Not impressed with Gladiator performance in snow

[IamPro2A]

Wait, you got 8” of snow already? Where in NH?

Probably around the same area as I am. I did not drive the JT in it, but it was a very wet, slippery snow when I cleared it with my tractor. I don't think the OP's wider tires helped any, but to be fair, it wasn't the typical powder we get either.

Fun fact about OP’s state, New Hampshire - They get more snow there than any other state in the U.S. (including Alaska - 80 inches per year across the state)

New Hampshire gets 174 inches per year on average across the state.

Don’t be fooled though…the mountains in Alaska get like 500+ inches per year.

I see where you found that stat, but it does not jive with any of the other usual sources. I suspect maybe they included Mt Washington in there, which really skews things. More realistically would be around 75-90" for anyplace people actually live, depending on where in the state.

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[legacy_etu]

My wife would be very envious. I don't dare tell her about this. She's been hoping for a VERY snowy winter since last winter and we just got dribbled on here and there.
She'd love to see several inches of snow 2 or 3 times this winter. A foot of snow would make her very happy.


I stuck with mostly stock size tires when I went Generals - a bit wider, but don't really want wider than these if I ever go more diameter.

Ha, funny my wife enjoys the snow too. In fact she’s kinda commandeered the snowblower whenever the white stuff flies. Fine with me! Although I’m not sure she likes the new larger Toro snowblower I picked up.
My impression is Iowa gets lots of snow. Is that not the case?

 

[danend]

That was a big problem searching for a purple Wrangler for my wife - SelecTrac was an absolute necessity. It needs to be put in 4H auto and left there from first snow until it's all over, or for that matter, left there so it would be more like the Grand Cherokees she was so used to. No way she could fuss with shifting in and out of 4H with the standard transfer case.
What I found was that almost no Wranglers had SelecTrac - the few that did were lacking so many other things we wanted.
But the 4xe comes standard with it.

4H Auto was one of the mandatory factory features when buying my JTR as well. We have it in my wife’s JLUR 4XE and after having a JLUR without it before, the difference was night and day on snowy roads.

 

[troverman]

Wait, you got 8” of snow already? Where in NH?

We did - I live in Western NH, near the CT River, just south of the "Upper Valley" area. Lower elevations got a little less. This is actually the third time it has snowed this year. First storm was about 2" and went away by the next day. Second storm was a dusting. This one has already melted by about 50% but I think it might stay. The forecasters told us this is an "El Nino" year which should make our winter warmer and wetter, but forecasters are rarely correct. Who knows.

Tires matter more than anything in snow, 285 is a wide tire and prone to floating and not engaging well. I ran 255 pizza cutters, 265 and 285 on my last vehicle and the 255 was by far the best in snow. That's based on running the same vehicle in the same conditions on the same roads, just with different tire widths.

Just FYI, my tires are 295 width. Pretty wide, but I've run a number of 3/4 and 1-ton pickups with 35x12.5x18 which are wider and they seem to do OK, and this is with at least 50psi in them. Maybe its the added weight, who knows. My plow truck is a Ford F-550 diesel 4x4 dump truck running Sumitomo ST909 traction tires all the way around at size 225x70x19/5. Skinny, but load range G (14-ply) and 110psi. The rear duals actually don't help in the snow, to prove your point. But the weight of the truck makes is go pretty well and do its task well. It doesn't have Select-Trac either, lol.

I chose Mickey Thompson Baja Boss A/T 255/85R17 (35x10x17) on base Mojave wheels. Matching spare tire/wheel underneath.

Nice looking Jeep, I really like it. However, your tires are 34.1" tall, not 35. My 295/70/18 are actually a hair taller.

Pictured above with 1.5” wheel spacers, but I took them off shortly after installing. The tire’s sidebiters are so “aggressive,” they didn’t sit as tucked as I was afraid they would. Quite flush actually. Besides, keeping all the salt fly contained is far more ideal than aesthetics.

