Trouble shooting start stop

[Rocksalt]

dealers and service depts seem to be less about troubleshooting and more rely on simply replacing parts for better or worse. This forum is full of such examples

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[Mw0297]

High current fuse array (it's the fuse for EHPS, aux battery charging, electric engine cooling fan, and more)

IBS -
Red arrow is pointing to it -

Well I’ll be, I had no idea that was even there. I’ll check voltage when I get home Sunday. Then get an IBS. Thank you guys for y’all’s help. I’ll let you know what I find out

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well I’ll be, I had no idea that was even there. I’ll check voltage when I get home Sunday. Then get an IBS. Thank you guys for y’all’s help. I’ll let you know what I find out

Charge the batteries and while doing so, just disconnect the IBS and lay it to the side for a few minutes. Generally no need to replace it.
Put it all back together once the batteries are charged.

 

[SoK66]

When you replaced the batteries, were they fully charged prior to install?
I assume you had the IBS disconnected and set aside while doing the main battery - that will reset it.
With batteries fully charged, and IBS reset, things will relearn and normally are fine.





Why do they make goofy faces, then spend half the time of the video wasting time of the viewer. Get to the point of the video.........

But the OP says he's replaced that fuse -




What is the voltage as measured at the terminals of the main battery?

YES! I go nuts watching these videos and listening to the presenters jabber on endlessly, then doing their "like & subscribe" pitch, instead of getting to the point. Few are good videographers, or professional presenters, but they can have very valuable information to pass on. Youtubers, GET TO THE POINT!

 

[Great Offender]

IBS issue according to the paperwork?

Bought my JT used and never knew it had ESS because it was never explained and it never worked so I never knew I was missing it during the test drive. After 6 months I brought it in on a warranty claim for the defroster and made mention the ESS never works. They replaced the IBS 2 weeks ago and it still doesn't work.. Not missing it but I am being told by the dealer the issue is killing the aux battery(?). It has to go back because they didn't have the parts for the first defroster claim but now I have to tell them the ESS still doesn't work. ESS has NEVER worked and I hate it more than ever!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

IBS issue according to the paperwork?

Bought my JT used and never knew it had ESS because it was never explained and it never worked so I never knew I was missing it during the test drive. After 6 months I brought it in on a warranty claim for the defroster and made mention the ESS never works. They replaced the IBS 2 weeks ago and it still doesn't work.. Not missing it but I am being told by the dealer the issue is killing the aux battery(?). It has to go back because they didn't have the parts for the first defroster claim but now I have to tell them the ESS still doesn't work. ESS has NEVER worked and I hate it more than ever!

Some shops hire such dopes who have never bothered learning electrical systems - and have no experience.
Question for the masses - does any high school today even offer auto shop classes?
How many colleges offer degrees in automotive?
As far as ASE certifications - I've seen the tests.......... pretty simple, really, pure logic. Someone could get their certification and still not know what they are really doing - or more importantly, WHY or how things work. A cert doesn't mean experience. Granted, you have to get a job and work a while to have experience, but still............

So - was there a code for the IBS?
Did they use any tools to check the operation of the IBS?
I'll go ahead and answer - no to both.

After 6 months I brought it in on a warranty claim for the defroster and made mention the ESS never works. They replaced the IBS 2 weeks ago and it still doesn't work.. Not missing it but I am being told by the dealer the issue is killing the aux battery(?).

Huh? The defroster issue is killing the aux battery. OK, then when the defroster issue is resolved, since that issue also caused other damage, the battery and whatever else is going on should be replaced under warranty.

One example is - water pump bearing failed - fan hit hose and radiator, destroying both. Water pump was under warranty, the other damage was caused by the water pump so is also covered. (that was on a Jeep with a mechanical fan driven by the water pump)

My point is - if they claim the defroster is causing battery issues and the defroster issue is under warranty, then anything related to it as far as damage is also covered - collateral damage.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

YES! I go nuts watching these videos and listening to the presenters jabber on endlessly, then doing their "like & subscribe" pitch, instead of getting to the point. Few are good videographers, or professional presenters, but they can have very valuable information to pass on. Youtubers, GET TO THE POINT!

This is why I like Tyson's videos - he's "every man's explainer" - plain words, doesn't mess around, and isn't in it for clicks or $$.

