Reaching out to those doing their own shock tuning?

[fourfa]

@CrazyCooter did you get a better good sense of how the Falcon adjusters work? From driving on them, it seems like the upper adjuster mainly affects high speed / high frequency stuff, which makes sense. But the lower shaft-twist adjuster also seems like it mainly affects HF, when what the shock really needs is more low speed / low frequency control

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[CrazyCooter]

@CrazyCooter did you get a better good sense of how the Falcon adjusters work? From driving on them, it seems like the upper adjuster mainly affects high speed / high frequency stuff, which makes sense. But the lower shaft-twist adjuster also seems like it mainly affects HF, when what the shock really needs is more low speed / low frequency control

I didn't get a chance to really "Test" the vehicle with any significant road time and no off road. I did note that with the adjuster on "1" the shock compressed super easy and on "2 or 3" much more firm. This particular shock was one of the earliest builds before the SP2 shaft adjustment was available. I assumed the shaft twist was mainly a bleed adjustment on the piston looking at the videos, but have not seen one in person yet.

The owner sent me some video rolling over my test spot and the truck definitely needs more comp damping. Hard to tell on the rebound since he is living on the "Speed Bumps" right now.

I think I mentioned before that he just runs them on "3" wanting more damping yet.

 

[smlobx]

I read the first page and was going to say something but then realized how old this thread is and didn’t bother to read all the pages in between.

Like the OP I have I have had the benefit of driving a vehicle that has been professionally tuned. In my case it was my Porsche race car with a competition set of Ohlin coilovers. Even with this proven set up we switched out spring sets to fine tune the car to a particular track etc. The Ohlins start at about $8K and that gets your foot in the door but there was a lot of R&D that went into the package and it was just a matter of fine tuning and corner balancing the car.

Generically speaking, and this is no slight on anyone, but you have to look at suspension as a whole package. IMHO you cannot just throw parts at the vehicle thinking that it will improve something without understanding how it will affect the rest of the equation. This is why I am a big fan of buying a complete package from one vendor that has a proven system. Yes, there are some suspect vendors out there but a little research should put you on the right track. You should also realize that it is going to cost you.

In my case, for my application, I’ll be going with an AEV set-up as I believe they have the best package for my set up.

 

[CrazyCooter]

I read the first page and was going to say something but then realized how old this thread is and didn’t bother to read all the pages in between.

Like the OP I have I have had the benefit of driving a vehicle that has been professionally tuned. In my case it was my Porsche race car with a competition set of Ohlin coilovers. Even with this proven set up we switched out spring sets to fine tune the car to a particular track etc. The Ohlins start at about $8K and that gets your foot in the door but there was a lot of R&D that went into the package and it was just a matter of fine tuning and corner balancing the car.

Generically speaking, and this is no slight on anyone, but you have to look at suspension as a whole package. IMHO you cannot just throw parts at the vehicle thinking that it will improve something without understanding how it will affect the rest of the equation. This is why I am a big fan of buying a complete package from one vendor that has a proven system. Yes, there are some suspect vendors out there but a little research should put you on the right track. You should also realize that it is going to cost you.

In my case, for my application, I’ll be going with an AEV set-up as I believe they have the best package for my set up.

You have missed out on a ton of info in the thread from the beginning till now.

I totally agree with you on the package having to be matched....one part swapped out without considering the after effects can kill it! This is why I have only been working with people who have suspension components I have experience with otherwise it;'s just another hodgepodge of stuff stacked together like most people run.

I have passed on more shock re-valving jobs than I have done because there is no way to get it right over the phone without the proper feedback, video, or hands on testing.

I have seen both ways with the AEV packages......Some drive great and seem not so. I hate the system on a client's JL and we don't like it as much as his JK for sure. Have not driven any AEV JT stuff since I'm doing the Clayton parts in my shop for the overlander/haulers.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

I wouldn't even mind cracking open a set of Tera Falcons and working those over for the crowd that already bought them and they don't like the combination?

