Reaching out to those doing their own shock tuning?

[CrazyCooter]

We can see in the clips that the front needs some more mid speed and rebound damping and the rear needs a little rebound work too. The shocks were set to manual mode with the fronts at about 60% and rears all the way down as there was only about 50LB in the bed and 3/4 tank of fuel. The front is a tad harsh on the 2-4" bumps right now too.

If you slow the playback speed down to .25 and watch on your 60" TV, you can really see whats going on. Note you can see light under the rear tires as it rolls off? Maybe a little up front too?

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[CrazyCooter]

Went out this weekend for a 3 part test after making a few more changes to the valving on the @SuspensionDirect ECliks.......

1) I wanted to test towing mannerisms, range of adjustment with a load, and higher shaft speed damping which seems to get amplified with a heavy hitch weighted trailer.

2) I was also concerned with cold weather performance/firmness especially now that I've closed off the bleeds a bit to minimize head bobble. It was 26° on our way to the camp spot and 22° the following morning.

3)Overall unloaded off road performance and comfort while traveling at higher speeds in the high desert and forests.

This thing is a towing beast with the ECliks! No body roll, brake dive, or porpoise when you just dial in the desired settings on the tcase shifter...... After backing under the RV, I adjusted the "Load" menu to 75% which makes the rear shock valving more aggressive. On the road I ended up bumping up the rear valving a touch more to my liking which eliminated the rocking, roll in the corners, wind movements, and any remaining porpoising.

The @Clayton Off Road rear HD springs handled the load even better than their standard springs I ran previously. 10psi in the rear bags leveled the truck right out. I was a little apprehensive about towing on the 38s vs the 37s I ran prior, but a slight adjustment in the steering gear combined with the new track bar in the Clayton Overland Plus system made the steering tight and responsive again.

I took another couple of videos on the test roller this afternoon, but they look almost identical to the untrained eye.......I'll post new videos when I get some more shims to play with and there is an actual obvious change to see.

#actionaxle
#suspensiondirectinc
#sdiracing
#claytonoffroad
#overlandvehicledynamics

 

[CrazyCooter]

I got another shipment of shims this week and had a little time to work on the project today.

Overall pretty happy with the shocks at this point, just need to fix little things here and there that got changed from adding more shims to create a more progressive stack and allowing me to tune in "sections" with the addition of couple more flutters.

This however creates another problem with running out of room for the stack........Also the shims were no longer centered on the larger part of the shaft....Many were centering or should I say "NOT centered" on the threaded section of the rod. I have a solution for that! I was using locktite up to this point with the nut only about 2/3 on the shaft until I got some thicker shims, but I need even more space now.

The shafts were super strait, so that was encouraging!

A little more margin for safety and accuracy?

 

[CrazyCooter]

With all of that out of the way, I installed my latest revision and went out to the test spot.

Looking better, but still need to make another little flutter change out back.



This one looks pretty good, but could benefit from that rear flutter change as well. Noted in softening up the upper high speed area up front she got a little softer in the upper mid speed, so I used about 3/4 of the travel in my front hydraulic bumps this time. Also noted rolling over the taller water bars that the front was tapping the bumps a little more than before.



Getting real close.......

I need to tow with the truck again and see what the high speed feels like with a heavy tongue weighted trailer.......1.5-2yds of roadbase should do the trick?

Play with it a bit more this weekend!

 

[CrazyCooter]

More progress today collecting notes and impressions while towing! I opted to use the RV since it was raining and I didn't want roadbase turning into concrete in the dump trailer........

I had forgotten my selfie stick at the test spot yesterday, so I figured a good time to test the rough twisty road out to the local OHV area with the RV in tow to retrieve it. Would you believe me if I told you the truck drives this road better with my tuning and RV in tow than it did unloaded with the shocks as delivered? Crazy, but you can't make this stuff it up!

Send it?

