What did you do TO your Gladiator today? [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS, NO GUN TALK]

[ShadowsPapa]

YT? Not sure what that references?

Poking the bear early this morning I see... Pretty sure you said yourself in some thread 6 months ago that the aux battery being bad can cause the main to go bad over time - and your previous gladiator had major charging/battery issues for a long time. But whatever that doest matter - aux, main - the point being one being bad or not charging fully/correctly can damage the other in time. Emphasis on can. Many people remove them because it is a possibility, others remove them because they just dont want a little aux, others remove them for the purpose of installing the Genesis system, others remove them because they just can.

I personally removed mine for 2 reasons - 1) install of the Genesis system, and 2) I hated the idea of that tiny aux battery and its complications and just wanted it gone. In hindsight knowing now that my summer plans changed as much as they did, I would have only gone with point 2, and not done point 1 - but didnt know at the time I would have opportunities for three 5 day trips this summer.

YT - youtube experts.

My 2020 JT issues were resolved with an IBS reset and independently charging the main and aux batteries. It operated just fine to the point I traded it - the only time it wasn't was when it sat a while, like a few days.

If the aux battery dies in such a way that it becomes a drain, it will pull down the main battery. On the flip side - when the main battery goes bad, it drains the aux battery.

I have this bit in my head where I catch tidbits about articles -for some reason, some things stick with me (drove my boss nuts in meetings as he'd swear he said X and I said no, you said Y and later we could prove it. I couldn't tell you the date of the meeting, or the exact number he might have quoted, but I could recall the gist of it, and be close on the numbers. So he hated me being in some meetings)
Anyway, I've caught info in 3 different Jeep forums over the past year or so and the trend is that it's pretty much as common for the main battery to go as it is the aux, and one doesn't necessarily kill the other. It MAY, but the instances of such have been grossly exaggerated by those "YOU MUST DO THIS NOW OR BE STRANDED" YT (youtube) professionals.
Again - we've seen JT and standard Wrangler people just as often have main battery issues where the aux was fine - and for those who said "it's the aux battery that kills the main battery" explain, please, how then the 4xe 12v battery goes bad after even as short as a month, commonly 1 to 2 years.
There's no aux batteries.
The fact of the matter is - Jeep supplies crap batteries in their vehicles. This means ALL of their Jeep vehicles. They are crap. Even the 4xe people have been saying this.
The batteries in Jeep vehicles may last as short as a month (I've seen a couple of those cases lately) or as long as 3 years, but the most common appears to be 2 years tops. You are one of the lucky ones if a Jeep battery lasts 3 years.
There are things to do to make them last -
Keep them charged up.
Do not let it sit 3 or 4 or more days without a tender, and then drive it only 30 minutes.
These will NOT charge an AGM battery to 90+ percent SoC in 30 minutes. So if your Jeep sits 2, 3, or more days and you drive it 30 minutes, then park it again - you are killing your own batteries.
the problem is mostly how they are driven - or NOT driven, how often/frequently, or for how long.
I'm finding that it takes a total of 60 minutes drive time to get them mostly full.
My case is one for a tender - it sits quite often up to 3 or 4 days at a time, then is driven for 30 or 40 minutes.
That's where the issue is and I admit it.
My 2022 has only seen the 13.x volt range a couple of times since last December. That means the batteries are not being charged. The times it did get into the 13s, I'd been driving it a lot that day. Off and on the drive time added up to a couple of hours or more. So it was approaching full charge.
Remember, you are charging 2 AGM batteries - you have to add the capacity of both batteries together and figure you are charging one big battery. That means a lot of amperage has to go in to offset the parasitic draw of sitting for days on end.

I am going to go ahead and put the charger on mine today after doing some voltage checks.

Genesis appears to have done some things right - 2 equal size batteries, monitoring the charge of both or each, not just one and allowing you to keep the factory systems all in place if you wish.

Remember - this wasn't invented by Jeep and Jeep isn't the only car maker to use this system. It was used by GM and several others (who knows why GM dropped it - hmmmmm) so don't blame Jeep - unless you are blaming them for their implementation of it, or their shitty batteries.
If the 4xe has 12v battery issues - you know it's the battery. And like the 3.6 powered Jeeps - that 12v battery only charges when you use the vehicle, so sitting a lot is going to lead to short battery life.
People seem to not get that part - it's a lot of capacity, an alternator isn't a battery charger, and sitting with batteries at low SoC will kill your battery capacity. it's really that simple.
Either drive it, or maintain that battery.