Fascinating thread! I have Falcons and while the adjustability is great, it comes up short in some areas and I think would benefit from tuning:

Falcon 3.3s (adjustable,) JTRD with a winch, GAS Skyjacker 3.5" dual-rate springs (next step soon is 4.5") with 37" KO2s @ 37#. The shocks are set to roughly 4½" of up travel with the bumps around 4".
Road manners are great in either 1 or 3 setting, and tire wear in the 25k+ miles is even.
This is my work truck during the week with about 200-400# of equipment in the bed, and on the weekends the bed gets emptied but for essentials, sometimes the doors come off, and I like to run the trails of Central Florida which mostly consist of sand and clay, varying terrain from washboard to sm/ med washout, potholes, and moderate and/ or severe whoops.
I can and do cycle through all 3 settings several times in one trip with the 1 setting not being light enough (perhaps because of digressive valving?) and the 3 setting occasionally not being firm enough (bottoming out likely due to gas springs.)
The middle setting is my happy place and at 2.3 really loves the windey, whoopy trails at around 20-30 mph up to barely moderate whoops (with the sway bar disco'd.)
In that I can really throw the Jeep around and it feels great! Planted and not overly or under responsive, there's a sweet spot where it feels like I'm riding on a rail. (The steering leaves some to be desired but that's another thread I suppose.)
My goal is to get a little softer on the bottom end to take the chatter out of washboard roads and softer on speed bumps on the black, and a pinch more on the firm end to help with bottoming out.
I would also like to be able to toggle through the settings in the cab. Adjustable shocks are fantastic but stopping getting out and doing the rounds every terrain change does get a little old.
To sum it up, I'm looking for about 15-20% extra on each end.

Whaddya think?

 

[CrazyCooter]

Fascinating thread! I have Falcons and while the adjustability is great, it comes up short in some areas and I think would benefit from tuning:

Falcon 3.3s (adjustable,) JTRD with a winch, GAS Skyjacker 3.5" dual-rate springs (next step soon is 4.5") with 37" KO2s @ 37#. The shocks are set to roughly 4½" of up travel with the bumps around 4".
Road manners are great in either 1 or 3 setting, and tire wear in the 25k+ miles is even.
This is my work truck during the week with about 200-400# of equipment in the bed, and on the weekends the bed gets emptied but for essentials, sometimes the doors come off, and I like to run the trails of Central Florida which mostly consist of sand and clay, varying terrain from washboard to sm/ med washout, potholes, and moderate and/ or severe whoops.
I can and do cycle through all 3 settings several times in one trip with the 1 setting not being light enough (perhaps because of digressive valving?) and the 3 setting occasionally not being firm enough (bottoming out likely due to gas springs.)
The middle setting is my happy place and at 2.3 really loves the windey, whoopy trails at around 20-30 mph up to barely moderate whoops (with the sway bar disco'd.)
In that I can really throw the Jeep around and it feels great! Planted and not overly or under responsive, there's a sweet spot where it feels like I'm riding on a rail. (The steering leaves some to be desired but that's another thread I suppose.)
My goal is to get a little softer on the bottom end to take the chatter out of washboard roads and softer on speed bumps on the black, and a pinch more on the firm end to help with bottoming out.
I would also like to be able to toggle through the settings in the cab. Adjustable shocks are fantastic but stopping getting out and doing the rounds every terrain change does get a little old.
To sum it up, I'm looking for about 15-20% extra on each end.

Whaddya think?

What do I think.........No insult or disrespect meant here whatsoever, just my random strait up honest thoughts......... I have been told before that I'm just a "matter of fact guy" with no filter.

You bought two brands that have pretty much zero factory or aftermarket support. Tera has denied service and parts info to many people I know and they only reason I can see to be like this is to keep people dependent on them even though they won't do anything other than rebuild your shocks to their OE spec. I've searched the web again recently and have come up with pretty much zero....... Skyjacker puts out a decent mid line product generally with a non serviceable shock, so less should be expected from them?

