Nice honest review on EcoDiesel

biodiesel

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FWIW - I have 14' WK2 ecoD with almost 118k on it and (knock on wood) no engine problems ever. Currently have aftermarket tune - increased power, get 25mpg mixed, and haven't had a regen in 7k miles. Wish I could PnP this engine into a JT now instead of waiting....
Our bone stock 2015 Ram EcoDiesel has 84,000 miles and no engine problems. We'll be getting a Wrangler EcoDiesel for my wife sometime next year.





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fjavier

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I know this is the jeep gladiator forum, but I just like I did in the wrangler forum I am looking for your opinions about the diesel. I recently test drove one and I really enjoyed it. My concern is how reliable will this engine be in certain use cases so I reached out to a well know diesel tuner to ask them their opinions. I am posting my email and their response since many of you already own diesels and curious if you agree or disagree with the response.

Here is my original email:

I am considering buying a jeep wrangler diesel mainly as a daily driver but also as a weekend rock crawler and on rare occasions for a long overland trip. I am reaching out to you guys based on your reputation for putting out clean and performant diesel tunes which naturally means you know modern diesel engines well. I have several questions that hopefully you can answer.

1) Do you feel that the 3rd gen eco-diesel is a reliable engine based on the research you have done with your tuning?

2) Is the 3rd generation eco-diesel a good engine for slow rock crawling for several days. I know it has great torque, but it is my understanding when this diesel engine travels at slow almost idling speed that it can't burn soot efficiently leading to problems. Is this true? Can your tuning help out in this use case?

3) Are you aware of any potential issues were the exhaust emission system which runs extremely hot, is suddenly emerged in the water? I am concerned about water crossings and the effect it can have on the emission system.

4) If I will be doing my daily driving 75% in the city (start and stop traffic) and only 25% on the highway will this driving pattern lead to a lot of soot problems? If yes, will your tuning help with this pattern of driving?

5) When will you be releasing your tune for the Jeep Wrangler Diesel in California?

---- Response:
To your questions:

1) Hard to say at this point. The prior 2014-2019 engine was plagued with a number of mechanical issues in the bottom end of the engine, I don’t think FCA has sold enough of the Gen3 engines to really know if this has been solved or not.

2) The engine has okay torque but suffers a lot in its ability to deliver torque predictably and right when you press the pedal. The 442lb-ft # is what they advertise on paper but I’d say only in very limited situations can you actually get it. At some point it will need to do a regen while overlanding or rock-crawling, and this can’t be done at idle or very slow speeds. If you keep driving it in that situation, you’ll eventually end up in the condition where you have to get to a dealer for stationary regen. Hard to say if our tuning can definitely solve this right now.

3) The most delicate part is the DEF system, specifically the DEF injector. If it gets a blast of water while entering a creek or something, it could break off. When that happens you’ll get the “XX miles until engine will not restart” message. Not being able to start the Jeep in the middle of nowhere is a daunting proposition. I don’t think water splash onto a hot exhaust would be any worse than driving thru a large puddle on the road.

4) Diesels don’t like a primarily city-oriented drive cycle: you’ll constantly be in modes designed to heat up the exhaust (these modes make a lot of soot), and you’ll eventually face the same type of regen-necessary scenario like above. Our tuning will generally extend the regen intervals, but you still have to do one eventually.

5) Everything in California has to be emissions-compliant and CARB certified: this latter part adds a lot of time. It wouldn’t be until next summer at the earlier.

Honestly speaking given the price premium being charged for the diesel I’d take a hard look at the two gas engines given your primary use case of the Jeep.

Let us know if we can help with anything else.
 

biodiesel

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I am posting my email and their response since many of you already own diesels and curious if you agree or disagree with the response.
I look forward to addressing some of these questions. Before doing so, I would like to know who the tuning company is that gave you this feedback?
 

fjavier

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it was GDE. I was really appreciative that they took the time to respond to my questions, however, I am asking in this forum as well since I want to get a wide range of opinions. @biodiesel I would appreciate your feedback. Thanks
 

biodiesel

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it was GDE. I was really appreciative that they took the time to respond to my questions, however, I am asking in this forum as well since I want to get a wide range of opinions. @biodiesel I would appreciate your feedback. Thanks
I had a feeling that GDE responded to your questions since he would be the best equipped to answer these types of questions.

