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brianinca

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One of my concerns about the Opus/offroad trailer we're shopping for is the inability to use a WDH with the off-road revolver hitches. At 4500 lbs, the weight of a lot of the types we're looking at, it's 1000 lbs past the book "must use WDH". I've a set of Firestone airbags that will hopefully bridge the gap - not to increase the payload, but to increase the pre-load. Between the bags and Sumo springs, that will get us closer to where we are with a WDH and a 6000 lb conventional travel trailer.

We use a Husky with torsion bars, which provides sway control. As much as I like the fancier trailers, we may drop back to the simpler rigs with a max gross of 3500 lbs, it's that big of a deal.

The purpose of a WDH is to keep your front tires loaded and in control of the vehicle. It's not to be an inconvenience or an add-on, it's to keep you safe and happy. With a single axle trailer, you're already dealing with a lot less inherent stability than with a double axle rig.

It's bad enough seeing mal-adjusted WDH's on the road, it's FRIGHTENING to see bumper hitched SUV's with their asses dragging the pavement and front suspensions unloaded. We just got back from 1300 miles through NV, AZ and UT, and saw more than a few wrecks waiting to happen.

No travel trailer, because an 80 MPH windstorm was forecast, and that was bad enough with just the brick! Doing a flight plan for travel trailers is a different post.

Since the gladiator has electronic sway control would I need a weight distribution hitch for a 4000lbs trailer? The RV salesman is pushing for one but I haven't seen anyone using one at that weight....

JJ
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jsalbre

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One of my concerns about the Opus/offroad trailer we're shopping for is the inability to use a WDH with the off-road revolver hitches. At 4500 lbs, the weight of a lot of the types we're looking at, it's 1000 lbs past the book "must use WDH". I've a set of Firestone airbags that will hopefully bridge the gap - not to increase the payload, but to increase the pre-load. Between the bags and Sumo springs, that will get us closer to where we are with a WDH and a 6000 lb conventional travel trailer.

We use a Husky with torsion bars, which provides sway control. As much as I like the fancier trailers, we may drop back to the simpler rigs with a max gross of 3500 lbs, it's that big of a deal.

The purpose of a WDH is to keep your front tires loaded and in control of the vehicle. It's not to be an inconvenience or an add-on, it's to keep you safe and happy. With a single axle trailer, you're already dealing with a lot less inherent stability than with a double axle rig.

It's bad enough seeing mal-adjusted WDH's on the road, it's FRIGHTENING to see bumper hitched SUV's with their asses dragging the pavement and front suspensions unloaded. We just got back from 1300 miles through NV, AZ and UT, and saw more than a few wrecks waiting to happen.

No travel trailer, because an 80 MPH windstorm was forecast, and that was bad enough with just the brick! Doing a flight plan for travel trailers is a different post.
I had similar thoughts when we were looking at Opus and similar trailers. Some of them push the weight further back to help with the tongue weight, but that makes the trailer inherently much less stable. Unfortunately with a revolver hitch there’s just no good solution for a heavy trailer.

I guess you could put a big steel winch bumper out front with a 16.5k steel line winch. That should add some weight back to the front axle!
 

brianinca

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Decreasing tongue weight isn't an option, I scared the CRAP out of myself with a light jeep trailer and not enough tongue weight - 1500 lbs of trailer yanked my 3200 lb YJ around like a dog with a rat in its mouth. I put 90 lbs of steel plate on the front of that trailer, never happened again.

10% is the minimum I see, I have held to 12% for our big travel trailer, never an issue. 500 lbs is fine for tongue weight IF I had a WDH, but those clever hitches make that all WAY more complicated. Moving down to simpler setups at 3500 lb / 420 lb hitch may be the better solution. My winch has synthetic line to keep my payload up, else a massive winch might be a good option!

I don't see running any trails tougher than 4+ with a trailer, but a conventional pop-up with a spring over conversion and a standard ball hitch ain't gonna work for that.

Regardless, OP should have a WDH.

I had similar thoughts when we were looking at Opus and similar trailers. Some of them push the weight further back to help with the tongue weight, but that makes the trailer inherently much less stable. Unfortunately with a revolver hitch there’s just no good solution for a heavy trailer.

