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UPDATE: JL line shutdown, 7k JT Government Orders - Possible UAW Strike

RedTRex

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HMM... having worked for the Gov since 1987 including 20 yrs USN and currently Civil Service, I would have to take this news of a supposed 7000 trucks which must be built before all others as a crock-o-shit. We would know about this from other sources before the JL engine line did (no offense sir) as the purchasing rules for 1 require multiple bids (We have not seen any contract competitions), as well as 2 purchases/contracts of that size to be public notice(nothing posted). Furthermore, only in time of declared war can the Gov direct a manufacturer to build for them prior to general sales. (FCA would be bitching up a storm about lost profit)
 

Troybilt

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HMM... having worked for the Gov since 1987 including 20 yrs USN and currently Civil Service, I would have to take this news of a supposed 7000 trucks which must be built before all others as a crock-o-shit. We would know about this from other sources before the JL engine line did (no offense sir) as the purchasing rules for 1 require multiple bids (We have not seen any contract competitions), as well as 2 purchases/contracts of that size to be public notice(nothing posted). Furthermore, only in time of declared war can the Gov direct a manufacturer to build for them prior to general sales. (FCA would be bitching up a storm about lost profit)
Thank you for your service.

Thank you for your common sense.
 

Wildmed

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HMM... having worked for the Gov since 1987 including 20 yrs USN and currently Civil Service, I would have to take this news of a supposed 7000 trucks which must be built before all others as a crock-o-shit. We would know about this from other sources before the JL engine line did (no offense sir) as the purchasing rules for 1 require multiple bids (We have not seen any contract competitions), as well as 2 purchases/contracts of that size to be public notice(nothing posted). Furthermore, only in time of declared war can the Gov direct a manufacturer to build for them prior to general sales. (FCA would be bitching up a storm about lost profit)
Agreed. If true, this contract would be a major deviation from congressionally mandated procurement procedures. The idea that an untested vehicle would be purchased in bulk, manufactured BEFORE civilian orders were available, and done w/o significant leaks w/in the government/military community is ridiculous. Other brands want to compete for US business, there has to be a transparent bidding process. All of which would take place AFTER an announcement (made public) that said US Gov't agency was in need of a particular vehicle. Ordering a few F-250s is one thing; ordering >5k units of a brand-new model?? This just doesn't make sense.
(My perspective, 12y and counting AD USAF).
 

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Blown7

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HMM... having worked for the Gov since 1987 including 20 yrs USN and currently Civil Service, I would have to take this news of a supposed 7000 trucks which must be built before all others as a crock-o-shit. We would know about this from other sources before the JL engine line did (no offense sir) as the purchasing rules for 1 require multiple bids (We have not seen any contract competitions), as well as 2 purchases/contracts of that size to be public notice(nothing posted). Furthermore, only in time of declared war can the Gov direct a manufacturer to build for them prior to general sales. (FCA would be bitching up a storm about lost profit)
Maybe it was an executive order? Or Home Land Security??
Must be some part of Government that doesn't have to follow the procurement rules....
 

George D.

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Agreed. If true, this contract would be a major deviation from congressionally mandated procurement procedures. The idea that an untested vehicle would be purchased in bulk, manufactured BEFORE civilian orders were available, and done w/o significant leaks w/in the government/military community is ridiculous. Other brands want to compete for US business, there has to be a transparent bidding process. All of which would take place AFTER an announcement (made public) that said US Gov't agency was in need of a particular vehicle. Ordering a few F-250s is one thing; ordering >5k units of a brand-new model?? This just doesn't make sense.
(My perspective, 12y and counting AD USAF).
Not to mention that pricing has even been announced!
 

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Good point there. Makes ya wonder who signed off on that purchase without having even the slightest idea of what they would cost the taxpayers. That person should be fired, tarred and feathered and hung up on a flagpole in Washington,DC.
 

