Reaching out to those doing their own shock tuning?

[rharr]

I won't doubt your comments relative to the base terraflex stuff (springs, shocks, control arms with johnny joints, etc.).

But Falcons might be a different story. Here's a vid on a tear-down comparison of Fox 2.0 remote reservoir adjustable, and Falcon 3.3 adjustables at pretty much the same price point. Looks like they compare at or better than Fox 2.0. Since you've been inside your 2.5's you might offer how that would compare.



... and yes... the guy is an overloader...so I will add grains of salt.

Mehh, the differences between the 2 are marginal at best. The floating piston on the falcon is a little nicer with the low friction band to keep the piston rocking, but the plastic fox piston probably do the same when the plastic part contacts the cylinder, but the plastic won't score the harder aluminum so a wash. The bigger body and shaft of the falcon is also a little better, but not so important if you aren't beating on stuff. The bigger shaft causes the body to get bigger to replace the amount of oil displaced by the bigger shaft.

Piston port design is nothing really, both are likely matched to valve shim stack.

If either want to stand out, they should add rebound adjustment and High speed/low speed adjustment and hard anodize/kashima coat the inside of the shock body or at least advertise it, roost guards and replace the chrome shafts with nitrobrite shafts.

Everything there is designed for a certain price point, plain and simple.

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[CrazyCooter]

I won't doubt your comments relative to the base terraflex stuff (springs, shocks, control arms with johnny joints, etc.).

But Falcons might be a different story. Here's a vid on a tear-down comparison of Fox 2.0 remote reservoir adjustable, and Falcon 3.3 adjustables at pretty much the same price point. Looks like they compare at or better than Fox 2.0. Since you've been inside your 2.5's you might offer how that would compare.



... and yes... the guy is an overloader...so I will add grains of salt.

Yes, the Falcons might be awesome! I just have a hard time trying them at $3k with my prior experience with Tera and what I've see the YouTubers' vehicles react like.

Edit:
Just watched the video and there are some nice features there. Not sure if the sintered vs billet parts really make much difference with they aren't wearing parts, but OK. For all we know, Fox could be sourcing offshore parts and Tera is a USA made, but I don't know either way........I'll generally pay extra to keep it in our country though.

The IFP wear band is pretty cool, but not sure if wearing out the resi bore is a common issue or not. Never heard of that. Never the less, it is a cool upgrade!

The 3/4" vs 5/8" shaft is not that big of a deal I don't think, but no doubt it would help with the side loads......not really sure in a proper suspension design if that's a big deal either. One down side I could see with that is the pressure ramping up as the larger shaft travels into the shock. The Falcon has a smaller resi, so the pressure should spike at a higher rate than a Fox with the larger resi/smaller shaft combo. This will create effectively increase the spring rate and could make the last few inches of travel firmer. Could be good or bad depending on your suspension's state.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Installed the Clayton 1508450 front 3.5" gas gladiator springs on Friday since I already had them on the way. I did however need to soften my compression and firm up the rebound damping as expected since she was a bit firm with all of the clickers backed out. For reference.........By the coil calculators I found online, the Evo springs I removed are 120lb'ish and the Clayton springs came out 177lb'ish (Printed spec 188lb)

I had spoken to Dobinson a few weeks back and the guy told me they had a spring coming in 2 weeks........Dude emailed me last week saying they had a spring for me.........I called back and they actually "DID NOT" really have the diesel specific springs they told me about a few weeks ago. When I started pressing them for spring rates/extended coil measurements, the guy on the phone started backpedaling and finally told me I would be happy with the heavy rate gas 3" springs.......NOPE! If you are going to deceive me when I ask specific info, that will be a hard NO in doing business with you. Too many times have I been screwed by the "sales" guy on the phone selling me based on what the lemmings like.........

Clayton 2.5" rears will be here tomorrow and then it's time for a 2,300 mile road/desert overlanding trip for testing once again! Tech at Clayton told me the 2nd/3rd rates were much like OEM Rubi springs, so hoping I don't need to go back into the rear shocks before we leave......

I was also thinking initally that the heavier springs for the adjustable sway bar links were going to be required, but after installing the heavier front springs......I think they work nicely. Glad I held out on that test before swapping out.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Little desert playtime and testing!

Got to meet Mr. and Mrs. Glamisfan in Anza Borrego last weekend for a little running in the sand washes and a hike.

Nothing crazy to demonstrate success, but a cool video none the less!

 

[DocMcStuffins]

Little desert playtime and testing!

Got to meet Mr. and Mrs. Glamisfan in Anza Borrego last weekend for a little running in the sand washes and a hike.

Nothing crazy to demonstrate success, but a cool video none the less!

VERY COOL!!! I need to get your specs on tune!!!

 

[CrazyCooter]

VERY COOL!!! I need to get your specs on tune!!!

I got some more tricks to try when I get home, but you are welcome to what I have!

Have at least 1200 miles mostly in the desert on this trip alone.

 

[CrazyCooter]

VERY COOL!!! I need to get your specs on tune!!!