The spacers don't matter, you're going to get road salt all over your vehicle no matter what. My JT is the only vehicle I've ever put wheel spacers on and it doesn't seem to get any saltier than any other totally stock vehicle. Salt is just a fact of life - the state and the municipalities are going to use your tax dollars to cover the road in a substance that destroys your expensive investment prematurely, so that all the terrible drivers in their crappy cars with crappy tires can safely make it to Wal-Mart.

I’m telling you guys…

My 2250lb 2wd Miata with 3” of ground clearance is better than my JTRD on snowy / icy roads.

its all in the tires. Everything else only kinda matters.

You will not understand this until you have had an actual winter tire.

OP, find a set of takeoff wheels and put snow tires on them, it will be the best investment you make for winter safety.

winter tires make an astonishing difference.

Sir, I will call total and complete BS on your Miata / winter tire story. In my original post, I stated on the steepest part of the snow-covered hill I came to a stop in the Jeep (and later the Rover) and then took off. The Jeep struggled but got going. The Rover got going pretty easily. Your Miata would have never gotten going. I don't think your car would have made the climb at all. I'm very familiar with dedicated winter tires. I have previously run Blizzaks and Nokian Hakkapeliita snows; the Nokians were studded. Snows can make a world of difference, but they don't change the laws of physics. Without forward traction on the front and rear, on a steep incline the weight of the vehicle overcomes the available forward traction at the rear. No matter how good your snows are - and I think Blizzaks are the best - they are not the same as taking off on dry pavement. I'm including a picture of my F-350 pickup in the snow a couple years ago. This truck is fitted with 6 non-studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT2 10-ply dedicated snow tires. In the past I had also tried the studded version of this tire but the studs kick out too easily with the torque of these vehicles. I find these snow tires help slow the vehicle down a little better and make it handle in snow and slippery conditions better, but not night and day. It is useful but not a replacement for 4x4 or AWD. Now your advice on a second set of wheels with dedicated snows on my JT is something I was already mulling and I might do. A set of JT Sport 17" rims with Blizzaks in the stock 31.5" size. That's good advice, thanks.

Probably around the same area as I am. I did not drive the JT in it, but it was a very wet, slippery snow when I cleared it with my tractor. I don't think the OP's wider tires helped any, but to be fair, it wasn't the typical powder we get either.
I see where you found that stat, but it does not jive with any of the other usual sources. I suspect maybe they included Mt Washington in there, which really skews things. More realistically would be around 75-90" for anyplace people actually live, depending on where in the state.

I'm on the western side of the state right near the Connecticut River pretty near the Vermont border, just a little south of the Upper Valley area. I also agree with you on the snow stats. Pretty record year would be 120" or so, which we do occasionally see. But typically where I live its about 80-100". I'm active in the snowmobiling scene up here, and we do monitor snow totals. Some years are really crappy and we get less than 50". I recall very clearly the storm we had in mid-December of 2020. Weather forecasters the night before pretty uniformly said 3-6" storm and gave us a "winter weather advisory" and not a winter storm warning. By noon the next day we had received 43" of snow. Most snow I've ever seen in my life at one time. Plow truck was stuck; resorted to using the tractor and helped a lot of neighbors in my area.

 

[DailyMoparGuy]

I see where you found that stat, but it does not jive with any of the other usual sources. I suspect maybe they included Mt Washington in there, which really skews things. More realistically would be around 75-90" for anyplace people actually live, depending on where in the state.

Yea, I agree. I literally just heard it from a YouTube video the other day. I looked it up in disbelief and saw some stats saying the same. I’m skeptical that Alaska’s mountains weren’t included in their stats maybe but I don’t know.

The weather events on Mt Washington (and probably the surrounding mountains too) are kind of anomalies it seems….insane snowfall per year vs the rest of Eastern US, one of the highest wind speeds ever recorded (231 mph). It even hit 171 mph in 2019. Just more to your point, those mountains definitely skew things a lot.

