Rust on New Mojave

[ShadowsPapa]

Yea being a plastic panel there it can only be cheep hardware. Easy enough to remove, one at a time, to be taken with you to match up with? Brass? Stainless? Aluminum? Something that will stand the test of time.

I found the specs without pulling one. Now to dig through sources..,.....

There's no excuse for that not being properly plated other than inferior products being sourced.
If mine ever did rust, I'd do a quality plate job unless my sources can come through.

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[jac04]

I found the specs without pulling one.

Please share.

 

[hayduke-TX]

Please share.

You know he will. In some detail.

 

[BeastlyGladiator]

Mojave's use a heavier steel hood (rather than alum) which I believe makes the rust a 10x worse issue from a rust perspective. The paint sealant used for protecting the paint from oxidation is very poor. When new, a few years ago, my Mojave had the exact same rust spots on the hood...infact when I looked closer they were everywhere. The dealership called it "rail dust" and refused to cover it as a defective paint clear coat. They saw the oxidation as a normal part of wear and tear, despite the vehicle having been regularly washed and carnauba waxed. I ended up claybar-ing the bar to remove oxidation, and then applied ceramic coating which effectively creates a barrier on top of their clear coat sealant which does a decent job of keeping the Jeep from turning into a rusty brown color.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Mojave's use a heavier steel hood (rather than alum) which I believe makes the rust a 10x worse issue from a rust perspective. The paint sealant used for protecting the paint from oxidation is very poor. When new, a few years ago, my Mojave had the exact same rust spots on the hood...infact when I looked closer they were everywhere. The dealership called it "rail dust" and refused to cover it as a defective paint clear coat. They saw the oxidation as a normal part of wear and tear, despite the vehicle having been regularly washed and carnauba waxed. I ended up claybar-ing the bar to remove oxidation, and then applied ceramic coating which effectively creates a barrier on top of their clear coat sealant which does a decent job of keeping the Jeep from turning into a rusty brown color.

Aluminum hoods are far worse.
These are clear coat, not a "sealant" to protect from oxidation.

We'd have less issues if these were all steel. My steel Silverado had no rust, and it sat under a lean-to a lot, exposed to the sun and weather, and was driven in the winter.

What we're seeing here is BOLT rust, not the hood. The bolts in this thread are nothing to do with steel or aluminum hoods - it's the cowl bolts, not the hood bolts, and the cowl isn't metal.

The recesses around the bolts on the cowl have drains - are these open in the cases where there's trouble?

The bolts (found most of this on the internet, extrapolated some of it)
6mmx1.0 so a 6mm bolt, 1.0 thread pitch.
length is 65 mm from bottom of hood to ends of the threads (there's what looks like a taper on the bottom end so the actual technical length could be a bit more - like 66mm
Shoulder is 48mm long and I figure 8mm diameter.
You could fudge a bit on the diameter due to what it does and how it works to hold the cowl.
So I figured a 6mm bolt, and a shoulder of 8mm which looks correct in pictures- the shoulder being about 1mm thicker or proud of the threads.

I suspect from the pictures, it's a standard button head bolt with a captured washer under the head.

OK, those who have pulled these apart - is that at least close?

 

[jac04]

So where do you find this 'standard button head bolt' that meets all the specs?

Also, what about the washer? Thickness of the washer is critical because it sets the distance between the bottom surface of the washer and the bottom surface of the shoulder. When you tighten the bolt, it tightens against the bottom surface of the shoulder. The distance between the bottom surface of the washer and the bottom surface of the shoulder must be correct or you could either crush the plastic cowl or end up with a loose cowl.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So where do you find this 'standard button head bolt' that meets all the specs?

Also, what about the washer? Thickness of the washer is critical because it sets the distance between the bottom surface of the washer and the bottom surface of the shoulder. When you tighten the bolt, it tightens against the bottom surface of the shoulder. The distance between the bottom surface of the washer and the bottom surface of the shoulder must be correct or you could either crush the plastic cowl or end up with a loose cowl.

My one and only concern is the shoulder.
Washer? Really? You can buy those in so many thicknesses it's amazing.
Depending on the shoulder, you could use a thicker or thinner "washer".
I suspect you can't really tell from this picture - but the rocker arm pedestals have washers under them to shim them up to get the lifter preload just right due to mods I made on the head.
I ordered varying thicknesses and kept tweaking until I got the rocker pattern across the valve stem and the lifter preload just right.

So my only concern is the shoulder. I am not at all concerned about the washers.
But if you can get right close to the shoulder length, you can use the correct washer thickness to make it perfect.