Sponsored

 

[Dim]

finally got everything to add this epic mod. one of the clever mods I did tbh ...

https://www.grimmoffroad.com/Jeep-W...arge-Port-Air-Chuck-Conversion-Kit_p_138.html

Installing the charge port air chuck from Grimm Offroad.

Super nice product . 99% perfectly plug and play ... I have to add 2 spacers behind to have a smooth open and close door.

The only mod I did is to paint the mopar part. wasn't sur to be super happy with all in full black then I just kept the door in OEM textured black .

this and the compressor bracket behind the fender is absolute nice.

Super happy with the result .

don't know if they follow the forum, but I would like to salute the amazing Grimm Offroad customer service.

PS: Don't kill me for the rusty bolts on the A Pillar brackets ... those fucking cheap amazon Chinese bolts doesn't like the salt used on our road. I changed it today for new one waiting to receive some nice anodized bolts (not from amazon this time )

 

[chorky]

YT - youtube experts.

My 2020 JT issues were resolved with an IBS reset and independently charging the main and aux batteries. It operated just fine to the point I traded it - the only time it wasn't was when it sat a while, like a few days.

If the aux battery dies in such a way that it becomes a drain, it will pull down the main battery. On the flip side - when the main battery goes bad, it drains the aux battery.

I have this bit in my head where I catch tidbits about articles -for some reason, some things stick with me (drove my boss nuts in meetings as he'd swear he said X and I said no, you said Y and later we could prove it. I couldn't tell you the date of the meeting, or the exact number he might have quoted, but I could recall the gist of it, and be close on the numbers. So he hated me being in some meetings)
Anyway, I've caught info in 3 different Jeep forums over the past year or so and the trend is that it's pretty much as common for the main battery to go as it is the aux, and one doesn't necessarily kill the other. It MAY, but the instances of such have been grossly exaggerated by those "YOU MUST DO THIS NOW OR BE STRANDED" YT (youtube) professionals.
Again - we've seen JT and standard Wrangler people just as often have main battery issues where the aux was fine - and for those who said "it's the aux battery that kills the main battery" explain, please, how then the 4xe 12v battery goes bad after even as short as a month, commonly 1 to 2 years.
There's no aux batteries.
The fact of the matter is - Jeep supplies crap batteries in their vehicles. This means ALL of their Jeep vehicles. They are crap. Even the 4xe people have been saying this.
The batteries in Jeep vehicles may last as short as a month (I've seen a couple of those cases lately) or as long as 3 years, but the most common appears to be 2 years tops. You are one of the lucky ones if a Jeep battery lasts 3 years.
There are things to do to make them last -
Keep them charged up.
Do not let it sit 3 or 4 or more days without a tender, and then drive it only 30 minutes.
These will NOT charge an AGM battery to 90+ percent SoC in 30 minutes. So if your Jeep sits 2, 3, or more days and you drive it 30 minutes, then park it again - you are killing your own batteries.
the problem is mostly how they are driven - or NOT driven, how often/frequently, or for how long.
I'm finding that it takes a total of 60 minutes drive time to get them mostly full.
My case is one for a tender - it sits quite often up to 3 or 4 days at a time, then is driven for 30 or 40 minutes.
That's where the issue is and I admit it.
My 2022 has only seen the 13.x volt range a couple of times since last December. That means the batteries are not being charged. The times it did get into the 13s, I'd been driving it a lot that day. Off and on the drive time added up to a couple of hours or more. So it was approaching full charge.
Remember, you are charging 2 AGM batteries - you have to add the capacity of both batteries together and figure you are charging one big battery. That means a lot of amperage has to go in to offset the parasitic draw of sitting for days on end.

I am going to go ahead and put the charger on mine today after doing some voltage checks.

Genesis appears to have done some things right - 2 equal size batteries, monitoring the charge of both or each, not just one and allowing you to keep the factory systems all in place if you wish.