Anyways I’m getting a little off topic here. I just like stats and geography…carry on!

 

[Chunky White]

People like to bash on all the computerized traction control stuff they put in vehicles like the Range Rovers because it's not "true 4x4". But it works extremely well for things like snowy roads and day to day driving.

I agree 100%. I have driven Grand Cherokees with Quadradrive for many years and never once had trouble in snow. I have had more trouble in mid sized trucks and the 94 YJ with open diff's than I have anything else. I will see how well my JTR does this winter hopefully

 

[Swordfish44]

Interesting responses. I'm very familiar with the 4x4 system in the Jeep, the Rover, and many other rigs out there (I said I was an experienced off-road enthusiast). The road was snow-covered with probably 3-4 inches of snow with maybe one set of tire tracks. No, I was not in 4-low. I can't think of any reason to use gear reduction on-road. As for people commenting about Select-Trac or whatever Jeep calls their automated 4x4 system vs the basic part-time system I have, its nonsense that Select-Trac would outperform Command-Trac on snow covered roads. After all, consider what the automatic system does...it supplies power to the front axle automatically when slip occurs using a clutch and sensors, up to 50-50 split front to rear. The Command-Trac part-time supplies 50-50 front to rear any time 4H or 4L is selected. The beauty of the Select-Trac is that it can be used seamlessly in changing conditions, and be left engaged on dry roads. Obviously Command-Trac is part time and needs to be disengaged on dry road. The old Range Rover has true permanent 4x4, using a geared center differential to send power to the front and rear 50-50 at all times; however that center diff is open and relies on a viscous coupling to control front-to-rear slip. It can apportion up to a 50-50 split as well, and it does so mechanically without the use of clutches or sensors. The thing is, I was on snow covered roads. I don't believe for a second "Select-Trac" would have performed any better, and frankly in these conditions I would have manually selected 4H "locked" anyway.

As for weight distribution, I did think the Gladiator probably had fairly good ratios. I've had (and still have) a heavy-duty pickup and in 2WD even with studded snows they are helpless. 4x4 is needed in snow basically all the time. But your typical half-ton crew cab short bed has pretty good weight distribution as well and they go much better in 2WD than the HD's.

I'm thinking its either my 10-ply Wildpeaks, possibly in combination with the wide footprint which might make the Jeep float on top of the snow vs dig into it.

I 100% agree. It makes absolutely no sense why auto 4H would do any better than locked 4H in snow. It’s anything but that!

 

[IanNubbit]

Surprised this thread has this many replies honestly. this has nothing to do with 4HI Auto or not nothing. This is an example of someone who's comparing the rear wheel weight of an SUV to that of a Truck and is confused how its lighter. If your in areas where you get this much snow, you should have learned long before you bought a truck, to get traction in a pickup, you need weight in the bed. sand bags, anything. Auto engaging the front axle on command would have no improvement here (4HI Auto), the OP's issues were directly related to thinking a pickup would handle/drive like an SUV in the snow, nothing more, nothing less. Good thing he changed the tires at least otherwise this would have been a much more angry rant (those stock sport/overland tires SUCKED for me in the snow/ice 2 years ago)

 

[Maximus Gladius]

I’m going to agree my JTR is lite in the back but so was the Tacoma sport I had before this and, well, I just learned habits to deal with it, and we are talking drive handling in the snow.

I’ve stuck with the E rated (9 ply) - 6 on the tread and 3 on the side KO2’s. I ran them on my Tacoma for the last 2 years, with a separate rimed set of Nokian Hekkapalitas for winter driving (-20c and colder). I didn’t have lockers but used 150lbs of sidewalk blocks for weight.

Then, made the switch to the 21 JTR, a little wider stance, a little heavier, lockers, same KO2’s and 150 lbs sidewalk blocks for the back and when it snows I air down to 30psi and off I go. I use the 4H when it’s needed (which also includes rear locker in 4H when needed) or getting through the icy intersections but I never needed the Nokian winter tires so haven’t had to buy a separate set.

