Owners thoughts please

[alpineovernappa]

At first I wanted a manual JT (still do! just not with the 3.6). Drove that and quickly realized that the 3.6 was adequate in my JKUR, but not so much with the JT. Hello downshifting to 3rd to pass on the interstate entrance ramps! Figured the new auto might help the 3.6, so gave that a go. Noticeably better, but still underwhelming in stock form, especially when trying to pass anything at speed with any sort of weight in the truck. Finally found a diesel on a dealer lot to drive and WOW, what a night and day difference. Fast forward 2 years and now I've put ~40k on my ecodiesel sport s JT in just about every state and condition in CONUS over the last 2 years. Its a fantastic highway vehicle and I use EDT with every tank. Totally stock, I was able to average low 30s at 55-60mph and flat. At 65-70 I was closer to 28 and at 80 I was around 22. I now have rubicon takeoff wheels/tires/suspension and I average closer to 26mpg at 55-60. I drop to 24mpg at 70, and down around 20mpg at 80mph. At 85+, I see mid to low teens.

Higher expenses on a diesel:
EDT treatment with each tank ~$1/tank
DEF $13 per ~2500 miles (or roughly $1.50 per fuel tank)
DIY oil change ~$75 with mopar filter and approved oil (7500-10k interval)
DIY fuel filter change ~$40 with OEM filter (10k-20k interval depending on whether you use bio diesels)

I'm realistic about the shortcomings of just about all modern diesel engines. The CP4 failures are a genuine concern, but they also happen to a relatively small percentage of the ecodiesels. Stellantis says theyre recalling 45,711 vehicles and they've documented 1,061 related claims, so ~2.3% failure rate based on those numbers). All that being said, if my fuel pump grenades and results in a buy back, I'd go out and buy another ecodiesel JT. If the 3.6 had been the only option, I would not have bought the JT. Many are happy with the performance of the 3.6 in the heavier JT platform, but it just didn't work for my needs.

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[Teqsand]

Let’s talk weight. The diesel is 400 pounds heavier than the 3.6 so it’s amazingly nose heavy.

The 3.0 ED weighs about 500 lbs, are you saying the 3.6 weighs 100lbs?

 

[Jefe1018]

The 3.0 ED weighs about 500 lbs, are you saying the 3.6 weighs 100lbs?

The 3.6 is about 325lbs and the ecodiesel is about 500lbs, but that’s not all that accounts for the difference. There are multiple sources out there citing that roughly 500lb weight difference in a 3.0 diesel model gladiator vs an equivalent 3.6 penestar.

 

[Teqsand]

So we bought a used gas JLUR, had it about 2 weeks and ths CEL lit up, took it back to carmax... decided to just order new, drove a 21 3.6 JLUR and it performed as well as the used one.... THEN we drove a JLURD... WOW, it's like 2 different vehicles....
On stock size tires it took of like a scalded rabbit and just kept pulling and pulling.... to be honest, the decision to but diesel was made in the first 1/4 mile.... so we ordered... loved the 29/30 mpg.

Next up, I ordered a 22 JTRD, same thing, power for days and fuel mileage was 28 mpg
Drove it for 3k miles and the CP4 blew ....
FCA fixed it but I opted to sell it back to them....
I turned around and ordered a 23 JTRD... 12.5K miles since Jan and I smile every time I drive it....
Both have 4" lifts and 37" tires....
the Wifes 21 JLURD has almost 55k on it and she has earned i believe 18 BOH badges From SoCal to Washington to MOAB...

Other than the cp4 pump, which will eventually get a fix, the DIESEL ROCKS!!!

 

[Teqsand]

All that being said, if my fuel pump grenades and results in a buy back, I'd go out and buy another ecodiesel JT. If the 3.6 had been the only option, I would not have bought the JT.

This is exactly what I did because i wanted a new one.. but where I deviate is if something were to happen to mine and I couldn't replace with a new diesel JT, I would buy a used JTR and do the HEMI conversion..... 3.6 is not I'm my future

 

[Sandevino]

The 3.0 ED weighs about 500 lbs, are you saying the 3.6 weighs 100lbs?