Lou3.6

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AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

$&@?!&@&%#^@$&@&?!!!!!!

This is just about enough news to make me give up!

:mad::crying:
I hear that . . . "Almost" ? TIME is of the essence (for me) as momma used to say a lot when we boys dawdled to long !
Still patient, as long as I don't become one (again) while waiting .
PLEASE FCA /JEEP, BE NICER THIS TIME TO YOUR EMPLOYEES . . . YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO COWTOW TO YOUR UBER-WEALTHY SHAREHOLDERS . . . DO YOU ? :swear: Gonna turn me right off and seek out another Company . . . after ALL these DECADES of Loyalty ! I may have to settle for something a bit less but the competition is growing and you need to take mind of that as well ! ? Keeping your Bread & Butter Folks (employees) "happy" goes a LONG way, far as . . . . ? I can attest to that, from other job experiences. Please Keep these - :jk: - on schedule . And yea we don't like it, but we unfortunately get it, that the Feds. have 1st dibs ! Why look a "gift horse" in the mouth and turn away, when you can use THIS as experience and training ! Work out all the kinks and bugs during this ~7000 JT run, then build US some "trouble free" JT's ! Works for me . . . as long as No Strike ensues ! :lipssealed: ?
 

Troybilt

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Apparently my post disagreeing with the OP was deleted. My post was not the only post on this thread deleted. Perhaps we have an Oliver Darcy situation.

So OP did you contact the moderators or did the moderators just suddenly decide to start censoring post that disagreed with unconfirmed speculations on government orders that where off by 53'000 orders to begin with?

#hotfudge
 

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The JL shutdown to retool for the hybrid engine has been moved up. We will now be shutdown April 18th to May 13th. (subject to change). We are working 7 days a week until then.

The Government order for just over 7k JT's has been verified. These 7k units must be built before any can be sold to public consumers. JT is going to go on a critical launch mandatory 7 days a week for up to 3 months if needed to complete orders. No announcement on when the launch will start. Rumor is 2-3 weeks.

Some of you know that this is the last year of our contract. If you have heard anything that happened during the last contract then you know there was a lot of corruption with both FCA and UAW. Some people have went to prison and some are still being investigated. There is a lot more to it but to much to explain. UAW has increased the strike fund and we all have been told to put some extra money away because it's very likely that we will be striking. Negotiations don't start until end of summer. I personally hope that we don't strike but we are not going to let FCA continue taking things away from us.
I fully understand and I support you guys doing whatever you need to do to secure a good contract and benefits to have a decent living with dignity for you and your family. You guys make great products already and a big reason why I'm buying a Gladiator is because it is the only truck with a manual transmission that is built by union workers.

The FCA folks in their ivory tower will be fine no matter what. You guys need to look out for yourselves so you guys can continue to build awesome Jeeps for us in the future.
 

Troybilt

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Sorry to remove comments, but let's please keep the discussion focused on the Gladiator and not on labor unions (though we appreciate what you do @JL-Engineline). Thanks!
I fully understand and I support you guys doing whatever you need to do to secure a good contract and benefits to have a decent living with dignity for you and your family. You guys make great products already and a big reason why I'm buying a Gladiator is because it is the only truck with a manual transmission that is built by union workers.

The FCA folks in their ivory tower will be fine no matter what. You guys need to look out for yourselves so you guys can continue to build awesome Jeeps for us in the future.
So jay should this be deleted also?

