futzin'

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Worried about Ford? 4 recalls on my 2015 Transit. Waiting to get the latest one done.
Well, they say that Step One is admitting you have a problem . . . :)





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Terry

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Whoa, dude. I didn't come up with the plan to de-tune the engine. That is what FCA said they were doing in the recall, prior to the Stop-Sale order. Then, after initially planning to recall all manual Gladiators and apply the de-tune in the software, FCA seems to have changed tack, and issued the Stop-Sale, which might mean that they have a different plan. Of course, their plan may not have changed, and maybe they just decided to stop selling new manuals while they apply the software adjustment to their stock of new vehicles and to the ones being brought in current owners.

I get that you are annoyed. I would be too. No one wants to take their vehicle in and get the power reduced. No one. I never suggested that the de-tune was a real fix, I was presenting a couple of different scenarios that FCA might be pursuing.

If I owned a manual Gladiator I would be starting a petition on this forum and I'd include all the signatures I gathered in a letter to FCA, requesting a hardware solution - not a software adjustment that de-tunes the engine. I would not take my truck in for the de-tune - even if they say the reduction in torque only occurs under high heat, which was in one of the recall notices that I can't find right now. The recall I can find says nothing about high heat, just that they will "add software to reduce engine torque capability, free of charge" (!). You can read that recall notice here. I'd consider pursuing a couple of options: (1) I'd see if my local Jeep dealer would install a Center Force clutch for free (I buy the part, they do the labor for free). I have a great relationahip with both my local Jeep and Toyota dealers, and have been able to swing a deal like this in the past. If that didn't work out, I would go to option (2) trade in the manual for an auto, and insist politely on a very high trade-in value. Sales managers can be very reasonable when the conversation is respectful and the proposal is realistic (although there are some dealerships where that will never be true).

Good luck!
I wasn't speaking you directly, I was answering to the question. And my name isn't Dude
 

redrider

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Dude. Another word that irritates the snot out of me along with: like, got and guys (in mixed company).
 

Empty Pockets

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I took mine in for “inspection “ when this first surfaced. They “inspected” the clutch, installed the fireproofing mod, and told me my clutch was not one of the recalled part numbers. Now this?? The manual transmission is the ONLY reason that I traded out of my very low mile and excellent condition Silverado. Reducing the torque in high heat situations, when you likely need all the torque you can get, is not a fix.

I was selling Mazda’s back in 2002 when the Miata was initially advertised at 160HP. Testing showed the engine really made only 142HP. Mazda was forced to offer a voluntary buy-back. Customers could return the cars (and 2 seat sport cars are a high-impulse purchase later regretted by many) for sticker price. People drove the cars for months and brought them back making a profit!

I wouldn’t sell my JT back because I’d get stuck with an automatic, which I do not want. (NOT THAT THIS IS OFFERED, TO BE CLEAR) I just want them to fix it right. Tis and my sloppy steering that they have been jacking me around on since September.

Jeep Cares......... can you hear me????
 

JeepCares

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They are going to release an upgraded clutch and bite the bullet on the recall which Jeep has been trying to avoid. It happens.
The recall repair is a software flash. No information on an upgraded clutch at this time.

Kaitlin
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JeepCares

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There is no difference in the engine's power output under "normal circumstances" with the Y01 flash. The torque reduction only happens if the engine controller calculates the clutch pressure plate temperature is above a certain temperature threshold. The engine's normal output torque is restored when the clutch pressure plate's temperature falls below the threshold that will not cause damage. If the driving behavior that initially caused the condition continues after full engine torque is restored, and the temperature threshold is exceeded, the engine torque will be reduced again.

Kaitlin
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Happiator

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There is no difference in the engine's power output under "normal circumstances" with the Y01 flash. The torque reduction only happens if the engine controller calculates the clutch pressure plate temperature is above a certain temperature threshold. The engine's normal output torque is restored when the clutch pressure plate's temperature falls below the threshold that will not cause damage. If the driving behavior that initially caused the condition continues after full engine torque is restored, and the temperature threshold is exceeded, the engine torque will be reduced again.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares
Can you define "normal circumstances"? What is the temperature trigger?
 