He is right in that we don't really know what the Gen. III engine is capable of. And he hasn't had a chance to really dive into it. I personally believe that FCA has done a good job vetting the new engine and tuning it so that it will handle most off-road expedition styles of driving. We know that VM Motori put the engines on boats and ran them day and night for testing. We also know that the Wrangler and Gladiator EcoDiesels were in Moab for testing. If overland/expedition style wasn't possible, I don't think FCA would be offering the EcoDiesel as an option in the Wrangler and Gladiator. To what extreme did they test the vehicle? I don't know.

Keep in mind, there are tuned EcoDiesel engines from the 2nd generation that now have over 300,000 miles on them. I'm confident that the gen. III engine will be more durable than the gen. II engine.

Truth be told, we just don't know the level of durability and reliability until it's been done. My backyard is a national forest. I've taken my stock 2015 Ram EcoDiesel down some very long forest roads (2+ hours of 20 mph or under driving). I haven't had a forced regen problem during those times. Before COVID-19, I was driving my truck 2 miles to work and 2 miles home. During the winter months, I would occasionally have to take the truck out on the highway to clean it out, especially if that's all the driving I did for a few weeks. I started using Hot Shot's Secret Diesel Extreme (once every six months), and that problem never occurred again.

If I were you, I would wait another 6 months and keep watching the Wrangler EcoDiesel forums. Those guys have the engines and they are more likely to do the type of driving you are wanting to do. They should be able to give you good feedback.
 
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I know this is the jeep gladiator forum, but I just like I did in the wrangler forum I am looking for your opinions about the diesel. I recently test drove one and I really enjoyed it. My concern is how reliable will this engine be in certain use cases so I reached out to a well know diesel tuner to ask them their opinions. I am posting my email and their response since many of you already own diesels and curious if you agree or disagree with the response.

Here is my original email:

I am considering buying a jeep wrangler diesel mainly as a daily driver but also as a weekend rock crawler and on rare occasions for a long overland trip. I am reaching out to you guys based on your reputation for putting out clean and performant diesel tunes which naturally means you know modern diesel engines well. I have several questions that hopefully you can answer.

1) Do you feel that the 3rd gen eco-diesel is a reliable engine based on the research you have done with your tuning?

2) Is the 3rd generation eco-diesel a good engine for slow rock crawling for several days. I know it has great torque, but it is my understanding when this diesel engine travels at slow almost idling speed that it can't burn soot efficiently leading to problems. Is this true? Can your tuning help out in this use case?

3) Are you aware of any potential issues were the exhaust emission system which runs extremely hot, is suddenly emerged in the water? I am concerned about water crossings and the effect it can have on the emission system.

4) If I will be doing my daily driving 75% in the city (start and stop traffic) and only 25% on the highway will this driving pattern lead to a lot of soot problems? If yes, will your tuning help with this pattern of driving?

5) When will you be releasing your tune for the Jeep Wrangler Diesel in California?

---- Response:
To your questions:

1) Hard to say at this point. The prior 2014-2019 engine was plagued with a number of mechanical issues in the bottom end of the engine, I don’t think FCA has sold enough of the Gen3 engines to really know if this has been solved or not.

2) The engine has okay torque but suffers a lot in its ability to deliver torque predictably and right when you press the pedal. The 442lb-ft # is what they advertise on paper but I’d say only in very limited situations can you actually get it. At some point it will need to do a regen while overlanding or rock-crawling, and this can’t be done at idle or very slow speeds. If you keep driving it in that situation, you’ll eventually end up in the condition where you have to get to a dealer for stationary regen. Hard to say if our tuning can definitely solve this right now.

3) The most delicate part is the DEF system, specifically the DEF injector. If it gets a blast of water while entering a creek or something, it could break off. When that happens you’ll get the “XX miles until engine will not restart” message. Not being able to start the Jeep in the middle of nowhere is a daunting proposition. I don’t think water splash onto a hot exhaust would be any worse than driving thru a large puddle on the road.

4) Diesels don’t like a primarily city-oriented drive cycle: you’ll constantly be in modes designed to heat up the exhaust (these modes make a lot of soot), and you’ll eventually face the same type of regen-necessary scenario like above. Our tuning will generally extend the regen intervals, but you still have to do one eventually.

5) Everything in California has to be emissions-compliant and CARB certified: this latter part adds a lot of time. It wouldn’t be until next summer at the earlier.