No. Like models with the EcoDiesel weigh 500 pounds more than those with the Pentastar.

 

[Wolf Island Diver]

I’ve detected some (being diplomatic) odd views on the diesel. So here’s my own odd views

Supposed rarity, and lack of support:

This isn’t a rare or weird or unsupported engine. VM Motori has been making diesels for almost 100 years. They made a lot of other companies engines for them. Remember the unstoppable Hilux diesel engine? That was a Motori. They’ve made diesels for Mercedes, BMW, Ford, GM, Toyota and Nissan and now FCA. Americans tend to think diesels begin and end with heavy duty Fords and Cummins. Diesels are everywhere in Europe, Africa and Asia and Motori manufactures a significant share of them.


Reliability Vs Pentastar:

I’ve only ever owned 1 vehicle that had a major powertrain problem. Everything else has been flawless. My 2004 AEV SWB TJ was flawless. Other than a dead battery, my current JTRD is flawless (knocks on wood). My 2013 10th Anniversary Rubicon JKU, at the time my dream Jeep, had a bad Pentastar engine with the sand casting issue. There’s no easy fix for that either because it just slowly manifests itself with repeatedly failing peripheral components like oil pumps, water pumps, heater cores, etc. I had to sell it to escape the nightmare. In the mid oughts, if you went on any Jeep forum, Pentastar complaints dominated. They had the aforementioned sand casting problem, they had head problems, and the list goes on and on.

The Ecodiesel has also had problems. Like the Pentastar, most if not all of those problems have been resolved. They’re both reliable. As for emissions control system issues regarding the DPF, EGR and SCR, welcome to modern diesels. All are fairly simple systems, all can be deleted in states without emissions checks (if you do it yourself), and the total cost to replace any of them is less than a couple grand, so it’s not like you’ve got a $20k failure bomb under your vehicle waiting to go off right as the powertrain warranty ends. I’ve had catalytic converters go at around 100k on multiple gas vehicles, at around $800-$1000 a pop. The cat in TJ went at 120k miles. I’ve had issues with EGR systems and DI systems on several gas vehicles. Emissions control problems are the number one problem on gas engines. The Ecodiesel isn’t unique in this respect. There’s no data that leads me to conclude that it’s less reliable or significantly more expensive to own over its lifetime beyond consumables like filters, DEF and fuel. Def fluid? Every couple of thousand miles, I’ve got to buy a $15-$25 box of cow piss. My jimmies remain unrustled.



Bosch CP4.2: The Pink German Elephant:

There’s a 3-5% chance this pump will fail. This pump, by the way is used in a lot of brand vehicles and has failed in those vehicles too. Bosch has a reputation for not fixing their problems and you will find their stuff in probably every vehicle on the market. The Bosch failure train has just happened to stop at Ecodiesel City this year.

The likely solution to this whole fiasco is a ECU flash that prevents the low power mode that can result in internal cavitation. The root cause is a poor design uncaptured piston. You can buy pinned pumps from the aftermarket. You can run a GDE tune that turns off this mode, or you wait for the FCA fix to come. My biggest concern with this is that FCA and Bosch will fight and play the blame game and run the money clock out on this resulting in a buyback, not that my fuel system will fail. My dealership’s jimmies remain unrustled on this one. Their response to me: “if your fuel system goes, we’ll replace it under warranty.”


Diesel Performance vs Everything Else:

Someone mentioned it’s lower horsepower. ????. Back in 13’ my first experience driving a Pentastar was my new JKUR. As a long time 4.0 owner my first impression was “this sucks! and what’s with this loud ass fan?” It sounds like an air boat with that fan. What’s with the @$&:ing fan? The Pentastar has plenty of torque and horsepower, it’s just way the hell up in the rev range. I get OCD whenever my tachometer goes over 2k in the Ecodiesel. Everything comes on at 800-1500RPM. It’s a street legal Kabota tractor (that’s a compliment)

I’ve laid down tire marks on the road with Ecodiesel. With a Banks pedal monster that unneuters the throttle response, you can do burnouts down the street if that’s your thing. It’s the quickest Gladiator. It’s almost as quick as the 392, but that Jeep gets single digit mileage. And if a 392 Gladiator comes out, as cool as that will be, I’d still choose the diesel because I just don’t want to drive around getting 8 MPG for personal as well as collective reasons.

