What to buy Mojave or Rubicon?

[Gray_Bison]

I believe the point of a payload rating is that it can handle that and function as intended. There is nothing in the manual on my Rubicon that says you have to reduce weight off-road, or that the payload rating is a static rating. I don't anticipate the mojave is any different - that's why they have gross axle weights so you don't overload a single axle.

I suppose I see the rating as a, here's what you can pull/haul to the trail...trailers, dirt bikes, side by side, boat ect. Not so much as a load it up and do a wash road in 4L at 45 MPH. It may be able to handle it, but I've yet to hear or read anything that suggest that's the case, and that goes across the board for all the Gladiator models and their payload/tow limits and function design of the Jeep.

Either way I do believe we are at a point of agree to disagree, to an extent.

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[Jeepers!]

I'm not sure we can separate "suspension system" and "purpose" here. One begets the other. I'm sure the front suspension can handle the weight, but it is going to increase how hard and how fast the front end tries to bottom out. They opted not to add the steel bumper and raised the front end up 1" to give it more dampening. I'm just guessing that 400lbs might not be the best thing to add to it.

Mojave doesn't get the diesel. And yeah, no steel bumper to prevent bottoming out while jumping in the desert. Not sure how many people buying a Mojave are going to be doing that.

Are the front shocks already available from them? Do you know the part number?

Yeah, I think TTEChris here has them on his Gladiator. I believe this is them: https://www.ridefox.com/product.php...p&model=Gladiator+JT&year=2020&position=Front

 

[Bobzdar]

Mojave doesn't get the diesel. And yeah, no steel bumper to prevent bottoming out while jumping in the desert. Not sure how many people buying a Mojave are going to be doing that.

Yeah, I think TTEChris here has them on his Gladiator. I believe this is them: https://www.ridefox.com/product.php...p&model=Gladiator+JT&year=2020&position=Front

Those are adjustable, I didn't think the Mojave had adjustable shocks.

 

[Jeepers!]

Those are adjustable, I didn't think the Mojave had adjustable shocks.

Hmm then I don't know.

edit: Briefly looking at the Fox site it seems like adjustability is an option?

 

[Etoimos]

Mojave doesn't get the diesel. And yeah, no steel bumper to prevent bottoming out while jumping in the desert. Not sure how many people buying a Mojave are going to be doing that.

My comment was about the OP saying he might get the diesel JTR and then upgrade it to the Mojave suspension.

And I agree that most Mojave owners will not be doing a lot of jumping in it. I foresee it being like the Raptor and spending most of its time driving back and forth to work and out to eat. lol

Yeah, I think TTEChris here has them on his Gladiator. I believe this is them: https://www.ridefox.com/product.php...p&model=Gladiator+JT&year=2020&position=Front

I'm not sure those are the stock ones either. We'll probably have to wait until the Mojave comes out and pull the part number off a dealer lot to figure it out.

 

[Etoimos]

I suppose It was a lack of clarification on my part. While yes the center of gravity would be higher and not optimal for the high speed performance aspect of the Mojave, even if it's and extra 200 lbs, you also have to consider in the gear that goes with overlanding. everything that goes into the bed that adds significant weight. Now if your just packing an RTT some water, fuel, and MREs then sure your at a minimum weight addition.

The difference I see in overlanding a Rubicon VS a Mojave is the speed. RTT add a higher center of gravity, easier to control in a slower off road environment then a fast paced off road environment.and if it's a bed top tent(?) then your adding that much extra weight to the rear with no compensation up front. At that point, just because it's rated at 1200lbs payload, does not mean you can use it for it's intended purpose at that weight, unless I've missed a statement that says otherwise. Would you tow a 65000lbs TT through a 4L traiI cause you have a Max Tow? I get you have to drive to get where your going, via highway and service roads, any jeep can do that. I'm talking about the intended purpose for the specific model. I've seen Rubicons function as a Rubicon w/a RTT just fine. Now going full send in a Mojave w/a RTT ? Maybe i'm wrong and i'm over thinking this whole thing. Thats why i started out my original comment with I Question.

Sorry for the hijack OP!