Obviously not, but it could probably hang since I've have done a little work to the chassis of this RV as I do with all of my vehicles......Trailers are not exempt just because I don't ride in them. I blueprint every new vehicle I buy.......This one got torn apart immediately for a brake inspection, Machine the out of round drums, bearing pack w/ Amsoil grease, machine the axle nuts for perfect bearing preload adjustment, balance the brake drums/tires, and add shocks. I chose the KYB GasAdjust for a C10 front suspension application thinking the weight and motion ratios at play would be a pretty good match and they are a great quick reacting monotube shock I have 30+ years history with. The refrigerator is located at the rear wall, the worst place for stuff to get tossed around........Yet everything is still in place after we drive the backroads at higher speeds? Must be on to something?

You would be amazed at what kind of forces are at play on your chassis when you hook up a heavy trailer....... I figured this out the first time I hooked up a lighter 17' RV for our southwestern tour last year with the Fox's installed.......They were way too soft to control body roll and keeping the truck off of the bumpstops on the rougher highway, yet so stiff during high speed moments that the rear hits were almost back breaking. Also keep in mind what the weight distribution hitch does to the valving requirements.........I'm trying to find that perfect balance between enough rebound damping to control the recoil the weight distribution adds, yet compliant enough with the addition of a flutter to not "pack" the suspension over that test bump simulating a whoop?

This is why I MUST include this testing into my tuning because I feel others have fallen short based on the products I have installed and tested over the years. Is your "custom tuner" doing this work for you? I can assure you they ARE NOT if they aren't bragging about it in their sales pitch....... What are really you getting for the $1800-6000 these premium shock packages cost?

What about a dyno sheet? How many in the off road world actually own a shock dyno and supply a data sheet with the order when the work has been completed? I know it's not mandatory to use a dyno to produce a good product, BUT would you be more inclined to buy from someone who can validate their claims before/after? It seems the circle track and drag race side of things, everyone worth buying from is dynoing their shocks. Why not the off road world? I'm currently shopping for a dyno. As with everything I do........I can't stop a just "good enough" and hoping this will buy a new guy some dirt cred at a faster rate?

Anyway, same as yesterday.......I machined the front shock shafts as I had to add more shims and ran out of room. Made a few changes for the better in towing comfort and hopefully less packing over the test spot while unloaded. Now back to testing unloaded on a Sunday drive. Once the road dries out a bit at the test spot, I'll head out there for another video to share!

Thanks for following along!

 

[rharr]

More progress today collecting notes and impressions while towing! I opted to use the RV since it was raining and I didn't want roadbase turning into concrete in the dump trailer........

I had forgotten my selfie stick at the test spot yesterday, so I figured a good time to test the rough twisty road out to the local OHV area with the RV in tow to retrieve it. Would you believe me if I told you the truck drives this road better with my tuning and RV in tow than it did unloaded with the shocks as delivered? Crazy, but you can't make this stuff it up!

Send it?

Obviously not, but it could probably hang since I've have done a little work to the chassis of this RV as I do with all of my vehicles......Trailers are not exempt just because I don't ride in them. I blueprint every new vehicle I buy.......This one got torn apart immediately for a brake inspection, Machine the out of round drums, bearing pack w/ Amsoil grease, machine the axle nuts for perfect bearing preload adjustment, balance the brake drums/tires, and add shocks. I chose the KYB GasAdjust for a C10 front suspension application thinking the weight and motion ratios at play would be a pretty good match and they rae a great quick reacting monotube shock I have 30+ years history with. The refrigerator is located at the rear wall, the worst place for stuff to get tossed around........Yet everything is still in place after we drive the backroads at higher speeds? Must be on to something?

You would be amazed at what kind of forces are at play on your chassis when you hook up a heavy trailer....... I figured this out the first time I hooked up a lighter 17' RV for our southwestern tour last year with the Fox's installed.......They were way too soft to control body roll and keeping the truck off of the bumpstops on the rougher highway, yet so stiff during high speed moments that the rear hits were almost back breaking. Also keep in mind what the weight distribution hitch does to the valving requirements.........I'm trying to find that perfect balance between enough rebound damping to control the recoil the weight distribution adds, yet compliant enough with the addition of a flutter to not "pack" the suspension over that test bump simulating a whoop?