Can a person open your shocks and come up with something that could work better based on your feedback? Probably, but without first knowing what's inside, I couldn't tell you what exactly I would plan do. I suspect yours will look like the JK shocks I just took apart except you have a SP2 version? I noted on those early version JK Falcons used a simple "Linear" piston with just a simple compression stack while the rebound appeared digressive referred to as "Die-Gressive" by many with that funky preloaded ring shim configuration.


So far with the SDi and Fox shocks I have been working with, the front shim stack design looks very similar between them to control that mid speed bottoming. I suspect the same profile shape could be adapted your Falcons up front.

You don't seem to have any complaints with the rebound? I have found getting the rebound dialed in has taken the most time to get right so that the chassis dosn't wobble after an event, but also doesn't pack or buck up.

If you want me to open them up and have a go.........Might be a start to getting you guys that are so heavily invested in these shocks working better?

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

You don't seem to have any complaints with the rebound? I have found getting the rebound dialed in has taken the most time to get right so that the chassis dosn't wobble after an event,

Bucks like a bronco on the lighter settings. I just assumed that came with the territory. As I read above: "the best profile is only the one you've experienced" or something like that.

The only time I'm completely happy is the high setting on the blacktop where the ride is firm, and the aforementioned mid-setting trail rides.

If you want me to open them up and have a go.........Might be a start to getting you guys that are so heavily invested in these shocks working better?

I'm not married to these shocks and bought them because they are adjustable not any brand loyalty. I considered the 3.5 just to be able to switch in the cab but they only allow for 2 settings or a third which switches between the 2 depending on conditions. Not what I want.

Based on my original post's criteria, what is your opinion of the E-cliks satisfying those?

 

[CrazyCooter]

Bucks like a bronco on the lighter settings. I just assumed that came with the territory. As I read above: "the best profile is only the one you've experienced" or something like that.

The only time I'm completely happy is the high setting on the blacktop where the ride is firm, and the aforementioned mid-setting trail rides.



I'm not married to these shocks and bought them because they are adjustable not any brand loyalty. I considered the 3.5 just to be able to switch in the cab but they only allow for 2 settings or a third which switches between the 2 depending on conditions. Not what I want.

Based on my original post's criteria, what is your opinion of the E-cliks satisfying those?

So this whole thing is kind of tricky......The spring rates need to be matched to the weight of your loaded truck and shock valving needs to be matched to the weight, spring rate, and tune for intended use or it's just a compromise. Years of riding motorcycles, ATVs and SXS's with fully adjustable clickers and custom tuning has spoiled me and I don't want to compromise in my street vehicles now.

So far nobody is freely posting up their spring rates except Clayton and Synergy, but I think you can get the rates from Eibach if you try hard enough. Hard to make a good close setup over the phone without those spring rate numbers...... This is kind of why I have only worked with those over the phone who are running Clayton springs as I have a known good solution that works awesome for those rates.

Yes the SDi E-Cliks are an amazing piece of technology that allow you to kind of have it all by adjusting settings on the touch screen. If you read my experience here that I felt the front E-Cliks needed more mid speed compression for the diesel especially and a lot more rebound damping to control the Clayton spring rates that I run in my truck. I have tuned quite a few sets for guys on Clayton springs and heavier PCOR/Alu-Cab builds exceeding the GVWR with great feedback. Wanna roadrace and drift corners.....Just an adjustment sway on the shifter knob touchscreen! When I hook up my RV......Just dial out the porpoise! "Baja mode" is supposed to be coming to the E-Clik Jeep offering soon too!

I have no idea if you would be happy with the E-Cliks out of the box with your current springs. I have a local client driving a 2020 gas JT who is on my stock diesel front springs, stock rear springs, and spacers w/ E-Cliks and he just loves it, but he did come from the OE Fox shocks that were horribly under damped for the diesel springs. I know I could make it ride better on the street with a few tweaks, but I have not driven hos truck off road yet.

