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Jefe1018

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40% over 4 years. The automakers already offered them more than 5% a year and got called insulting.
Interesting. I wonder what the number between 5 and 10 was offered that was called insulting. I’m also curious if these folks are exempt or not, I take it not. They are also asking for a 10% reduction in work normal working hours, so 40% raise in two years with 10% less productivity?
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KC_H

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I cant believe this thread hasn't been shut down and people banned. The owner must have a real interest in watching this thread play out.

Just like any real world topic, this one is politcal. Everything is politcal anymore. You can thank our politicians and their corporate media friends who pit us against each other and we reward them with viewership and votes.

Iam very politically biased but I ***TRY*** to assume that my adversary has nothing but good intentions because most of us, especially on this board do have good intentions. If we ever united, really united and stopped separating ourselves based on color, sex, religion or sexual orientation the uni-party would be royally fucked.
I thought that the discussion has been very civil, educational and entertaining. There are diverging viewpoints but still an excellent discussion.
 

KC_H

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Putin is a product of USSR and the KGB. he got to the top of the kgb during Comunism. He kept his ways even now. He took communism and the lessons he learned in cunning and brutality from it and applied it to his current gov. MAke no mistake, communism made Putin.
Putin was never actually a communist, everything he did he did for himself. He is after all considered to be the the richest person in the world...
 

ecidiego

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That is the way this board has been run since day one. Step a millimeter right of center and risks of being banned and/or threads deleted or locked increase significantly. Left of center, not so much.

Well run forum boards are usually benevolent dictatorships.
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Ryan...

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Putin was never actually a communist, everything he did he did for himself. He is after all considered to be the the richest person in the world...
So, he's like basically every other communist leader the world has ever seen?


Regarding the strike, I understand people are upset that CEOs are making big bucks, but you also have to weigh the cost/benefit of potentially over-valuing your labor and making those robots roll out just a little quicker to take your entire job.

People can be pissed at CEOs all they want, but when you're the top of the food chain, setting the direction for companies worth BILLIONS, the buck stops at your desk, you're going to be compensated as such. People seem to think these guys sit around with no pressure, just collecting checks. If it were that easy, companies wouldn't have them at all and they'd just assign those decisions to these laborers making $50/hr to turn a torque wrench and occasionally miss obvious QC things that we all bitch about.
 

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People can be pissed at CEOs all they want, but when you're the top of the food chain, setting the direction for companies worth BILLIONS, the buck stops at your desk, you're going to be compensated as such. People seem to think these guys sit around with no pressure, just collecting checks. If it were that easy, companies wouldn't have them at all and they'd just assign those decisions to these laborers making $50/hr to turn a torque wrench and occasionally miss obvious QC things that we all bitch about.
CEOs are normally on the board for multiple companies at once. They don't work full time or long hours, and they literally have no risk because when they screw up, they resign with a golden parachute worth millions of dollars and get hired for millions somewhere else.

Farley makes over 500x the average Ford worker. He's not working 500x as hard, or providing 500x the value. If he gets fired, his severance will be more than you earn in your lifetime, as a reward for doing a bad job.
 

Ryan...

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CEOs are normally on the board for multiple companies at once. They don't work full time or long hours, and they literally have no risk because when they screw up, they resign with a golden parachute worth millions of dollars and get hired for millions somewhere else.

Farley makes over 500x the average Ford worker. He's not working 500x as hard, or providing 500x the value. If he gets fired, his severance will be more than you earn in your lifetime, as a reward for doing a bad job.
I work 40+ hours a week, often times being placed in positions where I'm risking my life (police officer), in bad weather, shit hours, and every major holiday.

My Chief works 40hrs a week in a climate controlled office, M-F, no holidays, and he makes significantly more than me.

There are gas station employees making 75% of what I make with precisely 0 risk, M-F, etc.


Life isn't fair. If their job was "easy" there would be a line of 500 people at every company that would fight for that job and do it for 10% of the cost. But they don't, and there aren't that many people who are qualified to hold that position.

Clearly the people in charge of hiring these CEOs value them at what they're getting paid, otherwise they'd save money and hire one of the other goofballs for $200k a year.

The free market has given the value to these positions, whether we like/understand it or not.
 

DailyMoparGuy

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I work 40+ hours a week, often times being placed in positions where I'm risking my life (police officer), in bad weather, shit hours, and every major holiday.

My Chief works 40hrs a week in a climate controlled office, M-F, no holidays, and he makes significantly more than me.