This is why I MUST include this testing into my tuning because I feel others have fallen short based on the products I have installed and tested over the years. Is your "custom tuner" doing this work for you? I can assure you they ARE NOT if they aren't bragging about it in their sales pitch....... What are really you getting for the $1800-6000 these premium shock packages cost?

What about a dyno sheet? How many in the off road world actually own a shock dyno and supply a data sheet with the order when the work has been completed? I know it's not mandatory to use a dyno to produce a good product, BUT would you be more inclined to buy from someone who can validate their claims before/after? It seems the circle track and drag race side of things, everyone worth buying from is dynoing their shocks. Why not the off road world? I'm currently shopping for a dyno. As with everything I do........I can't stop a just "good enough" and hoping this will buy a new guy some dirt cred at a faster rate?

Anyway, same as yesterday.......I machined the front shock shafts as I had to add more shims and ran out of room. Made a few changes for the better in towing comfort and hopefully less packing over the test spot while unloaded. Now back to testing unloaded on a Sunday drive. Once the road dries out a bit at the test spot, I'll head out there for another video to share!

Thanks for following along!

See if you can find a dyno that will work with motorcycle suspension too

Ever think about doing one of those race tech suspension work shops to build your knowledge base?

 

[CrazyCooter]

See if you can find a dyno that will work with motorcycle suspension too

Ever think about doing one of those race tech suspension work shops to build your knowledge base?

Yes, looking at 50"+ masts with motorcycle stuff in mind.......I have yet to tear into my bikes since this has taken all my time. Right now trying to find out what I need as far as force, speed, and HP. Got a quote for $23k on one Im not convinced will cover everything I want to do. I know I'm not spending $100k.......Unless this really takes off, but we are heading into a serious economy correction?

I've read about the Racetech classes with interest. If this gets more serious and takes over, I'll be willing to invest more into it. Already thinking about forming a corporation and creating a separate company for the suspension side in case I decide to sell off the current drivetrain business and do the shock thing in early retirement as I travel? 40' DP motorhome and a stacker trailer to haul toys and the shop?

I'm doing a complete suspension build job with my tuning in a set ECliks mid month and I'm assuming his review might stir up some more interest. How many on here alone are thinking hmmm.....looks great! "Somebody else try it first"! I'm doing this job below my normal profit margin just to prove myself, the package, and reward this guy for taking chance on me at the same time.

We're still at this stage where you guys need to figure out if what I'm doing sucks OR if its the cat's ass! From what I see on my end, the hauling/overland segment is WAY under represented as far as shock tuning goes. Everyone is just buying whats available and its the best they have ever had because its all they have ever had and it was $2k+!

All I know is that I can outrun most of the people I travel with and they all bitch that I drive too fast for them. I step out of the truck after 12 hours off road and I'm not looking for a hot tub.They look like Mike Tyson has been working on them all day.......

 

[dcmdon]

This is great stuff. Thanks for the posts. Keep them coming.

 

[CrazyCooter]

This is great stuff. Thanks for the posts. Keep them coming.

Thanks for your feedback Don!

Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to myself and wonder if anyone cares what I'm trying to accomplish here.This journey has been so rewarding but maddening at the same time. The cool thing is that I've taken on and learned yet another discipline in the automotive trade after 30 years in the business. Im running out of time!

 

[rharr]

See if you can find a dyno that will work with motorcycle suspension too

Yes, looking at 50"+ masts with motorcycle stuff in mind.......I have yet to tear into my bikes since this has taken all my time. Right now trying to find out what I need as far as force, speed, and HP. Got a quote for $23k on one Im not convinced will cover everything I want to do. I know I'm not spending $100k.......Unless this really takes off, but we are heading into a serious economy correction?

I've read about the Racetech classes with interest. If this gets more serious and takes over, I'll be willing to invest more into it. Already thinking about forming a corporation and creating a separate company for the suspension side in case I decide to sell off the current drivetrain business and do the shock thing in early retirement as I travel? 40' DP motorhome and a stacker trailer to haul toys and the shop?

I'm doing a complete suspension build job with my tuning in a set ECliks mid month and I'm assuming his review might stir up some more interest. How many on here alone are thinking hmmm.....looks great! "Somebody else try it first"! I'm doing this job below my normal profit margin just to prove myself, the package, and reward this guy for taking chance on me at the same time.