The Ecodiesel doesn’t care about load, hills, wind, speed, or what gear you’re in. With 3 people (and a dog), 1800 lbs of gear, on 37” M/Ts on beadlocks, with rack system with an attached awning, and with 150lbs of beach cart and cooler, I get 27MPG at 70MPH. I get over 30MPG if I bring it down to 55-65MPH. While it does tow less in theory, personally I think if you want to tow 6000lbs you need to look at a full size truck. I have zero desire to tow anything more than a Patriot X3 or Conqueror or Opus OP4 size trailer. So far I’ve had zero temp problems. I was barreling down the highway the other day fully loaded at 75MPH in 95 degree heat and typical Hampton Roads humidity and my temps didn’t budge off of 217.

I challenge anyone with a Pentastar to get 30MPG driving a truck kitted out like this. When AEV 2.5” springs are too light and you have to upgrade to the 3” you’re carrying a lot of stuff.

My few complaints:

I do have some gripes about the diesel and they sort of drive my OCD crazy. Off road the truck has no engine braking. I’ve never driven a 4x4 that didn’t have engine braking. 4 low and in first gear, the truck will speed up. You have to use crawl control or the brakes which both annoy me. The crawl control is loud and weird. GDE apparently can tune engine braking back in so I’m eventually going to go that route. The DPF clogs quickly off road at low speeds. Inevitably, the truck will do a regen while I’m four wheeling. You’re supposed to do active regens at speed, not at 5mph. It’s not caused any issues that I can detect but it’s still annoying. Fitting things to the truck is more difficult. There’s a lot less room under the hood. I had to relocate the washer fluid bottle to fit fender liners. You have to cut off and then reverse a bolt to install control arm drop brackets.

Conclusion:

My biggest concern now is that there’s a buyback because this is the best vehicle and best Jeep I’ve owned by a wide margin. Its the quickest, most responsive, most practical, most comfortable, quietest, has the most range, best on the highway, best in the sand, good enough in the rocks if you’re careful (compared to an JL), sounds the best and most reliable (so far). I would dread having to go from this to a Pentastar. I think it would drive me crazy not having the feel and performance of the diesel. I’m legit hoping to keep this until some kind of solid state battery EV comes out, maybe 10 years from now. Even with the recall, and potential for a buyback I’d buy this again, no hesitation.

Jeep is abandoning the Ecodiesel for simple reasons. The hybrid is the now best selling model and it gets their CAFE performance up without all the corporate issues diesels bring with them. NOx requirements have made diesels far less attractive for automakers and FCA was stung by there own dieselgate. Perhaps most importantly, diesels are still not very popular outside of the heavy duty truck market. It doesn’t make financial sense for them to keep making these, but that’s not an indictment of the platform.

 

[FloridaMan655321]

I would have gotten a diesel, but no manual option. I had a diesel + manual before and loved it, such a great combo with all that torque.
Now with the fuel pump issue, I'd love to get that resolved before even considering a diesel option.
Of course with this said, if they did fix the fuel pump issue and offered a manual, I'd probably trade mine in for one

 

[djthumper]

I bought the Gladiator because of the ED. I liked them when they came out because I have always wanted a Jeep but couldn't just get into a Wrangler due to the size and towing. My mileage has dropped to about 20.5 MPG, up on 35s with a moderately loaded rack on the back, steel bumpers, and a winch. I just recently dropped to that with changing rims with an offset to get away from some rubbing.

I run EDT on every fuel-up to help ensure things are better lubed. I have 35,400 miles on it and drive at least 70 miles per day for my commute. It does not care about the load and keeps on going. Why they didn't have a 4.10 option on there I don't know.

 

[ratherbskiing]

I went from a JLUWD to the 3.6JTR and I'm quite underwhelmed. Sure, the 3.6 is adequate....but I miss the diesel. To have such little power from the 3.6 and still only get 16 MPG is a sin.

