Winches 101??

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

Can someone explain to me the differences between the 100s of winches available to choose from?

$$$$

Srsly, after checking reviews I got this 13000lb Zeak winch w synthetic line and wireless remote for less than 350. Been submerged several times, recovered myself twice, pulled numerous fallen trees off of trails and even recovered a fork lift which really put the gear to a challenge.

I don't get Warn cred at meet ups but that's okay because I don't do Jeep meetups.
But I do have the confidence to wheel solo knowing that I have a proven recovery device AND that I didn't have to spend real money on it. NTM, as many stories as I've heard of Warns failing in the field, I know those brand names are no magic wand.

Sponsored

 

[Elff]

^^^^
That's probably the best distinction. Lots of very good options out there. I've had Warn winches in the past, this time around I got a Quadratec Q-Performance Stealth Winch 10,000 lbs with Synthetic Rope
https://www.quadratec.com/p/quadratec/q-performance-stealth-winch/10000lb-synthetic-rope

I've used this a ton already and it's worked great. I especially like the wireless remote.

 

[azsndvl]

I just installed a Superwinch SX12SR on my 21 JT rubicon with steal bumper yesterday. $663 shipped on sale on www.jeepandtruckparts.com. They have limited supply though. Amazon is $866 total.. Same warranty as Warn. Comes with wireless and wired remote with built in led light. The winch itself has an led light as well but pretty useless when it’s tucked inside the bumper.. Got the Warn winch plate to hold it. Fit like a glove!

 

[Sandevino]

I’m all over the board on which winch to go with…. A quality steel cable is a requirement.

I like Warn but $800 - $1500 is a hefty buy in for something I’ll occasionally use. The Badlands ZXR is $350 and I’ve seen great reviews. The Badlands Apex is $600 and I can’t tell if it‘s $300 better.

‘You get what you pay for but they all look the same anymore.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yep, this is what I was looking at! Looks awesome. Any issues with install? You do it yourself?

Did the whole thing myself......... no real issues other than I pack a lot of stuff up there with the receiver sort of in the way.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I’ve read a lot of discussion on how to connect to battery? Are you running hot or do you have a switch to keep it off when you don’t need it?

I would never run a hot lead up to the bumper area.
I would only ever use a disconnect switch (manual) or a solenoid that disconnects the power to the front.

This was my 2020-

OR

This is my 2022 -

The snatch block doesn't inherently double the winch pulling power (normally called mechanical advantage since the winches actual power never changes),

There's some great videos on this - usually from Australians - on how this works. Yes, the winch's power never changes however, it's like a lever. You can't lift 500 pounds, but given a good enough lever, you could lift 500 pounds - yet your own power never changes.
You cut the speed in half.
You lose some through the inherent friction involved, but there's a lot of videos and articles actually measuring what can be pulled - using electronic scales.
The winch's rating is on the first layer of rope. A 1200 pound rated winch will only pull 1200 pounds on the first layer, and it drops a fair amount each layer after that. Hey, the motor never changed? What gives? The mechanical advantage changed. Same for using a snatch block.

One guy even pulled his rig out of a ditch sideways with a front mounted winch using snatch blocks and taking advantage of the increased pulling power of a snatch block. I've seen them pull themselves out backwards - using snatch blocks to increase the pulling power to the rear.
So if the winch's pulling power changes with the layers of rope on the spool - it can change using another version of mechanical advantage. And it does.

And if it didn't increase the power - then this guy would be incorrect as well -

 

[arosen1997]

The winch's rating is on the first layer of rope. A 1200 pound rated winch will only pull 1200 pounds on the first layer, and it drops a fair amount each layer after that. Hey, the motor never changed? What gives? The mechanical advantage changed.

This is true for pretty much every consumer winch on the market. Though some higher end Hydraulic winches will be pressure compensated and provide the same pulling strength on all wraps, (they're neat, I work with one) but I doubt anyone is going to do a PTO conversion on their JT.

Something to keep in mind is to ensure you have the manufacturer minimum recommended wraps on the drum when you're at the first layer for max pulling power, I've seen it vary from 5-10 depending on drum diameter and rope material. Else you can tear your rope off its mounting point on the drum.

Finally a good rule of thumb for adding mechanical advantage with snatch blocks is you'll lose about 10% of your expected gains to friction with your snatch block. For example a 10000lb winch with a single snatch block set up to pull as a 2:1 will realistically only do about 19000lbs instead of 20000. Really doesn't start to matter much with the 8-12k winches we put on our jeeps as most of the time there's really no need for a snatch block unless you're just changing your pulling angle.

 

[Jeepasaurus_Rex]

I would never run a hot lead up to the bumper area.
I would only ever use a disconnect switch (manual) or a solenoid that disconnects the power to the front.