We're still at this stage where you guys need to figure out if what I'm doing sucks OR if its the cat's ass! From what I see on my end, the hauling/overland segment is WAY under represented as far as shock tuning goes. Everyone is just buying whats available and its the best they have ever had because its all they have ever had and it was $2k+!

All I know is that I can outrun most of the people I travel with and they all bitch that I drive too fast for them. I step out of the truck after 12 hours off road and I'm not looking for a hot tub.They look like Mike Tyson has been working on them all day.......

Good plan with the 2 businesses.

You may have something here with the tuning side business, but before you invest big dollars you need to make sure what you like for tuning aligns with the general public. (the folks that think turning up high speed adjustment is for high speeds...) and if your taste in tune doesn't work for the general public what is a comprimise stack.

Hope you are good with excel because keeping a log book of what things do with what weights and rates is the key to being able to do quick tuning without having to spend half a day monkeying with things to get you into the ball park of a tune.

I think there would be market for the jeep guys if you could do something like what the dirt bike tuners do, and set up a form that asks a list of questions that the tuner can then use to come up with a initial stack.

Take a look at these folks. Mostly motorcycle stuff but they are one of the manufactures for manufacturers, kind of like SDI.

https://phmengineering.com/catalog/

The possible down turn is a real thing. I got a automech buddy holding off on buying a alignment rack cause he doesn't want to be in a bad place a year from now.
I suggest you keep refining your process, work on some buddies stuff, get their feed back, and take some classes which are a more low dollar deal then a dyno.

If you find yourself down in south AZ with your dirtbike, hit me up.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Good plan with the 2 businesses.

You may have something here with the tuning side business, but before you invest big dollars you need to make sure what you like for tuning aligns with the general public. (the folks that think turning up high speed adjustment is for high speeds...) and if your taste in tune doesn't work for the general public what is a comprimise stack.

Hope you are good with excel because keeping a log book of what things do with what weights and rates is the key to being able to do quick tuning without having to spend half a day monkeying with things to get you into the ball park of a tune.

I think there would be market for the jeep guys if you could do something like what the dirt bike tuners do, and set up a form that asks a list of questions that the tuner can then use to come up with a initial stack.

Take a look at these folks. Mostly motorcycle stuff but they are one of the manufactures for manufacturers, kind of like SDI.

https://phmengineering.com/catalog/

The possible down turn is a real thing. I got a automech buddy holding off on buying a alignment rack cause he doesn't want to be in a bad place a year from now.
I suggest you keep refining your process, work on some buddies stuff, get their feed back, and take some classes which are a more low dollar deal then a dyno.

If you find yourself down in south AZ with your dirtbike, hit me up.

Yes agreed on making sure people like my stuff before the big investment. The key here I think is getting known on the internet, because not too many people in my area with decent suspension systems and tunable shocks.

It will be difficult to tune for just anybody unless I limit my work to a specific spring manufacture or buy springs from other manufacturers to test with? Teraflex is also big on here it seems, so if I saw a demand, I would buy a set and test with those. Not too many companies posting their spring rates, so kind of hard to do anything without owning .

With motorcycles you know what rate you are dealing with, approximate bike/rider weights, and could adjust for changes? Jeeps is much different with the wide range of unknowns people stack on?

At least I have a strong running business right now and when it slows a bit, I'll be looking for things to fill the time.....or maybe just go ride bikes more?

I know that I have zero patience for people who buy a bunch of junk on the internet that doesn't work well together for the intended use and Im supposed to make it work? I'm past that stage in my career...... Is this the future of the service? If so, not for me.

"Sorry sir, I only work on diesel JTs with Clayton springs" Reminds me of the scene in Joe Dirt at the failing roadside fireworks stand......"I only sell snakes and sparklers"

Thank for that link! Saved it.

I'd love to ride in AZ! Always looking to get away from the cold in the winter...... What kind of riding do you do? I currently own a 1290 Super Adventure R thats currently up for sale due to lost interest, Husky 701 Enduro haven't used ut much since I bought the JT, and looking to buy a smaller bike again....maybe a Husky 350/501S? Sold my 525EXC to a buddy and wish I still had it!