The weight of my tools and rock rails probably amount to another 150 lbs and then add in a full tank of gas (I keep it full ish in the winter), I’m over 300 lbs in extra weight.

With all the features of this truck, and knowing these mid sized trucks are what they are, I just know what to expect and go take it on.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Mine does well in the snow with 35x12.50 tires and no weight in the bed.

Went to visit my brother who lives in the UP. He was driving and commented “I can’t believe this thing can get out of my driveway without using 4wd”.

 

[OffAxis2021]

I 100% agree. It makes absolutely no sense why auto 4H would do any better than locked 4H in snow. It’s anything but that!

Same people claiming that their spacer lift “rides better than stock.”

In addition… I was going to reply directly to the OP, but I am not into splitting hairs on tire size and/or the salt mentions. I am far more about a lack of width, than a lack of height, without looking too silly. In my mind, I have done what I can. Narrow tires not wider than the fenders, RokBlokz, rock sliders with full top plates and fluid film on the undercarriage. Maybe I should have just said slush and such.

¯\_(❛︣ ͜ʖ ❛᷅)_/¯

Good day all.

 

[aceinfinity]

Troverman, I also have an Overland with part time 4wd. I share your experience in the snow.
I think it’s due to the relatively long wheel base and an empty bed. My previous JKU was great in the snow… my JT is amazing but I wish it had the snow performance of my JKU.

Potential improvements include
1) more weight in bed… less fishtailing and spinning out
2) wider axles or wheel spacers… increases track width
3) better tires

Mojave runs great in the snow.

 

[Swordfish44]

It's not on the build and price for 2023 (2024 B&P not on the website yet). If I were in the market again for a JT, this would be a concern as I live in snowy Wisconsin.

I just put it in 4H Auto and left it there all winter. Killer in the snow.

Going up a snowy hill in 4H part time = the exact same thing as going up a snowy hill in 4H auto. So explain to me why having an auto function as a part of your manual transfer case was a must for snow?? I could be missing something here?

 

[Gmac03]

Love my truck in the snow, Willy’s has the LSD and it’s very stable in 2wd, even with the stock mudders. I just got Duratrac RTs, so I’m expecting increased traction. I do throw about 100lbs in the rear between the 2x10 and the tailgate. It’s not my evo or my sti but is very drivable.

 

[troverman]

...Auto engaging the front axle on command would have no improvement here (4HI Auto), the OP's issues were directly related to thinking a pickup would handle/drive like an SUV in the snow, nothing more, nothing less. Good thing he changed the tires at least otherwise this would have been a much more angry rant (those stock sport/overland tires SUCKED for me in the snow/ice 2 years ago)

Wow, thank you for clearing up my "confusion." Your condescending know-it-all tone is really great! I think if you read my posts fully, you'd understand I know plenty about driving in snow, driving different types of vehicles, driving with different types of tires, and driving off-road. The whole point of my post was that compared to other vehicles, I expected the Gladiator to go better than it did - in my experience anyway - and wanted others to give their opinion as to why. I wanted to hear others' experience with their JTs in snow. And as a result, from what I've read, it corroborates my original thought that the tires I ran this summer are likely not ideal because of their width and possibly added stiffness. That's it.

Going up a snowy hill in 4H part time = the exact same thing as going up a snowy hill in 4H auto. So explain to me why having an auto function as a part of your manual transfer case was a must for snow?? I could be missing something here?

Actually, its not exactly the same thing. The Auto 4H mode is mostly reactive to slip. The transfer case may apply more power to the front axle proactively based upon your accelerator input and steering angle being fairly straight, but mostly power is ramped up to the front axle based upon slippage detected through speed differences of the ABS wheel sensors. Its really no different than full-size half tons with "4A" mode which do the same. My point is that if you are already locked into 4H going up a snowy hill, you will never lose momentum because the auto 4x4 system has to detect slippage and transfer power, no matter how quickly it can do it.

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