I guess you could put a big steel winch bumper out front with a 16.5k steel line winch. That should add some weight back to the front axle!
 

dcmdon

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I think the bottom line is that hauling a 5000 lb trailer around off road in any kind of technical terrain might not be the best idea.

i.e. You bought the wrong truck.
 

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Just to add about how different trailers have different needs...
My 5,500lb boat on double axle trailer which does not have WD hitch or sway control (surge brakes, won't work right) tows great, but very tongue-heavy (600lb). Our small (3,200lbs) TT also very tongue-heavy (450lbs) requires sway control and load distribution because it bobs and swerves around on a single axle.
Reading threads now for setup info on my new TT that will be around 6,000lbs loaded most trips. GVWR is actually 6,990 if we over-pack (!). Tongue weight 600-700lbs. Personally, I feel like that max weight would be hella-sketchy trying to merge onto a highway. 0-55 times in the "eventually" range. Hills at altitude? Something above 0mph, Maybe... LOL
 

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Rather than start another thread, what are you guys opinions on a wdh for one of these?
Jeep Gladiator Sway control 1650388652800


Its about 2K pounds dry, 3000k fully loaded, hitch weight is 325 or so fully loaded. I wasnt getting much squat on the gladiator with the clayton springs and it towed the 350 miles at 70 with no issues, but wondering if it would be worth spending the money on a wdh.
 

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I've seen professional sites say 8 to 15% depending on the weight of the trailer. Apparently they have different suggested numbers if the trailer is heavier vs. lighter.

People are lumping all trailers, types, number of axles and other things all together too often.
Some of what you do will depend on the trailer, the weight of the trailer, the number of axles and where is the weight of that trailer - up high, or all down load like a flatbed?
Not all trailers are made equal nor should it be said "do all trailers this way" or that all need WDH.
Iv'e towed with several different trucks over the years, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 4x4, 2 wheel drive, heavy trailers, light trailers....... I'm no expert by any means, but I avoid forums for info and go to the companies that make the rigs or sell the trucks. Forums are a lot of opinion, sometimes wrong.

My experience with flatbed or car hauler - the wheels are waay back there on the trailer, unlike most :"campers" or travel trailers. The longer the distance between ball and axles, the less likely it is to sway. I had a home made flatbed (heaver than heck, steel I beams from a mobile home) and the guy put the axles in the middle. It wanted to sway. A friend and I moved the axles back (that was WORK) and got rid of the sway. Because of the sheer weight of the trailer alone, then put a tractor or car on it, I did use WDH. Even with my F250 4x4 it was better with the WDH.
Then I traded it for a PJ trailer, lighter, lower, better axle placement, and I asked the company and the dealer "no WDH or sway control needed if you load it right". And I hauled that thing around the country for years, no trouble.
I bought the JT and upgraded to an Aluma tilt-bed trailer, weighing even less.
The dealer said "no WDH". I called the company to verify and the engineer, a structural engineer, said NO WDH, you'll mess up the aluminum frame with the forces those things apply to the trailer.
And thinking about it, most places I go where there are people hauling cars around on flat bed car haulers, you don't see WDH.
But I'd never not use one with a heavy enough camper or travel trailer. Especially if it was single axle - it would help take the "bounce" and rebound out over dips and bumps, too.
500 pound tongue weight which is a tad on the heavy side for 4800 pounds of trailer and car, front end isn't "light", handles fine.
BUT I'm talking flat bed which is a totally different weight distribution just in itself and different center of gravity, different axle placement and so on. My truck loses the rake, but isn't ever spooky handling.

Boats, car haulers, all very different than campers, even campers are hard to compare these days with the really cool new designs and technology. If I was young again........