Honestly speaking given the price premium being charged for the diesel I’d take a hard look at the two gas engines given your primary use case of the Jeep.

Let us know if we can help with anything else.
I actually like their responses. Very honest answers, and very precise. They sound like a trustworthy shop. EDIT: I just saw that it was GDE. Those guys are top notch. I worked with Keith on a Jeep diesel years ago and had phenomenal results.

You should follow the 3rd Gen EcoDiesel pages on FB. The Ram guys, in particular, have been using this engine for several months and I've seen a few of them on tow trucks already. One guy last week posted a total engine failure at 3,000ish miles. It's going to be interesting to see how these engines do over time.
 

TheSolarWizard

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Forums are a weird place for information. If my motor is garbage I’ll know long before the 100k powertrain expires. I’m definitely not scared to try it out.

If it acts up around the end of that, I’ll take a trip through *Canada* and have it rebuilt and adjusted properly. Even doing that I’m way ahead of a supercharger in terms of cash and the other option which is a V8 swap

Either way this is my very last internal combustion New vehicle purchase and that’s scary and exciting at the same time
 

camodog

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Agreed! I also believe this will be my last ICE for a new vehicle. Exciting and scary is correct
 

wvyankee2

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FCA will provide a rental until the new part is available.
True that. They gave me a brand new JLU Sahara Turbo to use for a week while I waited for a leaking pinion seal on my Gladiator to be replaced.
 

ArmyJeepGuy666

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Why the hell is this such a huge price difference from the non diesel? With the price of the 3.6 auto it should not be THAT much to get the diesel......The pricing seems off to me
 

biodiesel

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Why the hell is this such a huge price difference from the non diesel? With the price of the 3.6 auto it should not be THAT much to get the diesel......The pricing seems off to me
Explain with numbers, please.
 

biodiesel

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2.8 Duramax is a $4k up charge from their 3.6l V6 in the Colorado, seems pretty consistent for the market.
Exactly! Here's what I found on the Wrangler.

"2020 Jeep Wrangler order guide shows 3.0L EcoDiesel is a $4K option. JLWranglerForums, the same folks who broke pricing on the 2020 Jeep Wrangler range, got the scoop on pricing for the 3.0-liter EcoDiesel V6 option. The third-generation oil-burner will be a $4,000 option — $995 less than on the 2020 Ram 1500 — but will require the beefier 8HP75 eight-speed automatic that adds another $2,000. The diesel won't be offered with Jeep's six-speed manual. The pricing puts around $3,250 between the EcoDiesel and the 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 with an automatic, depending on which trim gets chosen"
 

RH 67

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I know this is the jeep gladiator forum, but I just like I did in the wrangler forum I am looking for your opinions about the diesel. I recently test drove one and I really enjoyed it. My concern is how reliable will this engine be in certain use cases so I reached out to a well know diesel tuner to ask them their opinions. I am posting my email and their response since many of you already own diesels and curious if you agree or disagree with the response.

Here is my original email:

I am considering buying a jeep wrangler diesel mainly as a daily driver but also as a weekend rock crawler and on rare occasions for a long overland trip. I am reaching out to you guys based on your reputation for putting out clean and performant diesel tunes which naturally means you know modern diesel engines well. I have several questions that hopefully you can answer.

1) Do you feel that the 3rd gen eco-diesel is a reliable engine based on the research you have done with your tuning?

2) Is the 3rd generation eco-diesel a good engine for slow rock crawling for several days. I know it has great torque, but it is my understanding when this diesel engine travels at slow almost idling speed that it can't burn soot efficiently leading to problems. Is this true? Can your tuning help out in this use case?

3) Are you aware of any potential issues were the exhaust emission system which runs extremely hot, is suddenly emerged in the water? I am concerned about water crossings and the effect it can have on the emission system.

4) If I will be doing my daily driving 75% in the city (start and stop traffic) and only 25% on the highway will this driving pattern lead to a lot of soot problems? If yes, will your tuning help with this pattern of driving?

5) When will you be releasing your tune for the Jeep Wrangler Diesel in California?

---- Response:
To your questions:

1) Hard to say at this point. The prior 2014-2019 engine was plagued with a number of mechanical issues in the bottom end of the engine, I don’t think FCA has sold enough of the Gen3 engines to really know if this has been solved or not.