This was my 2020-

OR

This is my 2022 -

There's some great videos on this - usually from Australians - on how this works. Yes, the winch's power never changes however, it's like a lever. You can't lift 500 pounds, but given a good enough lever, you could lift 500 pounds - yet your own power never changes.
You cut the speed in half.
You lose some through the inherent friction involved, but there's a lot of videos and articles actually measuring what can be pulled - using electronic scales.
The winch's rating is on the first layer of rope. A 1200 pound rated winch will only pull 1200 pounds on the first layer, and it drops a fair amount each layer after that. Hey, the motor never changed? What gives? The mechanical advantage changed. Same for using a snatch block.

One guy even pulled his rig out of a ditch sideways with a front mounted winch using snatch blocks and taking advantage of the increased pulling power of a snatch block. I've seen them pull themselves out backwards - using snatch blocks to increase the pulling power to the rear.
So if the winch's pulling power changes with the layers of rope on the spool - it can change using another version of mechanical advantage. And it does.

And if it didn't increase the power - then this guy would be incorrect as well -

Yes sir, absolutely correct!

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

The winch's rating is on the first layer of rope. A 1200 pound rated winch will only pull 1200 pounds on the first layer, and it drops a fair amount each layer after that.

there's really no need for a snatch block unless you're just changing your pulling angle

The more pulleys the more line out. The more line out the closer to advertised pulling strength and less strain (wear) on the winch.

 

[jcrogers87]

I would never run a hot lead up to the bumper area.
I would only ever use a disconnect switch (manual) or a solenoid that disconnects the power to the front.

This was my 2020-

OR

This is my 2022 -

There's some great videos on this - usually from Australians - on how this works. Yes, the winch's power never changes however, it's like a lever. You can't lift 500 pounds, but given a good enough lever, you could lift 500 pounds - yet your own power never changes.
You cut the speed in half.
You lose some through the inherent friction involved, but there's a lot of videos and articles actually measuring what can be pulled - using electronic scales.
The winch's rating is on the first layer of rope. A 1200 pound rated winch will only pull 1200 pounds on the first layer, and it drops a fair amount each layer after that. Hey, the motor never changed? What gives? The mechanical advantage changed. Same for using a snatch block.

One guy even pulled his rig out of a ditch sideways with a front mounted winch using snatch blocks and taking advantage of the increased pulling power of a snatch block. I've seen them pull themselves out backwards - using snatch blocks to increase the pulling power to the rear.
So if the winch's pulling power changes with the layers of rope on the spool - it can change using another version of mechanical advantage. And it does.

And if it didn't increase the power - then this guy would be incorrect as well -

Can you give us more details about that switch in your first picture? How is it mounted? Any troubles with opening up the hood when you need to use it?

 

[charliez]

I picked up the Badland 12k synthetic yesterday. I'll find a plate next week. I got a 25% off coupon and that really made it nice. Consider too what is included with the badlands. it is really a nice overall package. Cables, disconnect switch, a really nice hook and fairlead, a couple of rub sleeves if your pulling over something and stickers, you gotta have them. Maybe some other stuff.

 

[Gelo]

Hi all, I've seen this in the Costco website $489.99 for an X-Power 12k (Synthetic rope) winch.

https://www.costco.com/.product.4000060517.html

 

[Summitsearcher]

FYI……..just picked up this winch cover for my Apex Badlands 12k. Fits perfectly.

https://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-D...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583657835762854&psc=1

 

[Rusty PW]

This is true for pretty much every consumer winch on the market. Though some higher end Hydraulic winches will be pressure compensated and provide the same pulling strength on all wraps, (they're neat, I work with one) but I doubt anyone is going to do a PTO conversion on their JT.

Something to keep in mind is to ensure you have the manufacturer minimum recommended wraps on the drum when you're at the first layer for max pulling power, I've seen it vary from 5-10 depending on drum diameter and rope material. Else you can tear your rope off its mounting point on the drum.

Finally a good rule of thumb for adding mechanical advantage with snatch blocks is you'll lose about 10% of your expected gains to friction with your snatch block. For example a 10000lb winch with a single snatch block set up to pull as a 2:1 will realistically only do about 19000lbs instead of 20000. Really doesn't start to matter much with the 8-12k winches we put on our jeeps as most of the time there's really no need for a snatch block unless you're just changing your pulling angle.

Buddy of mine years ago had a Mile-Marker hydraulic winch on his F250. That thing was a beast. It ran off the power steering pump.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Something to keep in mind is to ensure you have the manufacturer minimum recommended wraps on the drum when you're at the first layer for max pulling power, I've seen it vary from 5-10 depending on drum diameter and rope material. Else you can tear your rope off its mounting point on the drum.

Great reminder!

Sponsored