Remember - this wasn't invented by Jeep and Jeep isn't the only car maker to use this system. It was used by GM and several others (who knows why GM dropped it - hmmmmm) so don't blame Jeep - unless you are blaming them for their implementation of it, or their shitty batteries.
If the 4xe has 12v battery issues - you know it's the battery. And like the 3.6 powered Jeeps - that 12v battery only charges when you use the vehicle, so sitting a lot is going to lead to short battery life.
People seem to not get that part - it's a lot of capacity, an alternator isn't a battery charger, and sitting with batteries at low SoC will kill your battery capacity. it's really that simple.
Either drive it, or maintain that battery.

Yeah I was not meaning to reference any of those other folks that indicate the aux battery is the only one liable to have problems. That's just a terrible argument. But I have seen a lot more people talking about the aux going bad than the main - however, the only other forum I am really on is jeepforum just for the TJ, so it's probably just a factor of restricted sample size.

I think battery tenders should be a given. Granted they are not, but they should be. I killed two AGM's on my TJ over a year and a half because of charge time not being remotely enough, and super cold temps in the -20's for 3-4 months. That was one of the first things I did to the JT was a CTEK battery charger/tender since it can easily sit for 2-3 weeks in the winter. Probably need to do the same to the TJ before next year. I am a perfect example of 'what not to do' in terms of making sure your AGM is charged. My 'commute' is literally 1 mile. I should walk, but being lazy and freezing temps with balance issues I prefer to drive. So the battery (and other things) in the TJ really are at a declining state since the drive is just so darn short. I purposefully don't do that to the JT knowing it's not great.

Agreed, genesis I think did a good job with their new system with the space constraints there are. But I do want to emphasize that it really is only great for one night trips, or trips where each day will see several hours of driving. The batteries being so small don't hold long. So anymore than a one nighteror long drives will require additional battery capacity.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

finally got everything to add this epic mod. one of the clever mods I did tbh ...

https://www.grimmoffroad.com/Jeep-W...arge-Port-Air-Chuck-Conversion-Kit_p_138.html

Installing the charge port air chuck from Grimm Offroad.

Super nice product . 99% perfectly plug and play ... I have to add 2 spacers behind to have a smooth open and close door.

The only mod I did is to paint the mopar part. wasn't sur to be super happy with all in full black then I just kept the door in OEM textured black .

this and the compressor bracket behind the fender is absolute nice.

Super happy with the result .

don't know if they follow the forum, but I would like to salute the amazing Grimm Offroad customer service.

PS: Don't kill me for the rusty bolts on the A Pillar brackets ... those fucking cheap amazon Chinese bolts doesn't like the salt used on our road. I changed it today for new one waiting to receive some nice anodized bolts (not from amazon this time )

I think that method of using the part - and making a convenient place to connect and operate a compressor is really neat, great idea, looks so factory.
But I wonder about the future - how will we 4xe owners do such a thing LOL.
MAYBE a company will make one for the right side so the compressor ports could be on the right and the charging port left on the left side.
I thought - this would be great for my JT - won't work for our Wrangler, though Bummer, because I think it's a perfect solution and looks so clean and factory.
Nice.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yeah I was not meaning to reference any of those other folks that indicate the aux battery is the only one liable to have problems. That's just a terrible argument. But I have seen a lot more people talking about the aux going bad than the main - however, the only other forum I am really on is jeepforum just for the TJ, so it's probably just a factor of restricted sample size.

I think battery tenders should be a given. Granted they are not, but they should be. I killed two AGM's on my TJ over a year and a half because of charge time not being remotely enough, and super cold temps in the -20's for 3-4 months. That was one of the first things I did to the JT was a CTEK battery charger/tender since it can easily sit for 2-3 weeks in the winter. Probably need to do the same to the TJ before next year. I am a perfect example of 'what not to do' in terms of making sure your AGM is charged. My 'commute' is literally 1 mile. I should walk, but being lazy and freezing temps with balance issues I prefer to drive. So the battery (and other things) in the TJ really are at a declining state since the drive is just so darn short. I purposefully don't do that to the JT knowing it's not great.

Agreed, genesis I think did a good job with their new system with the space constraints there are. But I do want to emphasize that it really is only great for one night trips, or trips where each day will see several hours of driving. The batteries being so small don't hold long. So anymore than a one nighteror long drives will require additional battery capacity.

