Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares resigns

[BourbonRunner]

Stellantis wouldn't have any trouble selling gas guzzlers if it offered fuel efficient models to offset those sales with. This is how Toyota, Honda, Ford, GM, Hyundai-Kia, VW, and other automakers do it.

But Stellantis killed all its affordable and efficient models, so it is now stuck with a bunch of high-priced, inefficient vehicles.

No. STLA allows greed to dictate its product strategy.

Because affordable, efficient models net them lower gross margins, they get rid of them.

I don't think you're entirely wrong but I do think you're conflating things.

It is well known STLA used the USDM's high profit sales to fund its activities elsewhere and keep the balance sheets looking better since the rest of the ship was listing heavily.

Both PSA and Fiat have a boatload of fuel efficient motors in the ROW. But getting them federalized would have cost more money than they were willing to invest in the USDM because the profits here would get knackered.

My suspicion is that is why Alfa and Fiat were never really given any effort after Sergio died. On those they could have been incredibly competitive.

Something from your other post:

The various diesel emissions scandals were entirely the result of the bureacracy's loopholes in the regs. Not saying VW, FCA were ethical or absolved from sin. The EPA's guidelines were for at idle emissions, not at speed/underway. Chicken and egg perhaps?

Sponsored

 

[aldo98229]

I don't think you're entirely wrong but I do think you're conflating things.

It is well known STLA used the USDM's high profit sales to fund its activities elsewhere and keep the balance sheets looking better since the rest of the ship was listing heavily.

Both PSA and Fiat have a boatload of fuel efficient motors in the ROW. But getting them federalized would have cost more money than they were willing to invest in the USDM because the profits here would get knackered.

My suspicion is that is why Alfa and Fiat were never really given any effort after Sergio died. On those they could have been incredibly competitive.

Something from your other post:

The various diesel emissions scandals were entirely the result of the bureacracy's loopholes in the regs. Not saying VW, FCA were ethical or absolved from sin. The EPA's guidelines were for at idle emissions, not at speed/underway. Chicken and egg perhaps?

Fiat is a non-starter in N.A. Fiat cannot really serve as the provider of affordable, fuel efficient models here.

There is no good reason for Dodge to not offer affordable, efficient and stylish models that compete against Honda, Toyota and Mazda, other than Dodge's market positioning being dictated by Europe's cartoonish view of the Dodge brand.

The way Dodge is being defined right now is a dead-end for the brand, and it doesn't help Stellantis meet CAFE standards.

We will see how things evolved with upcoming Dodge Charger; it looks hawt. But I'll bet it will be priced too high to have much impact on anything.

PS - CNBC just reported that Tim Kuniskis is being brought back to Stellantis to head Ram. Apparently, the main cause of the rift between Tavares and the Board was the mismanagement of N.A. Bringing Kuniskis back brings an element of continuity that is sorely missing in the Chrysler piece of the business, after so many departures under Tavares.

 

[BourbonRunner]

Fiat is a non-starter in N.A. Fiat cannot really serve as the provider of affordable, fuel efficient models here.

I think I should clarify:

Fiat and Alfa under Sergio were poised to make a strong return to the USDM. Alfa has/had a BMW-killer in the Giulia (and arguably one of the best looking sedans of the last 10 or so years), the Stelvio gave the X5 a run for its money in the styling and handling department, etc. When he died that momentum was abandoned and the quick PSA merger the following year ensured that it wouldn't happen.

With regards to the efficiency, small cars, etc: In that respect I meant Fiat as the parent company and not necessarily the brand if that makes sense? And in that vein, they have many vehicles that could have been brought here, sold as a Fiat, a Dodge, a Chrysler, etc with minimal federalizing cost.

They did it with the Ducato/Promaster quite effectively. To avoid the chicken tax they build it in Saltillo MX and since the R&D for the assembly line is already done, they just replicate it on site. It is just scaling at that point. They could do the same with the Rampage, too.

The bottom line I see is STLA under Tavares didn't want to invest more because that would come at the cost of profit, and that regular profit was the ONLY thing keeping him in the C-suite. It effectively covered his ass until it didn't. And once he was bare-assed, he gone.

There is no good reason for Dodge to not offer affordable, efficient and stylish models that compete against Honda, Toyota and Mazda, other than Dodge's market positioning being dictated by Europe's cartoonish view of the Dodge brand.