When they spend 15 seconds explaining how great their videos are, please subscribe, click like, goofy loud annoying music, silly faces in the camera and it takes more than 30 seconds to actually get to their point - naw, annoying.
Real educational videos don't do that.
Another problem is that there are too many who sound like they know, have tons of followers and so on, entertain people, use words that sound great, explanations that sure sound good, they must know - and I get half way through and realize - they don't really know but sure sound good.
That's all why I skip most YT videos.

 

[Great Offender]

Some shops hire such dopes who have never bothered learning electrical systems - and have no experience.
Question for the masses - does any high school today even offer auto shop classes?
How many colleges offer degrees in automotive?

I'm going to say no to this. I loved shop and all things mechanical! Ultimately I pursued everything but that trade yet still love it.

There is a lot more to quote but I'll try and incorporate into one answer. I realize I my sentences were running on and confusing two different issues.

It got cold in S. TX so I turned on the defroster and it only blew hot on the drivers side so I brought it in for a warranty issue. I was told that hot air on one side and not the other was "impossible" but in the end I was told that a door was not opening correctly and they were going to replace the whole unit. Still waiting on parts.

On to the IBS - This really drove their tech nuts because they couldn't figure out why the ESS was never ready. A test of the Aux battery showed it at 25% and was not charging. The answer was to replace the IBS. Paperwork states that they got the aux battery up to 85% with their fix and ESS was working.

My experience: Forgot about ESS because it never worked so I was shocked when the JT trembled at the green light but I realized it never truly shut off. I experimented with the next 3 lights and it never worked. Took a long highway drive yesterday and it remained in a state of "not ready" so I will let them know when the parts for the defroster come in. During this time we got a rare rain shower and I realized the back window leaks. Oy vey!

If I missed explaining something let me know and I once again apologize for the weak initial post. I blame it on frustration.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'm going to say no to this. I loved shop and all things mechanical! Ultimately I pursued everything but that trade yet still love it.

There is a lot more to quote but I'll try and incorporate into one answer. I realize I my sentences were running on and confusing two different issues.

It got cold in S. TX so I turned on the defroster and it only blew hot on the drivers side so I brought it in for a warranty issue. I was told that hot air on one side and not the other was "impossible" but in the end I was told that a door was not opening correctly and they were going to replace the whole unit. Still waiting on parts.

On to the IBS - This really drove their tech nuts because they couldn't figure out why the ESS was never ready. A test of the Aux battery showed it at 25% and was not charging. The answer was to replace the IBS. Paperwork states that they got the aux battery up to 85% with their fix and ESS was working.

My experience: Forgot about ESS because it never worked so I was shocked when the JT trembled at the green light but I realized it never truly shut off. I experimented with the next 3 lights and it never worked. Took a long highway drive yesterday and it remained in a state of "not ready" so I will let them know when the parts for the defroster come in. During this time we got a rare rain shower and I realized the back window leaks. Oy vey!

If I missed explaining something let me know and I once again apologize for the weak initial post. I blame it on frustration.

There's a TSB out for defroster issues because on the assembly of the dash unit into the vehicle at the factory, the duct work "missed" and wasn't properly connected, blocking defrost action.
The IBS doesn't really handle the aux battery.......... I get that they were tossing stuff at it to see what sticks, but........ the aux battery is charged directly from the alternator through the high current fuse array, specifically the N3 leg of that fuse array. I could see where if there was resistance across the PCR contacts, it could prevent full charging of the aux battery because the charging current from the alternator goes through fuse N3, through the PCR and then to the aux positive post.
If the aux is low but the IBS says the main/crank battery is hot or fully charged then the aux doesn't get what it needs, so they need to both start out fully charged, and then hopefully over time stay equalized.
As FCA/STAR states, a new IBS should only ever be installed on fully charged batteries. I take that to mean both are fully charged. So ideally, they'd charge each battery fully, then install the IBS. The IBS only tracks amperage going into or coming out of the main battery.
The aux battery negative is connect to the top of the IBS, yes, but electrically, it's connected directly to the chassis/body/engine ground meaning loads can come and go for the aux battery and the IBS would not know it.

