Reaching out to those doing their own shock tuning?

[CrazyCooter]

It's almost as if they copied my idea.

From Monroe:
"Unique precision tapered grooves in the pressure tube perform like an additional stage of valving for optimum ride tuning"

This is exactly what I imagined. I don't know the dynamic in relation to ride quality. Would it be a little more cushiony unlike a sub-1 setting where you can still feel the aggressive nature of the valving only mitigated by more access to the air charge, or would it produce a real progressive dampening? Hmm...

They are definitely wobbly in my opinion. I remeber the hype in the mid 90s when they came out. I had a coworker that sold the shit out of them for Ford Exploders, but I felt they were just too soft for the twisty roads we have in our area.

Not too long ago I razzed the Rancho guy on here about combining a RX9000 with a SensaTrac to make an adjustable bypass shock.

Its just a position sensitive bleed and would be dependent on the piston riding in the right location of the body groove. To do this, you give up some control in that zone.

This is where the SDi's really shine, but at a larger price tag.

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[CrazyCooter]

ahh why ruin a good shock body. if your shock is valved correctly you don't need hacks, bypass is for blasting through the desert at race pace, and your not doing that fully kitted with a stove hanging off the back.

worst case add some hydraulic bump stops the to remove the harshness.

motocross bikes don't have fancy triple bypass shocks and can still manage a wide range of terrain and they are pushed harder then a jeep.

You mention the hydraulic bumps.......

This is my first trip out on the Fox 2.5 since I removed the hydraulic bumps. I would NEVER install a set on my dual purpose street legal vehicle again! With properly tuned and adjusted shocks combined with a nice progressive poly foam bumpstop cushions, there is no need for all that noise and extra maintenance.

 

[rharr]

i agree, the hydro bumps are really only for people who like to slam stuff and go fast. End of the day, for the price of hydro bumps and good shocks i bet a set of SDI price out about the same.

 

[CrazyCooter]

i agree, the hydro bumps are really only for people who like to slam stuff and go fast. End of the day, for the price of hydro bumps and good shocks i bet a set of SDI price out about the same.

Yep, SDi's are about the same price as the Fox 2.5 and matching hydraulic bumps without the knocking noises every time they contact your axle, extra install, hassle,nor maintenance of 4 more items. If you are jumping/thrashing the vehicle, having a stop that's tunable could be required I suppose.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Its just a position sensitive bleed and would be dependent on the piston riding in the right location of the body groove. To do this, you give up some control in that zone.

That's what I want in that narrow range.
I think the question is not how much is given up in that range, but how well the transition out of the bypass section will occur, particularly on the pavement.

This is where the SDi's really shine,

Can the basic SDIs be upgraded to the shifter knob versions?

 

[CrazyCooter]

That's what I want in that narrow range.
I think the question is not how much is given up in that range, but how well the transition out of the bypass section will occur, particularly on the pavement.



Can the basic SDIs be upgraded to the shifter knob versions?

That would be the trick question! Temperature, spring rate, oil's viscocity index,, and actual load would be factors that would alter the available damping forces, so I can't see how one could get it good enough to always work under every condition?

I do not know for sure if the SDi's can be for sure since I've never inquired, but I believe it would be an ecm reflash and add the shifter knob. I would never recommend buying the system without the Active Pro menu options because you get SO much more ability to tailor ride quality to meet your desires. No doubt it will cost more money to upgrade it later if you decide.

Imagine being able to ride down a strait road unloaded with the plushness of a 70s Caddy, while being able to toss your truck through the next corner transitioning into a 4 wheeled drift, and back to plush on the strait road? Hook up a loaded travel trailer with a moto in the bed and be able to dial out the porpoise by altering the damping forces of each individual axle all from the driver's seat without stopping? Gain huge confidence and comfort off road with reduced pitch, roll, and eliminating bottoming by dialing how much damping your situation requires and letting the computer do the rest? This is what I'm doing with my setup!

The simple system with the switch can't do this.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Fox shock tuning updates:

It's been a while since I have done any work with the Fox 2.5's since I have been devoted most of my time perfecting tuning for the @SuspensionDirect E-Cliks, BUT.......... I had sent off my ECM and touch screen to SDi for some updates and "secret squirrel" upgrades, so I took this opportunity to swap the Fox's back on and test for valving changes with @Clayton Off Road 's more recently released HD rear springs that are right at 10% firmer than the original SD offering.

We were taking a 5300 mile dual sport loop with the 19FBS GeoPro RV in tow heading north out of CA beginning with North Cascades National Park, Glacier National Park, Theodore Roosevelt National Park, Sturgis, Devil's Tower, Mt Rushmore, Crazy Horse, Wounded Knee, Badlands, Minuteman Missile Silos, Pikes Peak, San Rafael Swell, and a bunch of other historical/scenic stops along the way. Perfect time to do some testing taking notes along the way so that I could make those changes when we return........

First on the agenda was to reduce the high speed damping! I had noted since install the 38" Ridge Grappys that the small rough chop on paved roads was a bit on the much side as the tire pressure grew. I also have noted that these tires seem to increase in pressure throughout the day more than any other tire I have run in the past. Then combine that there is a strange resonance when you thump these tires with your fist or other hard object that was not there with my Cooper STT's or other client tires like Micky Thompsons or Toyo MT's. With the OE Falcon 33's, M/T 35's, and Cooper STT 37's the high speed seemed fine, but the jump to 38's just wrecked things and I found myself wanting to drop tire pressure mid day to gain some comfort.

I had noted that I was running the high speed clicker all the way loose F/R and I had already mellowed out the high speed valve stack on the piston inside the shock, so the obvious choice was to make a change to the valve stack in the bridge in attempting to get that high speed clicker more toward the center of adjustment in the front shocks and toward the bottom with the rears leaving headroom for loads in the bed and trailer tongue weight. I also noted that the rebound needed work becuse of the increased spring rate since I had tuned these for the original lighter Clayton rear springs.