Again, you are seeing novices and typically those who don't have much understand, but have a whole lot of hate (hate because people hate and fear what they don't "get". )
People love company and love to jump on a bandwagon. I've never been one to follow a crowd or jump on the "me-too" pile. Oh, sometimes I make that mistake and assume, but too often I learn and find the basis for their gripes are lack of understanding more than fact.
Anyway, yeah, you'll see a lot more people talking about that, but for the wrong reasons. Not because of facts. It's the INTERNET!! So and so is a dummy because I saw it on the internet. That drug can't work because I saw it on the internet. My boss used to call it the mis-information stupid highway. Anyone who once does something and it works now has it all figured out and is the go-to person because they put up a video of it.
So the visuals are skewed out there because of who and how things are posted.

Anyway - yeah, off that I hope, I'm thinking of a solar piece for the hood of my truck when I am at a car show where the truck sits for 2 days, and I pull power for charging things and running a 12v cooler (COOLER, not a fridge - and it only cools to 40 degrees below ambient, I think it draws 5 amps or something like that. Cheap Coleman unit but it works well enough for my needs)
Knowing these cheap-butt Jeep batteries and how things go, it may be worth the investment for a solar panel to lay on the hood when sitting and running a cooler and charging my phone and hearing aids.

You hit on battery capacity - capacity tends to drop with age, and the more they sit with less than a full charge, the more that capacity drops. So on most of our Jeeps if they aren't driven fairly regular and for periods over 30 minutes or so, the sit at 60 or 70% SoC (just for example) and over the months, the capacity dwindles down. Not talking ability to crank and start the Jeep - I see way too often "yeah it's fine because it cranks and starts". No, that's the sprint - the CCA. I'm talking amperage over time. Capacity. How long can it hold a load over time. That is reduced as it ages and even worse if not kept charged.

There's limited room under the hoods of our Jeeps, so I guess if you want more capacity, more depth, more amperage over time, you need to expand rearward with more battery, like many here have done - quite cleverly, I might add.
And if you think these are crowded under the hood - come check out our Wrangler. Man, I don't even want to imagine what it would be like working on that thing. Thank goodness for a decent warranty and dealer's shop.

Back on track -
What I get to do, but have not yet done it, it will be a what did you do soon enough -
I paid the dealership to fix my big bad boo-boo broken body bolt. I figured I screwed up badly, so I need to suffer the consequences, and pay so I won't do it again.
They spent a ton of time on it, as expected, 3.5 hours.
In the process they did what I knew they would need to do and pulled the left side power step out. There's no way in $#@% to get to that body bolt area with the step in the way, and you just plain can't put a new bolt in without pulling the step.
However - when I got the truck I noticed the gap between rocker panel area and step was larger than before. There was actually a gap where you could see down into the step area.
WTH? I got under the truck and sure enough - they had the rear body bolt step bracket installed wrong and had the bracket ABOVE the big fat large diameter washer and not between the bolt head and the washers. That pulled down on the rear of the step assembly pulling it away from the body due to the leverage there, the rocker area bolts being a fulcrum area. So I did the simple thing and put a stack of washers between that bracket and the power step itself, shifting the step downward on the inside, raising it a bit closer to the body up above. That spot was always a larger gap that it should be likely due to tolerances of the step and the body manufacturing processes.
So what I will have to do now is - remove the left power step away from the body so I can remove that rear step bracket, position it correctly on the body bolt between the head and the washer, and then put it all back again. It will involve all 3 body bolts on that side - loosening them again, removing all 8 or whatever rocker panel pinch weld area step bolt nuts and washers, pulling the step outward and resting it on milk crates and wood blocks, and putting that bracket where it belongs.
Naw, I'm not taking it back to the dealership.
They did me a big favor and cut the labor almost in half. I paid for 2 hours, not 3.5 hours labor. I can likely have the bracket put in the correct orientation in less time than to drive it over there and drive back again.

 

[chorky]

Are you saying you wouldn’t install the Genesis system again? Why not?

It is debatable. The short answer is.....eh...maybe not. But it totally depends.

I gotta run to mass, so I'll respond with some good pro/con's in a couple hours. So if you are on the fence just hold off a bit till there is some conversation. I may make a new thread just to discuss it and not clog this one.

