Wheel & Tire Weight vs Towing Capacity

[kevman65]

You're wanting numbers that no one but the engineers at Jeep have.

Your load limits are figured with a specific tire and size, specific coil springs spring rate and height, specific shocks rebound and compression rates, Center of Gravity. Inside all of those are other variables, tire pressure, total payload, age of components, so on and so forth.

Now, you've modified your JT, so new springs, new shocks, new tires, new CoG and you want us, who don't have access to the original data to give you constants for a formula to figure what you have now and you being an engineer if you don't like the results you will change the formula to suit your argument.

Just go wheel the thing and take your discussion with you.

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[Wheelin98TJ]

We don't have someone here who is qualified to perform SAE J2807 testing? ?

 

[Minty JL]

I love everyone that buys a JT and wants to run it too the raged edge or beyond the capes of the vehicle. If your wanting to play Russian rullet ........do what your insurance and estate can handle/afford. Because when shit goes sideways because you wanted to take short cuts and gamble with your load(s)......you're screaming IDGAF and want to risk everything for personal gain. BUT when the shit hits the fan you will play victim. Your questioning here could even be used as discovery in legal actions or lawsuit. So you're on the hook already if you half ass shit. Sorry to be blunt, but that's the legal system. Been on both ends of the system, so you have been warned.

Bottomline, if you want to tow like a boss, buy the right rig. If not, make sure you have your financials in order. Very much the game of FAFO.

Respectfully - J

 

[asrricklin]

I just checked the sticker. My 2021 Rubicon gas auto has a gvwr of 6250. I'm going to guess the 2020 is exactly the same. You're already over by 290lbs.

So the answer is no. You cannot also tow a trailer. You have -290 lbs available for the tongue weight.

 

[Minty JL]

Addition is a Bish

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's no wonder that check registers have gone by the wayside, and credit card debt is at record highs. People rely on banks (really, the bank's web site) to tell them how much is in their account.
Math is dead. Long live math. The very universe can be broken down into mathematical equations.........
And then a few posts back someone had the gal to bring up a page from the book? How dare they!

 

[asrricklin]

It's no wonder that check registers have gone by the wayside, and credit card debt is at record highs. People rely on banks (really, the bank's web site) to tell them how much is in their account.
Math is dead. Long live math. The very universe can be broken down into mathematical equations.........
And then a few posts back someone had the gal to bring up a page from the book? How dare they!

Books are for suckers and the woke /s

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Books are for suckers and the woke /s

Then it's a wonder I can even read!

 

[asrricklin]

Then it's a wonder I can even read!

Good thing my VW beetle came with a video

 

[BennieD]

And here I am just hooking up and pulling camper down the road and it does fine! By the way, there are 3 kinds of people when it comes to math. Those that know it and those that don’t!

 

[PuddleJumper]

with all this info, I wonder how capacity increasing mods work then? Cus we consider bigger tires a loss in capacity as well as lift. But what about 1 ton axles? do those add more cus they are rated for more? what about the 1 ton brakes that come with those axles? what about a Hemi swap? what about a HP750 swap? I feel like technically speaking one could do certain mods and engineer capacity up instead of down. I saw a Glady on insta yesterday, after some basic math you could easily tell it was well over its GVWR in mods and the trailer is was pulling. I went all through his content and this guy left no stone unturned to make his truck capable. reinforced and braced the frame, 1 tons, V8+HD tranny, Big brakes, etc. the whole 9 yards. And logically we would all agree that from a simple skid test by looking at tire marks and whatnot that a state trooper would have him by the balls. As there is no way that beast could stop in the distance its supposed or perform in any other measurable metric to stock that one might bring up. Except we'd all be wrong. running his max expedition load he actually had a shorter braking distance than a stock rubicon. videos and all to prove it. So then what? its over its reported sticker, but handles better in every metric than stock. Should he be punished for out engineering Jeep? How do we handle these things? AUS has engineering for modded vehicles where they retest your truck and resticker accordingly. I wish we had that here. Cus i'm willing to bet there a few Gladiators that actually gained mechanical capacity instead of lost it.

 

[hepcat]

with all this info, I wonder how capacity increasing mods work then? Cus we consider bigger tires a loss in capacity as well as lift. But what about 1 ton axles? do those add more cus they are rated for more? what about the 1 ton brakes that come with those axles? what about a Hemi swap? what about a HP750 swap? I feel like technically speaking one could do certain mods and engineer capacity up instead of down.