The way Dodge is being defined right now is a dead-end for the brand, and it doesn't help Stellantis meet CAFE standards.

We will see how things evolved with upcoming Dodge Charger; it looks hawt. But I'll bet it will be priced too high to have much impact on anything.

Dude, you are spot on. And what they've done to Chrysler is practically criminal. One vehicle-- a minivan!! - with the occasional glimpse of concept cars that (especially given the financial position) will never make it to market.

The PSA merger has shown they really don't have any idea what the USDM wants/needs and what works. They just saw a historically consistent profit and figured the gravy train would run forever.

PS - CNBC just reported that Tim Kuniskis is being brought back to Stellantis to head Ram. Apparently, the main cause of the rift between Tavares and the Board was the mismanagement of N.A. Bringing Kuniskis back brings an element of continuity that is sorely missing in the Chrysler piece of the business, after so many departures under Tavares.

We shall see, and I share your optimism. I want to see them do well and build a quality product.

I read an in depth article about Elkann and how he operates on behalf of the Agnellis recently and it seems that he can be highly effective if given the opportunity. He's the one that put Sergio in charge in the first place... and oversaw the PSA merger so only time will tell.

Great back and forth- thanks!

 

[legacy_etu]

Fiat is a non-starter in N.A. Fiat cannot really serve as the provider of affordable, fuel efficient models here.

There is no good reason for Dodge to not offer affordable, efficient and stylish models that compete against Honda, Toyota and Mazda, other than Dodge's market positioning being dictated by Europe's cartoonish view of the Dodge brand.

The way Dodge is being defined right now is a dead-end for the brand, and it doesn't help Stellantis meet CAFE standards.

We will see how things evolved with upcoming Dodge Charger; it looks hawt. But I'll bet it will be priced too high to have much impact on anything.

PS - CNBC just reported that Tim Kuniskis is being brought back to Stellantis to head Ram. Apparently, the main cause of the rift between Tavares and the Board was the mismanagement of N.A. Bringing Kuniskis back brings an element of continuity that is sorely missing in the Chrysler piece of the business, after so many departures under Tavares.

Speaking of the hawt Dodge Charger, did you see the first Charger ad? Pretty funny ........once you make it past the beginning. Unfortunately at the $60k and $73 k price points I feel like it's going to be DOA; the electric version that is.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Speaking of the hawt Dodge Charger, did you see the first Charger ad? Pretty funny ........once you make it past the beginning. Unfortunately at the $60k and $73 k price points I feel like it's going to be DOA; the electric version that is.

Wonder how often you have to change those muffler bearings?

 

[saintpauljeff]

another Tavares read, from CNBC today

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/10/ste...ost-control-of-the-automaker-sources-say.html

 

[BourbonRunner]

Wonder how often you have to change those muffler bearings?

I believe it is every time you flush the blinker fluid.

 

[WestwallNF104A]

I believe it is every time you flush the blinker fluid.

That stuffs expensive!

 

[BourbonRunner]

That stuffs expensive!

You're not kidding. Since 2020 it has tripled in price. It's almost as much as prop wash!

 

[WestwallNF104A]

You're not kidding. Since 2020 it has tripled in price. It's almost as much as prop wash!

Well prop wash doubled last year, so it will take a while to catch up!

 

[aldo98229]

More dirt on Tavares and Stellantis keeps coming out every day

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/12/10...ost-control-of-the-automaker-sources-say.html

 

[saintpauljeff]

More dirt on Tavares and Stellantis keeps coming out every day

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/12/10...ost-control-of-the-automaker-sources-say.html

repost

 

[Jeepdoggydog]

repost

And Ghosn who was his mentor, and got caught embezzling at Nissan. Here is a pretty good summary of Stelantis.

 

[GeneralMaximus]

A morale boost for the guys who built our Jeeps. Tavares leaves and its a Merry Christmas indeed!

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/com...brupt-departure/ar-AA1wjiTt?ocid=BingNewsSerp

 

[legacy_etu]

A morale boost for the guys who built our Jeeps. Tavares leaves and its a Merry Christmas indeed!

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/com...brupt-departure/ar-AA1wjiTt?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Wow, I'm happy for them. This is a rare move by corporate America. You don't see these layoff reversals often.

There's still a lot to fix though.

Sponsored