I think we are just trying to answer your question as to why one would use the Mojave as an overland platform. Just because it is designed and marketed as a high speed desert racer does not mean the mast majority of its equipment can not be just as good for a different purpose.

 

[Jeepers!]

My comment was about the OP saying he might get the diesel JTR and then upgrade it to the Mojave suspension.

Ah, gotcha! My mistake.

And I agree that most Mojave owners will not be doing a lot of jumping in it. I foresee it being like the Raptor and spending most of its time driving back and forth to work and out to eat. lol

Exactly.

I'm not sure those are the stock ones either. We'll probably have to wait until the Mojave comes out and pull the part number off a dealer lot to figure it out.

Yeah, I'm not sure either but that's the closest I could find. We'll all figure it out together.

 

[steffen707]

i just found this thread and sorry, found a bunch to quote.

In this article, Jeep Gladiator Brand Manager Brandon Girmus said the Mojave is just as trail capable as the Rubicon:
"You'd want a Desert Rated Jeep for the desert, but this can do phenomenally well on a trail too. It can still do the Rubicon [Trail], it can still manage 30 inches of water fording. It's gonna be very off-road capable in pretty much any trail situation."

I was thinking the same thing. Is it going to be very capable in most trail situations and only fail at the most difficult technical situations that the rubicon with front diff lock and sway bar disconnects excel?

The Mojave will not be as good for rock crawling, specifically, as the Rubicon. It'll be every bit as capable as every other Gladiator and that means it'll do fine in 90% of the offroading most people would do. You have the rear locker which some (including myself) would argue is all you need for most offroading even rock crawling.

That's what i'm wondering for my needs. I went and had a blast with no lockers at Jeep Camp, sure it wasn't the Rubicon Trail.

I'm not saying you're wrong but FWIW he's an engineer who's been rebuilding Jeeps since he was a teenager

I stated I didn’t want to go hard core rock crawling, but want a rig ready for anything I put at it.

like a do it all Gladiator! =)

I think the Mojave has the potential to be a good base to build an overland vehicle out of. Overlanding has more in common with fast desert driving then slow rock crawling does. Most of my overland driving has consisted of lots of highway (getting to the area I'm going to explore), lots of logging/fire/dirt roads, lots and lots of washboard roads, and a few sections of technical stuff. The Mojave's stock suspension sounds like (since we don't have any real specks on it) it will handle all of those conditions nicely at any speed and especially bombing down dirt roads at higher speeds.

Throwing a RTT up high will affect how fast you can take dunes and sharp turns due to the higher center of gravity, but that is not the goal in overlanding. The Mojave is rated at 1200lbs in stock form, so I don't foresee adding a RTT requiring a beefed up suspension to account for the ~200lbs in extra weight.

I guess my point is that just because you will not be driving the Mojave at high speeds, that does not negate it working well for an overland rig. And saying that you would not be using it for its designed element would be technically correct, but then we'd have to say the same thing about overlanding in a Rubicon.

What I do find really intriguing about the release of the Mojave and the High Altitude editions is the direction that Jeep is going in. In the reveal presser at Chicago, Jim said that they are building and offering the versions that we have been asking for. So it is quite possible we will see a true overland version in the not too distant future. With Jeep releasing all the different trim levels, it seems to me that they are trying to build excitement and momentum to help push them through the upcoming Bronco release. Hopefully we see more hardware focused editions released in the future.

This post touched on lots i've been thinking. a fast desert runner should handle crappy dirt roads really well, right? I guess there are different variations of overlanding, but i think my kind would take me down what you pointed out, "highway (getting to the area I'm going to explore), lots of logging/fire/dirt roads, lots and lots of washboard roads, and a few sections of technical stuff. More on this in a few quotes...

I don't think there is one size fits all OP. Jeep had a Moab edition. I don't know if it is still available or not. Mojave may be a special edition to capture a segment of the market. Who knows how long it will be around, but I would surmise the Rubicon is here to stay.

Don't want to see you get paralysis by analysis.

We call that analysis paralysis at work. Funny to see another use that.

While its pie in the sky to think one size can fit all in the off-roading world, I have to figure out what will create the most size for ....least?