DanW

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Can you define "normal circumstances"? What is the temperature trigger?
The temperature trigger would be very high. Go back to the original NHTSA report and see. The Jeep that burned had the pressure plate reach 1100 degrees. That damaged it. You'd have to work pretty hard to get one anywhere near that kind of temperature. You'd have to work at it just to get it to half that.
 

DanW

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Also, what is the level of reduction in torque?
Guaranteed, it will be a limp mode. It will be a DOG. The idea is that it'll make you want to park it. Anything milder won't prevent a driver from continuing to slip the hell out of it and heat it up.

We will see when it comes out, but pretty sure this is what will happen. 99% of us will NEVER see this condition. The 1% or whatever who don't really know how to drive it or who have a propensity to abuse clutches, or who have the original issue with the hydraulic system will experience it. Or those of us who have a loved one or relative borrow your Jeep and abuse the hell out of it. FOr that reason, nobody is borriwing my Jeep!
 

DanW

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Btw, as for the Stop Sale........This has been mentioned before. When there is a recall, voluntary or not, it is against the law for an automaker to sell a new vehicle unless the recall has been completed.
 

Munkey Boy

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There is no difference in the engine's power output under "normal circumstances" with the Y01 flash. The torque reduction only happens if the engine controller calculates the clutch pressure plate temperature is above a certain temperature threshold. The engine's normal output torque is restored when the clutch pressure plate's temperature falls below the threshold that will not cause damage. If the driving behavior that initially caused the condition continues after full engine torque is restored, and the temperature threshold is exceeded, the engine torque will be reduced again.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares
Thank you Kaitlin for taking the time to keep us up to date. It is greatly appreciated.

I was wondering, however, given the circumstances that a clutch would see excessive use and heat during a rough terrain crawl, that if the software decreases torque output at a crucial time that this might actually be a dangerous "fix" to take over at the worst possible moment (It may also be a bit of bad advertising to see a Gladiator stuck in the middle of the Rubicon "cooling down" while a Bronco zips on by. Just sayin'.) Additionally, if the advertised horsepower of 285 and torque of 260 are not what the JT is capable of at all times, then I have to ask if a software flash doing precisely that would be anything that Jeep expects any litigation against and if a buyback at original retail would be less expensive for FCA/Stellantis than a hardware change to a true flywheel/clutch? It has been stated here, other threads, and on the Wrangler Forum that this won't step down torque under "normal circumstances", but these are Jeeps and we are not "normal" people by definition. We are not threatening to go Michael Bay with our vehicles, but there should be some level of expectation that they can withstand even the lowest of our ranks riding/slipping a clutch. (They will be dealt with accordingly. 🔨)

I don't mean to sound accusatory or skeptical about the software fix, and I do NOT have the engineering degree to back up any claims against this working just fine; however, with more decades behind the wheel with a foot on a clutch behind my belt than I care to mention, my experience tells me that this fix will create a greater problem than Jeep can willingly foresee. And that is that its core fans will be, putting it mildly, dissatisfied and unimpressed if for some reason it EVER kicks in. Granted, we won't be on fire, for which we would be grateful (thank you in advance), but our expectations of this vehicle getting us out there and, more importantly, back in one, non-incendiary piece are not a very extravagant request to ask of a bit of technology and hardware that has been around long enough to be reliable to a point of not ever messing with.

I do apologize for the tone, it is definitely not my intention to come off as ungrateful or cynical for what we actually have here even though I haven't even received my JT yet and am still excited about it in spite of this issue. But I know that you can see that we only want this glorious beast to live up to its heritage and create a proud following that will gladly spend money with FCA in the future.

Thank you again, and any further updates and information will always be greatly appreciated!
 

Empty Pockets

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Well put and I second your comments. I’ve had my manual JT for 17 months, 24K miles. Very happy so far. But also dissatisfied with this proposal to reduce torque rather than beef up the parts to the spec that they should have been in the beginning.
 

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