2) The engine has okay torque but suffers a lot in its ability to deliver torque predictably and right when you press the pedal. The 442lb-ft # is what they advertise on paper but I’d say only in very limited situations can you actually get it. At some point it will need to do a regen while overlanding or rock-crawling, and this can’t be done at idle or very slow speeds. If you keep driving it in that situation, you’ll eventually end up in the condition where you have to get to a dealer for stationary regen. Hard to say if our tuning can definitely solve this right now.

3) The most delicate part is the DEF system, specifically the DEF injector. If it gets a blast of water while entering a creek or something, it could break off. When that happens you’ll get the “XX miles until engine will not restart” message. Not being able to start the Jeep in the middle of nowhere is a daunting proposition. I don’t think water splash onto a hot exhaust would be any worse than driving thru a large puddle on the road.

4) Diesels don’t like a primarily city-oriented drive cycle: you’ll constantly be in modes designed to heat up the exhaust (these modes make a lot of soot), and you’ll eventually face the same type of regen-necessary scenario like above. Our tuning will generally extend the regen intervals, but you still have to do one eventually.

5) Everything in California has to be emissions-compliant and CARB certified: this latter part adds a lot of time. It wouldn’t be until next summer at the earlier.

Honestly speaking given the price premium being charged for the diesel I’d take a hard look at the two gas engines given your primary use case of the Jeep.

Let us know if we can help with anything else.
The diesel tuner is spot on. I have posted on this forum about regen during off roading but the so called diesel experts here took issue but your diesel tuner said what i said. It`s plain fact the harder a diesel engine works the more often it goes into regen.

I have driven diesels since the 70`s in both cars and trucks and i currently own three a Jag XE 70d, 2019 F-250 and a MB Sprinter 4x4. Diesels have their place i just do not see it in a Gladiator. Having owned my Gladiator for a year now i do not why a diesel would be needed, it`s a truck but in all honesty it`s a lite duty truck it might have fair to good tow ratings but honestly i would never tow anywhere near their max tow rating. If you really feel that you need a diesel than get a diesel in another truck. And for off roading the gas motor has done everything i have asked of it with the diesel you have just multiplied what can go wrong and if they go into regen at the wrong time your going to be in a world of hurt.

I also live in Cali. and if it were up to our state there would be no diesels on the road.
 

Gladman

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I‘ll add to the conversation with my experience having owned a Gen2 3.0 in a Ram 1500.
First off, the earlier engines were delivered with incorrect oil spec - 5W-30 - albeit the Eurospec oil. In July 2016 the oil spec got changed to 5W-40, and the recommendation is Rotella T6. My truck had the oil changeover before I bought it from dealer stock. So once the decision was made to change the oil spec, every truck with the 3.0 on dealer lots got an oil change to the new spec. This reduced bottom end failures drastically.
Prior to this issue, the Gen1 engines had a design flaw in the top end in that there was a single retaining bolt for the camshafts which could come loose and run the top end to destruction.

Important to note that these failures were not every engine produced, not even close. I spent a lot of time on the RamForum and at that time specific numbers were researched at the percentage of engine failures vs engines that had no issues. I don’t remember exact numbers, but I do remember that these were in line with all other auto manufacturers when introducing new product.

Point is, there are no mass produced mechanical components that will have a zero failure rate.
Example: Kodak had a plant in New York (somewhere) and the production line had about 80,000 bearing in service while running. Bearings would get changed throughout the year as they failed.
At annual shutdown all bearings were analyzed, and at a set wear point changed. Still, many failures during the year. Kodak team then analyzed all the new bearings and came up with a 9% failure rate. This, from one of the top 3 bearing manufacturers in the world. ( I used to be a maintenance manager in industrial settings, mostly mining, and would get case studies online)

If the auto industry has even 5% failure rate, they are within the manufacturing margin of error, and this is planned and budgeted for by the manufacturers. Some will do better, some worse. This failure rate budget is priced in to the sales prices.

Now, put this to the ED and yes, there will be failures. I put almost 50,000 miles on my Ram 1500 ED and had no issues with it at all. It was the best running truck I ever drove and believe me I have run many trucks over my 50 years of driving, both my own and work vehicles. After buying a GC with the 3.6 gasser, a year in and I can’t wait to get my JT with a 3.0. I just have to hope I get one of the 95% produced that have no issues.
 

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