Toe in VS Toe Out

[Lunentucker]

I always read toe out is for front wheel drive and toe in was for rear wheel drive . I tend to think if it takes being toed out something is wrong on the jeep. Never had a vehicle that required toed out to correctly cure anything .

Post #1

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[Gizmo]

Of course I read the first post . Let me reword it if we need nit picking it . I have never seen or heard personally when toeing out on a 4x4 was the correct fix. Its like saying a worn out steering stabilizer causes death wobble . Most of us know installing a new one is a band aide not addressing what is actually wrong

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Of course I read the first post . Let me reword it if we need nit picking it . I have never seen or heard personally when toeing out on a 4x4 was the correct fix. Its like saying a worn out steering stabilizer causes death wobble . Most of us know installing a new one is a band aide not addressing what is actually wrong

You should never need toe out on a stock vehicle. The tendency is to toe out.
So you set a bit of toe in, and then when driving the tendency of the road forces against the tire want to pull it back. That takes out all possible play and sets tension on the steering linkage for faster response in steering.
If toe out is required, then things have been changed or modified, such as a big change to scrub radius, causing the tires to want to toe in.

 

[Lunentucker]

Slight toe is in spec
Slight toe out is in spec
Zero toe is in spec

Toe is super easy to adjust and try, with some basic common tools, common sense, and knowledge. You can use a tape measure, a laser, plates, angle iron, and maybe even a non-Home Depot 2x4.

Easy to try and easy to put on the road and see if it feels better, worse, or the same.
I settle at a slight toe out and it's been driving great, handling great, and tire wear is flawless.
I just had up to 80 on a winding unmarked country road, and it felt great.

As seems to be the case with most of these vehicles, what works for me may not for you. I'm guessing it's because of build variances from one truck off the line to the next.
Changes in geometry with lifts and offset, tires, pressures, and everything else all play into to the final solution.
And it's all free to try.

 

[Gizmo]

You should never need toe out on a stock vehicle. The tendency is to toe out.
So you set a bit of toe in, and then when driving the tendency of the road forces against the tire want to pull it back. That takes out all possible play and sets tension on the steering linkage for faster response in steering.
If toe out is required, then things have been changed or modified, such as a big change to scrub radius, causing the tires to want to toe in.

I thoroughly understand why toe in is used and the effect. Been doing this stuff since the 60s . I stand by what I said about toe out . I would not think a Mohave with 2" lift be considered modded enough to worry about scrub radius and toe out . I am betting on it being a band aide for another issue . I have had too many Jeeps to resort to toe out as a cure on that set up .

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I thoroughly understand why toe in is used and the effect. Been doing this stuff since the 60s . I stand by what I said about toe out . I would not think a Mohave with 2" lift be considered modded enough to worry about scrub radius and toe out . I am betting on it being a band aide for another issue . I have had too many Jeeps to resort to toe out as a cure on that set up .

Not disagreeing, and yeah, that's about when I started, too.............

tires large enough and wheels sticking out, you change things and the tires tend to toe in instead of out.
But with just a lift and moderately larger tires, no.



So people know what's being talked about -

 

[Lunentucker]

I know how he loves the Youtubes

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I know how he loves the Youtubes

LOL
There's only a few YT videos I like at all - most are music videos, others are by the likes of Tyson and a few others.

In too many cases:
Youtube = the anti-education

 

[Lunentucker]

LOL
There's only a few YT videos I like at all - most are music videos, others are by the likes of Tyson and a few others.

In too many cases:
Youtube = the anti-education

You're just not following the right people ?

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

For the steering wheel I've found it's easier on jack stands under the axle with the big tires. If not I end up turning it too much one way or the other due to the tire resistance/flex

^^ this plus Jscan to read the steering wheel angle ???

 

[ShadowsPapa]

^^ this plus Jscan to read the steering wheel angle ???

Exactly. JSCAN on a phone or tablet with you under the Jeep. I park with steering wheel off by same amount it's off while driving then adjust to turn steering wheel, not tires. Adjust until steering wheel is 0 degrees.

 

[Lunentucker]

Reviving:

I did a couple of minor changes recently, and my steering wheel center ended up slightly off again.
So while I was checking that I decided to once again give toe in another shot at redemption.
Toed in by .001 m at the highest points I could get with the digital tape (see pics in first post) , and we took a 90 mile round trip yesterday. Half of that trip was with 600 pounds of fertilizer in the bed, and half empty.

Immediately, I could sense the differences in the feel and the ride.
Winds were brisk, but not terrible. Maybe 7-8 mph, with 12 mph gusts.
Still, I could feel the winds trying to move me around on the highway, and I found myself applying much more steering input.
It tracked SLIGHTLY better with the load in the bed, which is to be expected.


Today I went back to .001 m toe out.
Same highway, but today the winds are 15-20 with gusts 30-35.
STEADY AS A ROCK.
No drift and minimal input.
In fact, when I came out of the garage and was going up the steps into the house, a gust hit me and I had to make a correction on the stairs. ?

Everything else is right and tight. I just did my torque checks not 100 miles ago.

Argue away, toe in proponents, but all I'm saying is this.
It costs nothing to try, and you may even like the results.

Queue the scientists ?

 

[JTGuy]

I have done complete steering replacements on my JT and JK. I set the toe myself with some angle aluminum and. a tape measure. It's perfect. No pull and tires wear flat. I go for 0 to 1/16 toe in. With my 37s I am probably close to 0.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Been all over this one for a long long time. No need for "science" that hasn't already been posted in several places before. It's fairly easily explained - at least with many non-stock vehicles.

 

[Lunentucker]

I have done complete steering replacements on my JT and JK. I set the toe myself with some angle aluminum and. a tape measure. It's perfect. No pull and tires wear flat. I go for 0 to 1/16 toe in. With my 37s I am probably close to 0.

Plates about as long as the wheels are wide?

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