Yeah, I think TTEChris here has them on his Gladiator. I believe this is them: https://www.ridefox.com/product.php...p&model=Gladiator+JT&year=2020&position=Front

@TTEChris , is this right, you got the Mojave shocks on your build?

And I agree that most Mojave owners will not be doing a lot of jumping in it. I foresee it being like the Raptor and spending most of its time driving back and forth to work and out to eat.

I'm not sure those are the stock ones either. We'll probably have to wait until the Mojave comes out and pull the part number off a dealer lot to figure it out.

lol
HA HA, or most Rubicons that don't ever climb rock faces? How many Yamaha R1 owners have raced their bikes on a track? I'm with ya, people (MYSELF INCLUDED) like to know their vehicle COULD do something, they probably won't do.

So in thinking about myself and reflecting on @Etoimos 's various posts, I can't wait for Jeep to make a true Overlander model! =) The swiss army JT to be a jack of all trades, master of none model.

Rubicon = leans towards rock crawling
Mojave = leans towards desert speed
Overland = leans towards urban mall crawling/boat hauling.

Maybe I just want a Rubicon with front and rear lockers and electric sway bar disconnect, but with the 2.72 transfer case, Mojave like washboard suspension prowess, that can haul a bit of gear for overlanding.......without need to do large jumps at speed.

Are the last 3 things possible to have simultaneously?

 

[Bobzdar]

i just found this thread and sorry, found a bunch to quote.

I was thinking the same thing. Is it going to be very capable in most trail situations and only fail at the most difficult technical situations that the rubicon with front diff lock and sway bar disconnects excel?


That's what i'm wondering for my needs. I went and had a blast with no lockers at Jeep Camp, sure it wasn't the Rubicon Trail.




like a do it all Gladiator! =)



This post touched on lots i've been thinking. a fast desert runner should handle crappy dirt roads really well, right? I guess there are different variations of overlanding, but i think my kind would take me down what you pointed out, "highway (getting to the area I'm going to explore), lots of logging/fire/dirt roads, lots and lots of washboard roads, and a few sections of technical stuff. More on this in a few quotes...


We call that analysis paralysis at work. Funny to see another use that.

While its pie in the sky to think one size can fit all in the off-roading world, I have to figure out what will create the most size for ....least?


@TTEChris , is this right, you got the Mojave shocks on your build?


lol
HA HA, or most Rubicons that don't ever climb rock faces? How many Yamaha R1 owners have raced their bikes on a track? I'm with ya, people (MYSELF INCLUDED) like to know their vehicle COULD do something, they probably won't do.

So in thinking about myself and reflecting on @Etoimos 's various posts, I can't wait for Jeep to make a true Overlander model! =) The swiss army JT to be a jack of all trades, master of none model.

Rubicon = leans towards rock crawling
Mojave = leans towards desert speed
Overland = leans towards urban mall crawling/boat hauling.

Maybe I just want a Rubicon with front and rear lockers and electric sway bar disconnect, but with the 2.72 transfer case, Mojave like washboard suspension prowess, that can haul a bit of gear for overlanding.......without need to do large jumps at speed.

Are the last 3 things possible to have simultaneously?

Not really - at least not stock. I will say the Rubicon is quite good on washboard roads, but too softly damped on road - I think the shocks are setup more for washboard stuff than anything else. I think a Rubi with adjustable shocks ticks most of your boxes except the higher range 4 low, but I'm not sure why you'd want that. At 1200lbs payload both will be fine for overlanding as you won't really be needing any of that for off road equipment unlike a max tow where you'll use up most of that payload difference getting it outfitted before you even start adding your overland gear.

 

[Flexin]

Agree, adjustable shocks would be sweet, but we would yank those off too lol.

 

[TTEChris]

i just found this thread and sorry, found a bunch to quote.

@TTEChris , is this right, you got the Mojave shocks on your build?

I have the 2.5" Factory race series up front for 4.5-6" lifts. I'm still waiting on fox to release the rears.

After putting a set of a customers JLU months ago I was immediately sold. At the softest settings they are actually soft unlike the adjustable kings/falcon shocks I've tried. Crank them up a few clicks and you can immediately feel the difference.