I got some more tricks to try when I get home, but you are welcome to what I have

Have at least 1200 miles mostly desert on this trip alone.

 

[DocMcStuffins]

I got some more tricks to try when I get home, but you are welcome to what I have

Have at least 1200 miles mostly desert on this trip alone.

AWESOME!!! I've read that it's better to have a shock tuned to match the vehicle weight and spring rate. Our rigs should be pretty similar in weight, but I wonder how different the RK diesel spring rates will be from your Clayton's.

 

[CrazyCooter]

AWESOME!!! I've read that it's better to have a shock tuned to match the vehicle weight and spring rate. Our rigs should be pretty similar in weight, but I wonder how different the RK diesel spring rates will be from your Clayton's.

Yes, no doubt the spring rate makes a difference. I went from 120ish to 188 on the fronts and had to soften compression/ add rebound.

I dont see how a shock manufacturer can sell anything without knowing what spring will be installed. Nobody can make any educated decision with the suspension manufacturers withholding info from us.

 

[CrazyCooter]

AWESOME!!! I've read that it's better to have a shock tuned to match the vehicle weight and spring rate. Our rigs should be pretty similar in weight, but I wonder how different the RK diesel spring rates will be from your Clayton's.

Can you measure coil diameter, wire diameter, and # of coils for you RK springs? Should be able to get close if it's a single rate?

 

[DocMcStuffins]

Can you measure coil diameter, wire diameter, and # of coils for you RK springs? Should be able to get close if it's a single rate?

I appreciate it! Hopefully I will have springs soon, but I know that they are triple rate. I can reach out and see if I can get rates from RK directly, but I don’t know if that will help.

Can you measure coil diameter, wire diameter, and # of coils for you RK springs? Should be able to get close if it's a single rate?

I just got off the phone with RK-

Fronts are triple rate, 175lb ride rate
Rears are quad rate, 185lb ride rate.

Do you know what the Clayton rates are?

 

[PackMule]

I appreciate it! Hopefully I will have springs soon, but I know that they are triple rate. I can reach out and see if I can get rates from RK directly, but I don’t know if that will help.


I just got off the phone with RK-

Fronts are triple rate, 175lb ride rate
Rears are quad rate, 185lb ride rate.

Do you know what the Clayton rates are?

Clayton Gas JT's are #188 for front, I think the rears are the same

Their diesel JT fronts available very soon are somewhere around #225.
And they are working on an HD rear JT spring.

 

[PackMule]

Mehh, the differences between the 2 are marginal at best. The floating piston on the falcon is a little nicer with the low friction band to keep the piston rocking, but the plastic fox piston probably do the same when the plastic part contacts the cylinder, but the plastic won't score the harder aluminum so a wash. The bigger body and shaft of the falcon is also a little better, but not so important if you aren't beating on stuff. The bigger shaft causes the body to get bigger to replace the amount of oil displaced by the bigger shaft.

Piston port design is nothing really, both are likely matched to valve shim stack.

If either want to stand out, they should add rebound adjustment and High speed/low speed adjustment and hard anodize/kashima coat the inside of the shock body or at least advertise it, roost guards and replace the chrome shafts with nitrobrite shafts.

Everything there is designed for a certain price point, plain and simple.

Thanks for your insights re: they are a wash re: their build comparison.

I agree also that each built to a price point, however it seems that Fox & Falcon have deviated when it comes to where they add adjustability Falcon in the 3.x series... which this video compares with the Fox 2.0 remote reservoir, Where Fox doesn't have adjustability until you get to the 2.5's, which put you at a different price point. Falcon 3.3's at $1900 vs Fox 2.5s $2800.

But... you can't buy Falcons anyway, cause they are on infinite backorder.

I'm going to Moab in a month, So I just ordered Fox.

 

[PackMule]

Installed the Clayton 1508450 front 3.5" gas gladiator springs on Friday since I already had them on the way. ...... For reference.........By the coil calculators I found online, the Evo springs I removed are 120lb'ish and the Clayton springs came out 177lb'ish (Printed spec 188lb).....

Your info is really helpful as I'm following closely in your footsteps... have a Clayton Gas JT 2.5" overland lift and will have Fox 2.5's for 2-3" lift waiting for me for install in a couple weeks... just in time for a late April Moab trip. Will not have time to re-tune the shocks before, but watching closely on what you are doing. Also will be adding Icon (King) jounce bumps in the front, and have Sumos in the rear.

I've been keeping in touch with Adam over at Clayton about timing of availability of their Diesel JT fronts...

 

[CrazyCooter]

I appreciate it! Hopefully I will have springs soon, but I know that they are triple rate. I can reach out and see if I can get rates from RK directly, but I don’t know if that will help.


I just got off the phone with RK-

Fronts are triple rate, 175lb ride rate
Rears are quad rate, 185lb ride rate.

Do you know what the Clayton rates are?

For Clayton rear 2.5's

• Spring Rate 1 = 159 lbs/in
• Spring Rate 2 = 280 lbs/in
• Spring Rate 3 = 360 lbs/in

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