These shocks now have right at 30K miles on them with some spirited dual sport driving! The oil was more of a purple color than the original translucent cherry red. No seals were leaking, so I just replaced the piston wear bands and added new oil while I was making the changes.

Overall I was pretty happy with the performance as it was, but I know it could be better! I really did however miss the E-Cliks! Being able to dial out porpoise and wiggling from the midwest winds would have been super nice on this trip especially since were were right at the ragged edge of overloaded! When we left home I rolled over the scales and were were right at 12,000lb GCVW and over on the RAWR, so I immediately dropped some water, moved some weight around, adjusted the weight distbition hitch, and added air to the rear tires for an amazing improvement in driveablity.

Spent the entire day at the shop doing maintanace like tire rotation/balance and the shock work today. It was a treat as I had started a quick temp install of a 5ton package A/C unit as a test to see if that would be enough to dry out the air and cool it enough to be better than the two evap coolers I have used over the past 20 years there. It was only 95 today and humid for our area, but it was 76-78° and pretty dry inside the shop! I hope it will work better with proper air distribution and air tight ducting.

So unloaded my settings ended up Front: 5 low speed/6 high speed Rear: 1 low speed/2 high speed I'd say that's a wrap on the compression! I'm going to do more testing off road to see how the rebound works and I also made a change in the bleed in the rear. See if I went too far OR if it's perfect........ I'll update ya!

 

[CrazyCooter]

More.....

 

[chorky]

You mention the hydraulic bumps.......

This is my first trip out on the Fox 2.5 since I removed the hydraulic bumps. I would NEVER install a set on my dual purpose street legal vehicle again! With properly tuned and adjusted shocks combined with a nice progressive poly foam bumpstop cushions, there is no need for all that noise and extra maintenance.

I agree fully with this as well. I was bottoming out frequently on a trip about a moth ago purely due to going too fast and I wanted to test things out. It is amazing what a progressive foam style bumpstop will do!

 

[CrazyCooter]

@Pescatoral Pursuit

Here ya go.....This could be along the lines if what you want?

Truck that was in the shop yesterday......

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

@Pescatoral Pursuit

Here ya go.....This could be along the lines if what you want?

Truck that was in the shop yesterday......

Not necessarily but maybe. I can't feel them from here, lol.

 

[Halvard]

OK... So I've read the whole thread, but unfortunately I'm not able to translate valve tuning tables...

We just bought a JT last Friday, 3.0 V6 Overlander, and as I had already heard, the shocks are not good enough. I have some practically new Bilsteins lying around from my CJ-7 that are the correct length for the rear, but I'm not able to find any valving numbers.

I have two different types, and they are valved 170/80 (PN 33-230362) and 255/70 (PN 33-185569) respectively.
Would any of thes work for the rear of the Gladiator?

Thanks

 

[CrazyCooter]

OK... So I've read the whole thread, but unfortunately I'm not able to translate valve tuning tables...

We just bought a JT last Friday, 3.0 V6 Overlander, and as I had already heard, the shocks are not good enough. I have some practically new Bilsteins lying around from my CJ-7 that are the correct length for the rear, but I'm not able to find any valving numbers.

I have two different types, and they are valved 170/80 (PN 33-230362) and 255/70 (PN 33-185569) respectively.
Would any of thes work for the rear of the Gladiator?

Thanks

From my experience with Bilstein valving......neither of those will be firm enough in a single shock application to do anything on a JT especially on the front axle. You didn't mention whether or not they are digressive valving.

I have have had 5165 in the 170/80 and 255/70 on the front of my 5 linked YJ, 255/70 and 360/80 on the rear (leaf springs). I still tightened up the bleeds, added a lot more rebound, and little more compression to get even that vehicle riding under control.....It's still under construction and took a back seat with all I have been doing with the JT guys.

I just had a guy with a 1997 F250 with 255/70 all the way around and it wobbles uncontrollably like a v-hull boat on rough water....... I told the guy 2 at each corner would be a good start.

I'm going to guess the OE shocks might serve you better? By design the 5100's are constructed better, but the valving in the shock you have will just be too soft even if they were the right size to fit........Pretty sure they would be too short, but it's been a LONG time since I built a CJ!

 

[Halvard]

Thanks for the comprehensive answer @CrazyCooter!

Yes, these are digressive and the 255/70 perform very well on the CJ as a single application. But I'm wortking hard on keeping the vehicle light and the springs are custom length and spring rate for my application. 170/80 made it bob around a bit in the rear, very much like the JT does now pulling a 4500 lbs trailer. Length would not have been a problem in the rear, as I have cut and welded on some F250 shock towers, giving me the same collapsed length and 2" more on extension.

Any recomendationon shocks since I cant use the ones I have?
I very much like the digressive setup for handling. It is a daily driver with occatinal towing. Will go camping with a light as possible setup (roof top tent on the bed) and probably upgrade to 33 or 35" tires.

 

[CrazyCooter]

I'm a huge fan of monotube ifp shock designs as they don't seem to fade as quickly and react to the fast shaft speed hits.

For a budget offering, the 5100's are probably as good as it gets however I do usually feel they are a bit softer then I like. You did mention keeping things light, so that might be the perfect option. For the OE applications, Bilstein usually valves digressive from my research.

I really like something that has at least a compression adjustment so that you can dial in somewhat to your liking with/without a load, but an adjustable monotube that fits our JT's starts getting real expensive since nobody makes a 2.0" by application.

If KYB would ever make us a Monomax or even the AGX, that could be the perfect solution!

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