break free. But you can barely even walk on it. Lockers or lsd help, because usually at least one wheel can spin through to get some traction, but with all open, the slipping wheel just keeps spinning, holding the vehicle in place. My old TJ would get stuck in place all the time in deep snow, because of open diffs. My STI would not care snow was there, with the locking center diff and two lsds. I get the feeling your snow is much deeper and ours is much slipperier. Ours is like mush. And it's really really wet most of the time. It compacts down really easily under the vehicle, so no high centering. But when it does so, it fills your siping/treads. End result: no forwards, no backwards. Stuck.

I was on ice in my Gladiator this winter that was so slick I couldn't back forwards or backwards. I was eventually able to rock it enough to get moving.

Lets add some more realism to the discussion. Its pretty difficult to get actually stuck in a Gladiator in the snow.

I've spoken a lot about stability while moving at speeds of say 20 and above.

But another thing is stability when accelerating away from a stop. Lets say 0-20. This is where even the best vehicles on the best tires can feel squirrely.

And like everywhere else. Nothing is more important than tires.

Which again brings up my confusion at the OP's problem. He's already on Blizzaks. And he's an experienced snow driver.

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[Glad_he_ate]

Been driving in the snow sense I was 16, matter of fact I took my road test in unplowed snowy conditions in a rear wheel drive stick shift with no power steering… I’ve had front, rear, all, and 4 wheel drives over the years also had lsd and front and rear lockers in my zr2.. if you want the absolute best snow rig get your frame as far from the ground as you can with a set of aggressive tires that clean out well. And a lsd with a little weight in the ass! No argument to be had. Also and this one is important! Slow the fuck down!!

 

[Gvsukids]

??

Lets add some more realism to the discussion. Its pretty difficult to get actually stuck in a Gladiator in the snow.

I was stuck alongside a road where driver side tires were on hard packed snow and the passenger side were wedged in a ditch with soft snow. That was on the Dueller A/T stock tires.

 

[dcmdon]

??

I was stuck alongside a road where driver side tires were on hard packed snow and the passenger side were wedged in a ditch with soft snow. That was on the Dueller A/T stock tires.

I said difficult, not impossible.

Ha.

I had a similar thing happen to me. The ditch had been filled in by a plow and looked even with the road. When I want to make a 3 point turn to turn around, I swung into the "shoulder" and the front end went into the ditch.

It was easy for me to back out because I was on a pretty steep uphill. But if it was flat, I might have needed some help. Oops.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

I guess I don't consider it being icy/slippery and you can't go any further as being stuck as you can still back out of it. Stuck is stuck you can't go backwards or forwards and in the case of snow that is due to being high centered and lack of traction. Never had that issue with hard packed snow/ice. But anyway, if it's that slippery lockers won't help you anyway as you'll just have more tires spinning. In that case a fresh supply of sand, tire choice and/or chains will be way more beneficial than lockers.

Tires are of course #1, but that's not my experience with lockers.

Lockers help a lot when wheeling in snow. Much easier to climb with the rear locked vs unlocked. Both rear tires spinning is better for momentum.

I once had an ELocker fail while on a snow wheeling trip in northern Michigan. My Jeep struggled the rest of the trip without the rear locker.

 

[MikeyK]

You can't go backwards or forwards in it. Sometimes if you keep rocking reverse and forward, it'll eventually break free. But you can barely even walk on it. Lockers or lsd help, because usually at least one wheel can spin through to get some traction, but with all open, the slipping wheel just keeps spinning, holding the vehicle in place. My old TJ would get stuck in place all the time in deep snow, because of open diffs. My STI would not care snow was there, with the locking center diff and two lsds. I get the feeling your snow is much deeper and ours is much slipperier. Ours is like mush. And it's really really wet most of the time. It compacts down really easily under the vehicle, so no high centering. But when it does so, it fills your siping/treads. End result: no forwards, no backwards. Stuck.

I have had the exact same experiences here in central PA. Our Subaru and any of our LSD Jeeps/Gladiator were/are better than my 12 Rubicon with open diffs.

I’d still take the Rubicon if I’m off-road, but the others in normal snow/winter conditions.

 

[seven30]

I have had the exact same experiences here in central PA. Our Subaru and any of our LSD Jeeps/Gladiator were/are better than my 12 Rubicon with open diffs.

I’d still take the Rubicon if I’m off-road, but the others in normal snow/winter conditions.

I figure the contribution LSD makes for snow/ice depends on the total package like suspension compliance and weight distribution.

The Mojave has done well in Colorado snow so far. It has pretty compliant suspension and haven't needed the locker anywhere I would not have used it anyway. I guess the bld stuff is doing its job.

 

[BlueScapegoat]

I wish it had an LSD/Selectable combo diff, I really don't know why that's not a thing anymore, with anyone. My '05 Rubicon has the factory geared LSD/selectable locker combo and it's fantastic. The LSD really helps in the snow. I like to go sideways a lot and it's just tossable, controllable, and will go anywhere in 2wd in MN winter. I only throw it into 4hi on days when it's really squirrely.