That said, I did experience severe cooling issues with the 3.0 when towing.

I thought you can't order the JTD anymore...is that accurate?

 

[drdfblackm]

It is my understanding at this point:

1) You cannot order a JTD and there will not be 2024 JTD
2)Existing new JTDs cannot be sold until there is a fix
3)Jeep dealers cannot sell a certified used JTD (getting conflicting info on this one)
4)You can buy JTD from non jeep dealers and will still have remaining of factory warranty still remaining to count on especially since it is a NTSB recall at this point which forces the vehicle to be covered. (still trying to piece/sort this in my head if I am comfortable since I believe everyone here really loves their JTD)

I would appreciate if someone that knows the factual answers to the above please chime in.

 

[Jteakus]

I love my EcoD JL and JT, Really wouldn't want either if they had gas engines.
Mileage and torque.
Will it run hot towing? Owners say it will. I didn't even get a hitch on mine. The Cummins is for towing. What it will do is climb hills, pass slower vehicles easily and knock down 22 mpg average including interstates and trails for 3,000 miles while weighing 7,400 lbs loaded out on 37's with stock 3.73's. Recent trip to prove it.

 

[TwelveGaugeSage]

I would have gotten a diesel, but no manual option. I had a diesel + manual before and loved it, such a great combo with all that torque.
Now with the fuel pump issue, I'd love to get that resolved before even considering a diesel option.
Of course with this said, if they did fix the fuel pump issue and offered a manual, I'd probably trade mine in for one

Same here. No manual made the decision easy for me. If the diesel was available with a manual I would probably have one. It's hard to explain to people who prefer or even can "live with" automatics. I just don't like driving automatics, no matter how "good" they are.

 

[BearFootSam]

Preface: I have owned diesel passenger vehicles and driven an immense variety of heavy-duty and military diesels. The diesel VW with a manual transmission I owned was by far the best all-around passenger car I've owned with immense credit to that (pre-urea) engine.


If I had my druthers my gladiator would have been a diesel, just not with the engine Chryslantis has chosen. I think for most uses the diesel is a superior powerplant, but there are specific drawbacks to current iterations that steered me toward the classic 3.6 (which by all accounts is a very decent powertrain btw).
1. The maintenance costs are substantially higher and quite a bit less DIY friendly. I expect dissent on the latter point, but the emissions system complexity and integration are not friendly nor cheap to repair.
2. Up front and ongoing costs are higher. Fuel economy helps mitigate those costs but diesel is still frequently =$1 over regular unleaded in my region.
3. Range is hampered by a smaller tank.
4. Weight penalty in an already heavy for class truck - which takes a big bite out of payload and negatively effects balance.
5. Urea - if you run out your luck does too. I may overstate that issue but it is yet another thing that must be managed and looked after.
6. Parts commonality - from lifts to body protection many gas accessories are not cross compatible.
7. Packaging and design - The jeep team did commendable work getting the diesel to integrate with the platform. Despite their best efforts there are still concerns with overheating, de-rating and other non-sense that negate the value of the torque advantage right when you would get the most benefit, say pulling a trailer over a mountain pass. Take away - the power only counts when you have access to all of it.
8. Temperament of current gen diesels - DPFs abhor short trips when the engine is making the most soot during warm up but not getting up to speed long enough to regen as needed. If an exhaust component or fuel pump fail you are SOL until you can get ahold of a replacement which may be more difficult.
9. Having to add fuel treatment every tank and make sure family members do the same.

All that said, I really love the concept of the diesel gladiator. If I could have had one with a big four-cylinder diesel an none of the urea baggage it would have been an easy choice. As is I think there are a great deal of compromises, not insurmountable but too many for my situation.

 

[Sandevino]

Having sold my Overland diesel last week and picked up a JTR I can honestly say I have zero buyers remorse. Initially, the difference was night and day but the more I drove the JTR the more I got used to what it did vs didn't and have come to appreciate the simplicity.

I checked with the dealer today and they can't sell it or certify it as the HPFP is under recall.

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