 
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ShadowsPapa

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Rather than start another thread, what are you guys opinions on a wdh for one of these?
Jeep Gladiator Sway control 1650388652800


Its about 2K pounds dry, 3000k fully loaded, hitch weight is 325 or so fully loaded. I wasnt getting much squat on the gladiator with the clayton springs and it towed the 350 miles at 70 with no issues, but wondering if it would be worth spending the money on a wdh.
Single axle, looking at axle placement, trying to imagine other factors - I would, but I'm not there.
 

jsalbre

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Rather than start another thread, what are you guys opinions on a wdh for one of these?
Jeep Gladiator Sway control 1650388652800


Its about 2K pounds dry, 3000k fully loaded, hitch weight is 325 or so fully loaded. I wasnt getting much squat on the gladiator with the clayton springs and it towed the 350 miles at 70 with no issues, but wondering if it would be worth spending the money on a wdh.
Ignoring any sway control concerns, one of the biggest reasons for WDH is to get weight back on the front axle so you have steering control. Jeeps (and other sold axle vehicles) already tend to have slightly flighty steering so they can be greatly affected by reduced weight. When using a WDH Jeep specifies 100% front axle load restoration (meaning the height from ground to fender at the front should be the same as when unloaded), whereas most manufacturers specify 50%.

Personally I’d use WDH with that trailer, or any camping type trailer beyond the tiniest teardrop as loading and balance on them can be all over the place.
 

brianinca

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I doubt the tires are rated for 70 MPH, but I've towed single axle cargo trailers of that weight to San Diego with nothing but a brake controller hookup. That's up and down the Grapevine, 600+ miles roundtrip, for context.

That's a cool looking rig! I'd aim for 12% / 360 lb on the tongue, myself. If it has a rotating/360 deg hitch like other off-road trailers, a WDH isn't an option anyway.

Rather than start another thread, what are you guys opinions on a wdh for one of these?
Jeep Gladiator Sway control 1650388652800


Its about 2K pounds dry, 3000k fully loaded, hitch weight is 325 or so fully loaded. I wasnt getting much squat on the gladiator with the clayton springs and it towed the 350 miles at 70 with no issues, but wondering if it would be worth spending the money on a wdh.
 

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ShadowsPapa

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Trailer/RV towing speed limit in Florida is same as Iowa - 65 mph. 70 mph tire rating won't matter, I guess.
 

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Trailer/RV towing speed limit in Florida is same as Iowa - 65 mph. 70 mph tire rating won't matter, I guess.
Mapped out or myrtle trip and most of the states I have to hit are 55mph with trailer. Most don’t even think of the reduction in speed limits, I’ll be traveling in the 55 to 65 range the whole way.
 

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Just to add about how different trailers have different needs...
My 5,500lb boat on double axle trailer which does not have WD hitch or sway control (surge brakes, won't work right) tows great, but very tongue-heavy (600lb). Our small (3,200lbs) TT also very tongue-heavy (450lbs) requires sway control and load distribution because it bobs and swerves around on a single axle.
Reading threads now for setup info on my new TT that will be around 6,000lbs loaded most trips. GVWR is actually 6,990 if we over-pack (!). Tongue weight 600-700lbs. Personally, I feel like that max weight would be hella-sketchy trying to merge onto a highway. 0-55 times in the "eventually" range. Hills at altitude? Something above 0mph, Maybe... LOL

Is the boat trailer a lot longer wheelbase (distance between the hitch and the trailers wheels - I'm not sure if that is the correct term). than the TT? Boat trailers tend to tow well because they are very long for the weight. Longer trailers are more stable.

Boats are inherently back heavy. So the wheels need to be much farther to the rear to get reasonable tongue weight. This helps them tow better.
 

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Mapped out or myrtle trip and most of the states I have to hit are 55mph with trailer. Most don’t even think of the reduction in speed limits, I’ll be traveling in the 55 to 65 range the whole way.
True, some states are 55 - CA, is among them, as is Alaska but I can't imagine towing anything on a few of their roads at higher than 35.
 

RiverMtnBeach

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Is the boat trailer a lot longer wheelbase (distance between the hitch and the trailers wheels - I'm not sure if that is the correct term).
"Pin to axle" I think is the term. Yes. A lot further back. Boat is a twin engine, so only a couple feet from rear axle to end of trailer. TT's tend to be balanced over a center point slightly tipping to the front (10% or so). I think our new TT has almost 8 feet (!!!!!!) behind the axles. This will be interesting to maneuver! Sway control and brakes are a priority, for sure.
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