 

[chorky]

@azmojave

Decided to make a new thread to not clog this one up.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/genesis-dual-battery-system-a-discussion.69204/

It probably won't offer the answer you were looking for, but hopefully will get you close to making the decision that works best for you.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

@azmojave

Decided to make a new thread to not clog this one up.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/genesis-dual-battery-system-a-discussion.69204/

It probably won't offer the answer you were looking for, but hopefully will get you close to making the decision that works best for you.

Will be an interesting read to see where your thinking went after the initial decisions.
May help others in a similar usage as yourself.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/d77fec21-c5d5-45b1-ad09-c24ff37e7179

 

[XraytecH]

Tracked down a clunk on the front driver side.

Cinched down the castle nuts on the upper and lower ball joint studs. Simply turned both nuts over one slot and inserted new cotter pins.

 

[BearFootSam]

Down at the beach, we were heading back to the parking area when I saw two blokes struggling with a boat and truck. The tide was coming in fast and caught them unawares, water up to front hubs and I could see they were stuck. One starts running for the parking lot, maybe cause it's the only place with some sort of cell signal.

I offered a winch which they jumped on and was able to get them out in a jiffy. The camera skews perspective so it's hard to tell but unless they had an especially long tow strap I would have had to put my wheels in the water to pull them out.

Easy peasy except they couldn't find their tow point. Bonus points - the better half is now convinced of the merit of the winch.

 

[Gren71]

Tracked down a clunk on the front driver side.

Cinched down the castle nuts on the upper and lower ball joint studs. Simply turned both nuts over one slot and inserted new cotter pins.

ive been slowly tracking down a clunk over the last week and looked at my ball joints. Aftet 90k im willing to believe they’re loose now or wearing down. BUT the castle nut and pin were still in place so I bypassed them. Perhaps worth just giving them a little extra turn?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

ive been slowly tracking down a clunk over the last week and looked at my ball joints. Aftet 90k im willing to believe they’re loose now or wearing down. BUT the castle nut and pin were still in place so I bypassed them. Perhaps worth just giving them a little extra turn?

I would at least pull the cotter pin out and check the torque on those castellated nuts.

(for those wondering about the word - it's how we ordered them at the hardware store - and later at the auto parts store. Adjective - descriptive: (of a nut or other mechanical part) having grooves or slots on its upper face.)

When these were found to be loose as in the TSB - the cotter pin would be in place, it's just that they weren't properly torqued before the pin was put in place. So don't let a great looking cotter pin fool ya. The pin will always be in place ok unless you really have severe issues, and then I'd question the hole where the ball joint "stem" goes in.

 

[Dim]

I think that method of using the part - and making a convenient place to connect and operate a compressor is really neat, great idea, looks so factory.
But I wonder about the future - how will we 4xe owners do such a thing LOL.
MAYBE a company will make one for the right side so the compressor ports could be on the right and the charging port left on the left side.
I thought - this would be great for my JT - won't work for our Wrangler, though Bummer, because I think it's a perfect solution and looks so clean and factory.
Nice.

I think ( but I never saw the hidden side of the 4XE with electric wires and plug) it’s possible to adapt this for a 4XE . With some tiny mods . A air coupling isn’t a big thing … what takes the biggest place is the switch . So I’m pretty sure it won’t be a problem to create a plate with the big hole for the charging plug and another tiny hole for the air connector …. I checked to right hand drive market and apparently they don’t even have 4XE line up … only available engine in UK is 2.0 and South Africa nothing about hybrid . I thought they could eventually have the plug in door on the other side … as well it could be nice to adapt but … nothing .
I guess the new inboard system present on the Rubicon 20th anniversary will be a valid option as soon as those parts are available on the market …

 

[XraytecH]

(for those wondering about the word - it's how we ordered them at the hardware store - and later at the auto parts store. Adjective - descriptive: (of a nut or other mechanical part) having grooves or slots on its upper face.

Fascinating... I always thought they were called castle nuts because the looked like tops of a castle's ramparts.

 

[XraytecH]

ive been slowly tracking down a clunk over the last week and looked at my ball joints. Aftet 90k im willing to believe they’re loose now or wearing down. BUT the castle nut and pin were still in place so I bypassed them. Perhaps worth just giving them a little extra turn?

Wouldn't hurt to turn them over one slot.

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