Or, you can go to a salvage yard, pull out the bolts from a wrecked JTM, send them to me to be properly plated instead of the crap used on some of these bolts.

 

[jac04]

I always find it funny when you make statements like you know what you're talking about, only to find out that you don't, then you just won't give up on it. Oh, and throw in a story about something completely different just to try to prove to people that you're still smarter than them.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I always find it funny when you make statements like you know what you're talking about, only to find out that you don't, then you just won't give up on it. Oh, and throw in a story about something completely different to just try to prove to people that you're still smarter than them.

Now where did I do that?
Where did I find out I don't know what I'm talking about?

I do plate bolts - for me, it's the easiest and fastest and far better quality than the finish on the cowl bolts on these. And I offer that for others.

You can absolutely buy washers of almost any size and thickness. It's not a completely different story - it's evidence you CAN get washers of any thickness after you questioned the washer thickness and a real example. You mentioned the washers would be a problem - I was only showing no, they won't.

So here's the washers I talk about - what size do you want, what thickness?
The M8 would go over the 8mm diameter shoulder.

And this one is even BLACK -

I was simply addressing your concerns. And washers are not a concern at all.

 

[jac04]

Now where did I do that?

See, you're doing it again. You make statements of fact that aren't really facts, and you just can't accept that what you said isn't correct.

As far as finding them - easy as heck - Amazon or McMaster-Carr

But you couldn't find them.

Again, Amazon or McMaster-Carr
Those aren't specially made bolts for just one application. They'll be pretty standard.
It's not rocket science. Pull one, measure it and look it up on any bolt supply site.

Nope, not standard. Wrong again.

I'd rather not mess up the plating or paint on mine, but have found shoulder bolts quite similar within 2 minutes, so it's still possible. An alternative is a bolt with a sleeve. Problem solved.
There's no way you have to use a MOPAR screw there.
It's what you do when you are in restorations - have access to almost anything.............

Now you're too worried about messing up a bolt by removing it? But, maybe that's "what you do when you are in restorations".

Anyhow, for the benefit of the forum members, make sure to post a hardware list for the replacement of the cowl bolts when you come up with it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Since it's believed I'll never come up with proper replacements - I'm going to quit looking. Too bad, was really close and found a bag of 25 for $65 (almost correct, was going to write them as they had a whole page I didn't feel like going through.)
I figured for that price, I'd buy them, plate them black zinc and go from there. Maybe sell them for 3 or 4 bucks each. Forget it.
$2.60/bolt. But getting mocked for my efforts, forget it. I've got other things to do.

6mm x 1.0 thread, 8mm shoulder. I was 5mm from the correct shoulder length and said screw it.

Try to help and get trashed.

 

[Badunit]

I must have missed the post where someone proved these bolts are so custom in size and length and shape that there is no "standard" replacement available from any company (McMaster Carr or other), not even ones that could be shimmed with available washers. Can someone point me to that post where someone took one of these bolts out and tried a suggested replacement and it didn't work?

 

[Badunit]

This is what the '23 parts manual calls for and it is listed simply as "SCREW". It does not specify different screws for different trim levels; I don't know if Mojave is different. The other bolt that was posted, 06512790AA, isn't shown in the diagram but is listed in the parts listas "SCREW, CROSS RECESSED HEAD, M6X1.00X65.6, Cowl to Cowl End Caps"

 

[Mr Miami]

I always find it funny when you make statements like you know what you're talking about, only to find out that you don't, then you just won't give up on it. Oh, and throw in a story about something completely different just to try to prove to people that you're still smarter than them.

You're mocking one of the best resource people on this site. I'm sure he's forgotten (if that's possible with him) more relevant information here than you will ever know.

If you're that smart then why are you asking questions like that in the first place? You should already know the answer, great wise one. Ha ha ha.

 

[jac04]

You're mocking one of the best resource people on this site. I'm sure he's forgotten (if that's possible with him) more relevant information here than you will ever know.

If you're that smart then why are you asking questions like that in the first place? You should already know the answer, great wise one. Ha ha ha.

You have no idea who I am or what I have been doing for a living for over 30 years. Unlike the great Papa, I see no need to regularly pontificate about how great I am or about how I know more than someone else, or pretend to know things that I don't know.

I can tell you that your supposition about what I know relative to Papa could not be farther from the truth. I work on stuff that would make Papa's head spin. Stuff where failures are not tolerated, and any statements I make have to be based 100% on certainty because people are taking action based on my statements. Downtime for the equipment I support is measured in millions of dollars per hour.

So, yeah, when someone makes a statement of fact that is just a guess, I'll call them out on it.

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