 

[Great Offender]

Good to know about the defroster! I never confused the issue of the defroster and the ESS. It was a trip to the dealer because of the defroster and I thought I would have them look at the ESS while it was there. Here is the final dealer invoice.

and while there is a second page there is nothing after "Test Drove and Start/Stop is ". Absolutely no mention of it. Second page only calculates tech hours. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Good to know about the defroster! I never confused the issue of the defroster and the ESS. It was a trip to the dealer because of the defroster and I thought I would have them look at the ESS while it was there. Here is the final dealer invoice.

and while there is a second page there is nothing after "Test Drove and Start/Stop is ". Absolutely no mention of it. Second page only calculates tech hours. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I laughed when I noticed the "found the cluster reads charging at all times".
That's really funny - looking at the cluster voltage - instead of analyzing the IBS directly, by reading it through their test equipment.
Even JSCAN can read the current flow through the IBS.

 

[tysongladiator]

Troubleshooting and diagnosing is where the dealers miss the point. I talk to @ShadowsPapa about the same thing all the time. And when he brings something up, he's on point. Like the IBS. The dealer overlooks that part because they don't diagnose. Most people don't either. The battery has become the initial go to replacement component for all electrical issues.

Also, when you ordered and replaced your fuse, you should have noticed that there are two different fuses. Make sure you replaced it with the correct fuse. Not saying it would cause a problem, but it could cause a problem.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

Good to know about the defroster! I never confused the issue of the defroster and the ESS. It was a trip to the dealer because of the defroster and I thought I would have them look at the ESS while it was there. Here is the final dealer invoice.

and while there is a second page there is nothing after "Test Drove and Start/Stop is ". Absolutely no mention of it. Second page only calculates tech hours. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I laughed when I noticed the "found the cluster reads charging at all times".
That's really funny - looking at the cluster voltage - instead of analyzing the IBS directly, by reading it through their test equipment.
Even JSCAN can read the current flow through the IBS.

Well I know what I’m playing with later…. Jscan- does it show %?

 

[tysongladiator]

Some shops hire such dopes who have never bothered learning electrical systems - and have no experience.
Question for the masses - does any high school today even offer auto shop classes?
How many colleges offer degrees in automotive?
As far as ASE certifications - I've seen the tests.......... pretty simple, really, pure logic. Someone could get their certification and still not know what they are really doing - or more importantly, WHY or how things work. A cert doesn't mean experience. Granted, you have to get a job and work a while to have experience, but still............

So - was there a code for the IBS?
Did they use any tools to check the operation of the IBS?
I'll go ahead and answer - no to both.



Huh? The defroster issue is killing the aux battery. OK, then when the defroster issue is resolved, since that issue also caused other damage, the battery and whatever else is going on should be replaced under warranty.

One example is - water pump bearing failed - fan hit hose and radiator, destroying both. Water pump was under warranty, the other damage was caused by the water pump so is also covered. (that was on a Jeep with a mechanical fan driven by the water pump)

My point is - if they claim the defroster is causing battery issues and the defroster issue is under warranty, then anything related to it as far as damage is also covered - collateral damage.

Auto shop, construction, etc. were some of the best classes in high school. Where you actually had to diagnose and repair cars that people actually drove and brought in for repair. Not test cars. Definitely need to bring those back.

When we hire our diesel mechanics, their knowledge gets tested. Our trucks can cost $1250k - $250k. We can't afford parts changers in our company.

 

[tysongladiator]

This is why I like Tyson's videos - he's "every man's explainer" - plain words, doesn't mess around, and isn't in it for clicks or $$.

When they spend 15 seconds explaining how great their videos are, please subscribe, click like, goofy loud annoying music, silly faces in the camera and it takes more than 30 seconds to actually get to their point - naw, annoying.
Real educational videos don't do that.
Another problem is that there are too many who sound like they know, have tons of followers and so on, entertain people, use words that sound great, explanations that sure sound good, they must know - and I get half way through and realize - they don't really know but sure sound good.
That's all why I skip most YT videos.

You know, when I first starting making videos, I used to talk a lot more. But usually I'm working on my vehicle at the same time, and all of that talking cuts into work time.?? And I realized that I don't like to listen to all of that either. A 30 minute video with only about 10 minutes worth of useful info.?‍

And I'm your basic guy. No fancy music (well... sometimes I get bored and make something up??), the info that I'm spreading is usually something I've personally learned or had to fix, and if anyone has noticed, I don't ask for likes or subscribes. I'm just here to spread helpful info and some offroading in between.

I don't consider myself an expert on anything. I keep my mind in a constant state of learning. I learn from experience and I learn from others. I've learned so much from @ShadowsPapa , I feel like I can rewire a CH-47 chinook now. Lol

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