Two other cool E-Clik features that I feel are under advertised......The "Bump Zone" for an increase damping toward the end of stroke and available H/S button which makes the suspension go full hard for 3 secs or until you release the button for those obstacles that sneak up on you at high speed. I have ditched my Fox airbumps since installing the E-Cliks.......This kind of makes the higher price tag easier to swallow? Less components to maintain too! I have been including the H/S button in all of my builds now since it's only like $60.

 

[PackMule]

@Pescatoral Pursuit , Are your Falcons the JT Diesel version, or JT Gas versions? Falcon is one of the only manufacturers that offers a Diesel specific JT shock...different part numbers on their website. I'm assuming the Diesel version has more damping for the heavier front end.

 

[CrazyCooter]

@Pescatoral Pursuit , Are your Falcons the JT Diesel version, or JT Gas versions? Falcon is one of the only manufacturers that offers a Diesel specific JT shock...different part numbers on their website. I'm assuming the Diesel version has more damping for the heavier front end.

They would have to be the diesel versions or the battery would have to be relocated to fit the larger gas version reservoirs. The diesel versions are much smaller to fit.

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/...-fast-adjust-piggyback-shock-kit-2-4-5in-lift

Vs.

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/...x-falcon-sp2-3-3-fast-adjust-piggyback-shocks

I think it would be reasonable to assume there is a valving difference between the two or they would just discontinue the gas version knowing the smaller diesel version would physically fit in either rig?

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

@Pescatoral Pursuit , Are your Falcons the JT Diesel version, or JT Gas versions? Falcon is one of the only manufacturers that offers a Diesel specific JT shock...different part numbers on their website. I'm assuming the Diesel version has more damping for the heavier front end.

They're gas. I relocated the aux batt.

I heard somewhere (not Falcon) the internals are the same.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Been trying to suss out the dilemma of keeping my mid and hi rate digressive profile while softening the low end.

I wonder what the efficacy is of grooving the shock cylinder as a form of internal bypass?
Some 3-4" tapered internal grooves would provide free bypass in the +/- 2" travel range while allowing zero changes to the mid and high range profile.

Hmm...

 

[rharr]

Been trying to suss out the dilemma of keeping my mid and hi rate digressive profile while softening the low end.

I wonder what the efficacy is of grooving the shock cylinder as a form of internal bypass?
Some 3-4" tapered internal grooves would provide free bypass in the +/- 2" travel range while allowing zero changes to the mid and high range profile.

Hmm...

ahh why ruin a good shock body. if your shock is valved correctly you don't need hacks, bypass is for blasting through the desert at race pace, and your not doing that fully kitted with a stove hanging off the back.

worst case add some hydraulic bump stops the to remove the harshness.

motocross bikes don't have fancy triple bypass shocks and can still manage a wide range of terrain and they are pushed harder then a jeep.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Been trying to suss out the dilemma of keeping my mid and hi rate digressive profile while softening the low end.

I wonder what the efficacy is of grooving the shock cylinder as a form of internal bypass?
Some 3-4" tapered internal grooves would provide free bypass in the +/- 2" travel range while allowing zero changes to the mid and high range profile.

Hmm...

This is exactly what Monroe did with the Sensatrac shock.

Not what I would want to do from a performance point of view.

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

This is exactly what Monroe did with the Sensatrac shock.

Not what I would want to do from a performance point of view.

It's almost as if they copied my idea.

From Monroe:
"Unique precision tapered grooves in the pressure tube perform like an additional stage of valving for optimum ride tuning"

This is exactly what I imagined. I don't know the dynamic in relation to ride quality. Would it be a little more cushiony unlike a sub-1 setting where you can still feel the aggressive nature of the valving only mitigated by more access to the air charge, or would it produce a real progressive dampening? Hmm...

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