In short, the limiting factors are those that remain stock; even if you swap out all of the drivetrain components for a hemi, beefier trans, and Dana 60 axles, and re-do the suspension to one-ton capacity, you still have a stock Gladiator frame. If you're going to do all that, as a practical matter doesn't it make more sense just to buy a one-ton truck with a Hemi, be done with it, and not have to worry about a frame failure?

Basically, you're dealing with something between a quarter-ton and half-ton truck that is pretty competent for most purposes, box stock. It's when you begin to purpose-modify it (like adding big tires and lifts for off-roading) that the towing capacity begins to suffer. That's why my Overland will remain box-stock. With the trailer I tow, I'm pushing the published numbers but the truck handles it with aplomb. If I wanted a bigger trailer I'd just have to get a bigger truck.

 

[PuddleJumper]

In short, the limiting factors are those that remain stock; even if you swap out all of the drivetrain components for a hemi, beefier trans, and Dana 60 axles, and re-do the suspension to one-ton capacity, you still have a stock Gladiator frame. If you're going to do all that, as a practical matter doesn't it make more sense just to buy a one-ton truck with a Hemi, be done with it, and not have to worry about a frame failure?

Basically, you're dealing with something between a quarter-ton and half-ton truck that is pretty competent for most purposes, box stock. It's when you begin to purpose-modify it (like adding big tires and lifts for off-roading) that the towing capacity begins to suffer. That's why my Overland will remain box-stock. With the trailer I tow, I'm pushing the published numbers but the truck handles it with aplomb. If I wanted a bigger trailer I'd just have to get a bigger truck.

I hear ya on the frame. But considering its boxed, you can get a deisel one and people make plate and brace kits for it, you can easily make it a frame that exceeds most stock 1/2 tons. I guess the only real drive here would be that you need a 1/2 to but you want a midsize or Jeep package. I personally stand on the side of you can make anything do anything if your committed enough. I wont be doing any of that with my Mojave, but I'm not gonna go get in my stock rubicon to tow my 20 ft NOBO if my Mojave has a Hemi swap. rubicon sticker may be higher, but 490ft-lbs of torque and we don't care that we are much closer to to the sticker max. big brake kit, a hemi and I know I'm better off. if that makes sense. I have no desire to roll around with a 12000 rig. In fact i want to make my Mojave as light as possible, i want 37s but sub 5500 lbs with no gear on it. I'll aluminum flatbed it most likely and a lot more. I'm just spit balling the idea of increasing capacity while still increasing weight.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

with all this info, I wonder how capacity increasing mods work then? Cus we consider bigger tires a loss in capacity as well as lift. But what about 1 ton axles? do those add more cus they are rated for more? what about the 1 ton brakes that come with those axles? what about a Hemi swap? what about a HP750 swap? I feel like technically speaking one could do certain mods and engineer capacity up instead of down. I saw a Glady on insta yesterday, after some basic math you could easily tell it was well over its GVWR in mods and the trailer is was pulling. I went all through his content and this guy left no stone unturned to make his truck capable. reinforced and braced the frame, 1 tons, V8+HD tranny, Big brakes, etc. the whole 9 yards. And logically we would all agree that from a simple skid test by looking at tire marks and whatnot that a state trooper would have him by the balls. As there is no way that beast could stop in the distance its supposed or perform in any other measurable metric to stock that one might bring up. Except we'd all be wrong. running his max expedition load he actually had a shorter braking distance than a stock rubicon. videos and all to prove it. So then what? its over its reported sticker, but handles better in every metric than stock. Should he be punished for out engineering Jeep? How do we handle these things? AUS has engineering for modded vehicles where they retest your truck and resticker accordingly. I wish we had that here. Cus i'm willing to bet there a few Gladiators that actually gained mechanical capacity instead of lost it.

Have you looked at SAE J2807, the tow testing standards? You have to pay to view on the the SAE website, but you can view excerpts and interpretations in many places.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Have you looked at SAE J2807, the tow testing standards? You have to pay to view on the the SAE website, but you can view excerpts and interpretations in many places.

no I have not. I'm assuming its got something very stringent to where you can only legally exist within very tight perimeters. I'll give it a peruse tho.

edit: i read it. So that was actually pretty interesting. Weird that they test on the lowest equipped truck. So if your vehicle performs and passes within that test parameters even if over sticker, then what?

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