#hotfudge
 

nate320

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Maybe it was an executive order? Or Home Land Security??
Must be some part of Government that doesn't have to follow the procurement rules....
Surprisingly, we actually have established rules that allow us to do procurement actions like this already. Not to stir the pot too much, since this scenario doesn’t match up with what I'll explain later (7,000 JTs at ~$30,000), but there are many sole source contracts that can occur without bids, and are a lot more common than you might think. Most contracts do get put out for bid, but that is all driven by requirements gathering due to a capability gap or urgent need. For instance, if I want to buy a bunch of computers that are the same model, I can either solicit a bid or sometimes even use a contract vehicle that gives me a price that’s already been negotiated between the manufacturer and the government. If instead I have a list of requirements for what I want my computer to do (shall have this much RAM, HDD capacity, blah blah blah), it may hit the streets on FedBiz, a specific Request for Proposal to 3+ vendors of my choosing, or if it’s something special, it may go out via R&D channels from the Rapid Innovation Fund to select from a single or multiple sources. The most common and accepted justification of sole source is that the product or service is “unique and innovative”; The Fed. Acquisition Regulations defines that term in Part 2, as well as governs/describes the process for “other than full and open competition” (sole source). Feel free to hit up FAR subpart 6.3 for more info on that—only the third time in my career that I’ve encouraged anyone to read the FAR in their free time.

All of that to say, if someone in the government wrote the requirements specific enough in order to satisfy the need they’ve identified (must tow at least 7,XXXlbs, must have a curb weight of less than XXXX, shall have an approach angle greater than Xº, etc.), its not beyond the realm of possibility to justify sole sourcing the contract if their justification documents show that the supply (product) or service can only be provided by one source, and no other source could satisfy the requirements. Basically, I have a capability gap and the product I want must meet these requirements; lo and behold the JT meets the requirements and no other product suits my needs and no other manufacturer can/will produce something like it, therefore the JT is my answer and I must do business with Jeep/FCA if I want to get it.

Now, for the disclaimer part: usually the contract ceiling for a sole source to manufacture a product/item is generally $6.5M :lipssealed:. They have been awarded for upwards of $80M, though, with certain approvals and processes. There’s also some trickery in terms of “base years” and “option years”—the total sole source contract value could be $75M, but the base year (first year) is $15M, with four additional $15M option years available for execution.

But this government order of JTs would be at least $200M, and that’s after a decently negotiated price (I see 7K units @ ~$30K per unit as a decent base model price). Along the same lines of pricing, just because we don’t know what the price is, does not mean FCA didn’t do NDA’s with/for the government in order to enter negotiations, both leaving the room with an agreed upon price per unit that cannot be disclosed by FCA until a certain date, after a contract milestone, or ever.

However, I’m speculating that this order either isn’t happening, or is much smaller than 7k units. Not because of the sole source thing, but the only money that’s floating around right now is mid year money. This is when all of the decent sized programs are being reviewed and having money either taken away, given to them, or re-appropriated to their respective agency for use elsewhere during FY19 based on unfunded priorities. Again, that’s an unlikely scenario as well. If the agency that allegedly made this order wanted to ever see their JTs, they would have more than likely had to program this kind of money back in FY16 or 17 to maybe see it in FY19; and that's if the capability gap was already identified 3+ years ago. To give you an idea of funding timelines, my program’s FY20 request for $77M was officially submitted on the 12th of this month (OCO funding, but still). Requests for FY21 are already being internally rack and stacked within the DoD. Money for Jeeps usually doesn't fall out of the sky...

Now, I’m not calling JL-Engineline a liar or disagreeing with the folks that are concerned about it happening, just pointing out how a sole source to FCA might work (and that contrary to popular belief, sole source awards happen frequently, are perfectly legal, but usually don't occur on the ground levels of the military/government, leading to the misconception that everything must be competed or can't be bought without showing you got your 3 bids on a couple of TVs & printers that you want to buy with end of year Squadron funds). If there’s anything I’ve learned in the DoD, its that most things are ambiguous, and there’s a waiver authority for almost everything if the right person is pushing for it. If it is actually happening, its going to happen and I’ll gladly eat my words.

I should be up at the Pentagon next week and will listen extra close in the food court to see if I hear anyone talking about a sweet Gladiator contract award they pulled off ;)

My source: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...mq-9-reaper-drone-force-in-new-budget-request :like:
 
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