 

[rharr]

@CrazyCooter
Fyi, Spring rate tester
https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/367331-Spring-Rate-Tester?highlight=spring+rate

all you need is distance compressed and force exerted to figure out rate.

I ride a bunch of stuff, single track, dual sport, and adv.

I have been focusing on single track as it's harder and slower so i get to work on skills and keep the speed related injuries down.

got a beta 390 that is a great technical & ds bike when needed and a ktm 990r adv that is my do it all bike.

If you are thinking about a new bike, i have been a big fan of going smaller, just easier to ride and more forgiving. I would suggest something in the 350 range. The new ktm 450's and 500 are good and have a small bike feel unlike the older jap 450's but they can still get to be a handful in hard situations.

 

[CrazyCooter]

@CrazyCooter
Fyi, Spring rate tester
https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/367331-Spring-Rate-Tester?highlight=spring+rate

all you need is distance compressed and force exerted to figure out rate.

I ride a bunch of stuff, single track, dual sport, and adv.

I have been focusing on single track as it's harder and slower so i get to work on skills and keep the speed related injuries down.

got a beta 390 that is a great technical & ds bike when needed and a ktm 990r adv that is my do it all bike.

If you are thinking about a new bike, i have been a big fan of going smaller, just easier to ride and more forgiving. I would suggest something in the 350 range. The new ktm 450's and 500 are good and have a small bike feel unlike the older jap 450's but they can still get to be a handful in hard situations.

You can get a spring rate tester built into the dyno as well. Doesn't help when the guy on the phone wants you to overnight something to him though..... "Hey buddy, send me one front/rear of your springs so I can build you a tune"? I also have 3 shop presses and a hydraulic scale already........

I have more open class bikes and I'm getting older, so yes, the 350/450 appeals to me. The last time I had my 525EXC out....I thought to myself "What a rocketship"! I was also thinking the weight penalty is pretty much zero between the 300 2 stroke, 350s, and 501s.....Why not just go big again so when on the street it wont be under powered? I really miss my 950 ADV S, but it was a pita to work on and I really don't want a carbed bike anymore since the do sit for a bit between rides and CA gas is hell on carbs!

Single track has always been my thing since we live in the mountains, but open desert with historical stuff I always enjoyed too. I get the injury/risk factor....It's been on my mind a lot as I age!

 

[rharr]

You can get a spring rate tester built into the dyno as well. Doesn't help when the guy on the phone wants you to overnight something to him though..... "Hey buddy, send me one front/rear of your springs so I can build you a tune"? I also have 3 shop presses and a hydraulic scale already........

I have more open class bikes and I'm getting older, so yes, the 350/450 appeals to me. The last time I had my 525EXC out....I thought to myself "What a rocketship"! I was also thinking the weight penalty is pretty much zero between the 300 2 stroke, 350s, and 501s.....Why not just go big again so when on the street it wont be under powered? I really miss my 950 ADV S, but it was a pita to work on and I really don't want a carbed bike anymore since the do sit for a bit between rides and CA gas is hell on carbs!

Single track has always been my thing since we live in the mountains, but open desert with historical stuff I always enjoyed too. I get the injury/risk factor....It's been on my mind a lot as I age!

Ha, bikes are fun, i also have a 450x which is great for open desert blasting, but it makes me want to haul ass, and now that i am over 40 things take more time to heal

I am likely to go 2t for my next bike.

the 2ts are a little more nimble and track a little easier on tight stuff, the 390 4t is close but just a little slower to react, but not close to being a boat like the 450x.

Either way let me know if you come down, there is a good weekend pay DS event that happens in 25/26 March (https://www.tucsondualsport.com/events), but we have lots of other stuff to ride if that doesn't interest you.

 

[CrazyCooter]

More seat time today, but she felt a little choppy.....Cold weather has some to do with that.

I started carrying my thermal imager to collect a little more info after realizing the fronts run significantly warmer than the rears on a warm day due to the heat in the engine bay leaking out of the inner fenders.

You can see the solenoids run a bit warmer than the other parts of the shock at least in cold weather.

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