 

[steffen707]

Not really - at least not stock. I will say the Rubicon is quite good on washboard roads, but too softly damped on road - I think the shocks are setup more for washboard stuff than anything else. I think a Rubi with adjustable shocks ticks most of your boxes except the higher range 4 low, but I'm not sure why you'd want that. At 1200lbs payload both will be fine for overlanding as you won't really be needing any of that for off road equipment unlike a max tow where you'll use up most of that payload difference getting it outfitted before you even start adding your overland gear.

One thing Id like to know, what are the pros /cons of driving at 30mph in 4lo on a rubicon VS 30mph in 4HI on a rubicon.

So if you go with a 2.72 transfer case over the Rubicons 4.1, you're giving up more torque multiplying at lower speeds FOR a wider range of speeds you can use 4lo,right? And maybe more importantly the rpm band you're using is wider..... Sure a rubicon can do 50mph in 4lo, but at 7000rpm?

I think you're right, if I'm not bombing around dunes all day, I probably don't need the upgraded knuckles or beefed up frame, and the front locker and swaybar disconnect may come in handy on some overlanding or trail riding.

And it's easier to install new suspension stuff than outfit a Mojave with a locker and retro the elect swaybar disconnect to it.

Now I just need to buy one of both, compare for 3 months then give away the one that sucks....... Jk I know they'll both be wonderful and I'm not a millionaire.

 

[Bobzdar]

One thing Id like to know, what are the pros /cons of driving at 30mph in 4lo on a rubicon VS 30mph in 4HI on a rubicon.

So if you go with a 2.72 transfer case over the Rubicons 4.1, you're giving up more torque multiplying at lower speeds FOR a wider range of speeds you can use 4lo,right? And maybe more importantly the rpm band you're using is wider..... Sure a rubicon can do 50mph in 4lo, but at 7000rpm?

I think you're right, if I'm not bombing around dunes all day, I probably don't need the upgraded knuckles or beefed up frame, and the front locker and swaybar disconnect may come in handy on some overlanding or trail riding.

And it's easier to install new suspension stuff than outfit a Mojave with a locker and retro the elect swaybar disconnect to it.

Now I just need to buy one of both, compare for 3 months then give away the one that sucks....... Jk I know they'll both be wonderful and I'm not a millionaire.

30mph is usually my cutoff - if I'm doing over 30mph I figure I don't need the lockers or higher torque multiplication, so just run 4 hi. On trails where speeds are lower than that I leave it in 4 low. With the 2.72 t-case you could push that up to 40 or 50mph, but I really don't know why you'd want/need to do that. At those speeds you're well in the power band of the engine in 3rd gear in 4hi, so having a bunch of lower gears to use doesn't do you any good at all. The only time I'd think a locker would come in handy at those speeds is a slick hill climb or, as mentioned, sand dunes. Even then, it'd have to be a very specific type of hill climb, one where you need a running start but isn't so steep as to bottom out the suspension when you hit it.

 

[steffen707]

30mph is usually my cutoff - if I'm doing over 30mph I figure I don't need the lockers or higher torque multiplication, so just run 4 hi. On trails where speeds are lower than that I leave it in 4 low. With the 2.72 t-case you could push that up to 40 or 50mph, but I really don't know why you'd want/need to do that.

I read about somebody saying they got tired of having to stop and go from 4lo to 4hi in their 4.1 tcase rubicon over and over when following 2 other guys with 2.72 tcase that just left it in 4lo the whole time.

Wish i could find that again.....

 

[Bobzdar]

I read about somebody saying they got tired of having to stop and go from 4lo to 4hi in their 4.1 tcase rubicon over and over when following 2 other guys with 2.72 tcase that just left it in 4lo the whole time.

Wish i could find that again.....

Yeah, I get that but I haven't run into that too often - where a trail has high speed sections that also requires 4 low more than once or twice. Usually it's mostly one or the other, but I can see that being a concern out west, just not so much on the east coast where I've been. I usually don't need 4 low, but that's one of those things that when you need it and the lockers, you're really glad you have it.

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