There are gas station employees making 75% of what I make with precisely 0 risk, M-F, etc.


Life isn't fair. If their job was "easy" there would be a line of 500 people at every company that would fight for that job and do it for 10% of the cost. But they don't, and there aren't that many people who are qualified to hold that position.

Clearly the people in charge of hiring these CEOs value them at what they're getting paid, otherwise they'd save money and hire one of the other goofballs for $200k a year.

The free market has given the value to these positions, whether we like/understand it or not.
Perfectly said
 

bleda2002

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CEOs are normally on the board for multiple companies at once. They don't work full time or long hours, and they literally have no risk because when they screw up, they resign with a golden parachute worth millions of dollars and get hired for millions somewhere else.

Farley makes over 500x the average Ford worker. He's not working 500x as hard, or providing 500x the value. If he gets fired, his severance will be more than you earn in your lifetime, as a reward for doing a bad job.
Wow that couldn't be farther from the truth. I know our Salesforce CEO works crazy hours and everything stops with him. Every major decision ends up going across his desk even things that don't seem all that big of a deal. Our CEO makes 30 million for a much smaller company dollars wise than the auto industry and no way I think the dude is over paid as his performance is a huge reason why we are valued where we are.

Also the auto CEOs make about 360-370 what a single average employee makes. That's right in line with other CEOs of billion dollar companies because one bad decision can cost them billions in stock loses.

If these CEOs were actually doing a bad job, that would be one thing, but the fact that they're making profits while still spending billions on future road map towards EV and alternate fuels and keeping stock up seems to me that they are easily providing 360x the value of some guy on the line turning a torque wrench on a body bolt.
 
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KC_H

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So, he's like basically every other communist leader the world has ever seen?
Exactly, he is nothing more than an (albeit very successful) authoritarian. It really doesn't matter what a persons politics happen to be, if they are an authoritarian sociopath (or is it psychopath), their goals are: consolidate power, put strict controls on everything, close the ranks with strong allies, take the money to caymans...
 

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I cant believe this thread hasn't been shut down and people banned. The owner must have a real interest in watching this thread play out.

Just like any real world topic, this one is politcal. Everything is politcal anymore
It's not political in the sense of Republicans vs Democrats unless you consider unions and corporations proxys for each but that's really not what's happening here. More economic ideology than partisan politics.

There are gas station employees making 75% of what I make with precisely 0 risk, M-F, etc.
That's the most ignorant thing said on the internet today:

https://www.businessinsider.com/more-retail-workers-police-officers-killed-homicides-2019-8


Exactly, he is nothing more than an (albeit very successful) authoritarian. It really doesn't matter what a persons politics happen to be, if they are an authoritarian sociopath (or is it psychopath), their goals are: consolidate power, put strict controls on everything, close the ranks with strong allies, take the money to caymans...
You mean just like our politicians and the people who own them along with the Wall Street and Fortune 500 executives??
 
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Jefe1018

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Or NOT turning it and we get new rigs with loose everything.....lol
Or turning it set to the wrong spec for a few months and a ton of us get a recall.
 

biodiesel

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I cant believe this thread hasn't been shut down and people banned. The owner must have a real interest in watching this thread play out.

Just like any real world topic, this one is politcal. Everything is politcal anymore. You can thank our politicians and their corporate media friends who pit us against each other and we reward them with viewership and votes.
I think most of us can have an honest debate without disrespecting each other. I don't hate someone who disagrees with me politically. Discussions help everyone see both sides. As long as we aren't name calling and being disrespectful, I think Admin/Moderators are willing to let an important discussion like this go. Afterall, we all have an invested interest in the Gladiator and want to see a resolution.
 

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Sorry, I should have said "significantly less risk" being a gas station employee. Over 60k LEOs were assaulted in 2020. We train multiple times a year, every year, on how not to get killed on duty. How not to get killed is like 40% of the academy. That's a major part of the job, and we go into every call doing what we can to minimize the risk of getting hurt/killed and it STILL happens often because it's often out of our hands.

Considering the number of patrol cops working their beats every day vs retail workers, I'd say it's pretty clear which is more dangerous overall.

It's like people loving to point out that "statistically" (depending on how you view the stats/elements) loggers have a more dangerous job, while ignoring that there are different kinds of danger. One person is worried that a piece of tree might fall on them or fly out of a mis-used machine, the other gets ambushed by people with guns and attacked by other humans intent on hurting or killing them.

Citation: FBI statistics https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/fiel...cers-assaulted-and-killed-in-the-line-of-duty
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