I tried out a first gen Raptor as a daily for about 12 months a couple years ago and the open rear diff just killed it for me. Great in off road mode with the rear locked, if not a bit under powered, but just kind of lame in street mode and 2wd. These newer vehicles with open diffs try to fake the LSD by applying brake to the spinning tire but it's just not the same feel. It pulled power from the engine like crazy too but that's another thing.

At least the Gladiator isn't supposed to be a fast truck, so I'll live with it. And hop in the TJ when I want to get rowdy

 

[The Duck of Earl]

I wish it had an LSD/Selectable combo diff, I really don't know why that's not a thing anymore, with anyone.

LSDs are being phased out generally across all vehicles (aide from premium sport car offerings at an additional uncharge - think Porsche and S model Audis, and the sole holdout in the truck world seems to be on vehicles marketed for towing) for costs reasons. The BLD systems are a few line of codes that can be implemented across the lineup with no extra hardware costs, as ABS systems that implement the logic are already there. Consumer choice is also pushing this, as clearly many people in the off road sector want the full locker and the marketing departments play this up.

 

[Jack D.]

Have to disagree with being jacked up and running aggressive AT’s.

most snow driving here is on compacted snow. If you stay within the tire widths you can get pretty good speeds and remain stable. Even going through deeper snow I find a true winter, like Blizzaks or Hakka r3’s, and a lower center of gravity to be more secure than 3 peak AT’s. and being up high. This just holds traction better.

 

[Jack D.]

LSD being phased out and AWD being phased in

I have AWD on my Maverick. In Slippery mode it’s great for 95% of snow conditions but I put it into Sand mode when climbing steep hills in deep snow. This basically shuts off traction control and powers all 4 wheels. So closest to open diff 4WD you’ll get on an AWD

also has the brake traction which works well as an anchor point.

kinda the best of both worlds. I but it’s wifeys.

 

[InvertedAerialX]

New F-150 Raptor and Optional on F-150 Tremor, rear locker with Torsen LSD front end. As a Canadian on the East Coast, I'd like to weigh in and say that the Auto 4WD system (on the old 2012 - 2017 F-150) got me through 99% of anything and everything I have ever needed. When i need the extra boost, Lock up the rear. I have driven through 2ft of snow (powder and wet & heavy) and hard pack like ice. We get it all. I am going to have to say the one thing that has not been mentioned , is the brain. If you have it in your head that the LSD is the best, then no matter what you drive, the LSD in your mind will ALWAYS be better than anything else. If you believe that 4WD if better with open Diff's then guess what, it will drive better to you.

When it starts becoming personal preference, that's all it is. LSD's have advantages and disadvantages, lockers have advantages and disadvantages.

Read this a LONG time ago, not sure it really applies now, but 4WD just gets you stuck deeper in the forest!

Snow and are completely unpredictable beasts, maybe one day someone somewhere will figure it out, but for right now, whatever YOU believe to be best, you will drive better in the snow and ice.

again this is just my opinion, but seems logical to me.

 

[Rusty PW]

I wish it had an LSD/Selectable combo diff, I really don't know why that's not a thing anymore, with anyone. My '05 Rubicon has the factory geared LSD/selectable locker combo and it's fantastic. The LSD really helps in the snow. I like to go sideways a lot and it's just tossable, controllable, and will go anywhere in 2wd in MN winter. I only throw it into 4hi on days when it's really squirrely.

I tried out a first gen Raptor as a daily for about 12 months a couple years ago and the open rear diff just killed it for me. Great in off road mode with the rear locked, if not a bit under powered, but just kind of lame in street mode and 2wd. These newer vehicles with open diffs try to fake the LSD by applying brake to the spinning tire but it's just not the same feel. It pulled power from the engine like crazy too but that's another thing.

At least the Gladiator isn't supposed to be a fast truck, so I'll live with it. And hop in the TJ when I want to get rowdy

All Ram Power Wagons have a gear driven LSD in the rear, plus lockers front and rear. I miss the LSD plus locker on my JTRD.

 

[dcmdon]

Have to disagree with being jacked up and running aggressive AT’s.

most snow driving here is on compacted snow. If you stay within the tire widths you can get pretty good speeds and remain stable. Even going through deeper snow I find a true winter, like Blizzaks or Hakka r3’s, and a lower center of gravity to be more secure than 3 peak AT’s. and being up high. This just holds traction better.

A taller vehicle is more likely to unload and spin the inside wheel while going around a turn.

Though again we need to differentiate between getting unstuck and general manners in the snow. Jacked up is good to keep you from getting stuck. but once you are moving it creates more weight shift which is a definite negative.

 

[Pappyjp21]

Living in lakes region NH and having experience with both snow and ice I would say a limited slip is the way to go in those conditions.Locking diffentials are too extemes at speed and grab at cornering ,open diffs leave you tractionless and wheels spinning. I have heard of locking differentials making the backend loose traction and spin the vehicle around..not good!

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