New Stellantis CEO is Antonio Filosa, Former Head of Jeep

[ShadowsPapa]

but they also have the guarantee of the government saving them if it gets too bad.

GM and Ford, maybe - but the climate has changed and Stellantis is mostly foreign these days............
They'd better watch out - they were teetering on the edge there for a while. Some legit issues and exposure of known problems not being addressed will shove them backwards again.
They need to be very careful, and hope for some miracles soon. It's a global market and some big guys out there will trounce them.

Sponsored

 

[Deleted member 67086]

Not for over a decade, though............
These didn't come out until 2015 for the 2016 model year.
The issues were most numerous in later years and have slowed in subsequent years.
This design has only been out a decade.

I laugh at the "class action suit" because they lump the 2012 engine with the 2022 engine and claim "it's a known issue" and yet - no the original 3.6 issues were totally different, unrelated, very different CAUSES.
The effect was the same - follower and cam replacement.
The cause - not the same.
Do they need to address it? YES. Absolutely, and we don't know that they aren't. We don't know either way, really. We don't even KNOW numbers! We guess, speculate and try to go by forum posts.
Imagine some alien race from out there visit a hospital before they plan on taking over Earth, and see how strong humanity is and how easy it will be to take over.
Surprise!
Visit forums and you see all of the problems with Jeep in one place, magnified and repeated.
In other words - we don't know numbers - failures vs. those which go over 100,000 or even 200,000 with no failures, we don't know the years of the worst issues, we don't know the SOURCE of the engine - Mexico vs USA builds, we don't know what FCA has or has not tried, have they addressed it in any way? Any changes at all? Or are they shrugging and moving along ignoring it? We don't really know, do we?
If they know, if the numbers are high like forums believe, and if it's just being shoved under the rug hoping people will eventually move on and it will disappear, I'll be right there smacking them. But I don't have enough facts to do that at this point.
We don't know. We speculate.

And isn’t that really the issue, zero communication on a well known issue? I understand the latest gen of the Pentastar has a different valve train. I think it’s safe to say that moving away from the needle bearing rockers was at least an attempt to address this issue, but it seems like a failed attempt at best, so I don’t give them a pass on simply trying. The rocker arm/cam issue has spanned generations of Pentastars. May be different causes based on changes that were made, or other variables, but the end result is the same.

 

[Deleted member 57233]

GM and Ford, maybe - but the climate has changed and Stellantis is mostly foreign these days............
They'd better watch out - they were teetering on the edge there for a while. Some legit issues and exposure of known problems not being addressed will shove them backwards again.
They need to be very careful, and hope for some miracles soon. It's a global market and some big guys out there will trounce them.

They'll just dump the American brands. Their European and Asian market vehicles are doing fine.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

They'll just dump the American brands. Their European and Asian market vehicles are doing fine.

Saturn, Plymouth, Pontiac.................... different, but still indications that if it ain't making money or is costing too much, it goes away.
Sell? Maybe - but, there's no guarantee another company would take it and do better could end up worse it's a craps shoot either way.
And of course - these days, the brands that sell in the other markets - Europe, Middle East, South American markets and so on - will better survive.
Brands that depend mostly on US sales - ?????

 

[Deleted member 57233]

Saturn, Plymouth, Pontiac.................... different, but still indications that if it ain't making money or is costing too much, it goes away.
Sell? Maybe - but, there's no guarantee another company would take it and do better could end up worse it's a craps shoot either way.
And of course - these days, the brands that sell in the other markets - Europe, Middle East, South American markets and so on - will better survive.
Brands that depend mostly on US sales - ?????

The French and Italian auto makers have always done this. Try to get a foothold in the US market, realize it's not worth it, pack up and go home, try again in 10-20 years.

 

[Mr Miami]

The French and Italian auto makers have always done this. Try to get a foothold in the US market, realize it's not worth it, pack up and go home, try again in 10-20 years.

Yes, from France, Peugeot, Citreon and Renault immediately come to mind. Here in the past, gone now.

 

[Mr Miami]

Saturn, Plymouth, Pontiac.................... different, but still indications that if it ain't making money or is costing too much, it goes away.
Sell? Maybe - but, there's no guarantee another company would take it and do better could end up worse it's a craps shoot either way.
And of course - these days, the brands that sell in the other markets - Europe, Middle East, South American markets and so on - will better survive.
Brands that depend mostly on US sales - ?????

If you are saying that Jeep would be dealt a severe blow by someone else purchasing it, I tend to disagree. I think it would be screwed up by some entity that "thinks" they understand Jeep and want it for potential profits and cash flow (ala Stellantis). However,

Saturn, Plymouth, Pontiac.................... different, but still indications that if it ain't making money or is costing too much, it goes away.
Sell? Maybe - but, there's no guarantee another company would take it and do better could end up worse it's a craps shoot either way.
And of course - these days, the brands that sell in the other markets - Europe, Middle East, South American markets and so on - will better survive.
Brands that depend mostly on US sales - ?????

Sorry, system went down .......... anyway, the more I think about it, there may be less of a risk with a major Chinese company purchasing Jeep than many here seem to think. Maybe the Chinese would be smart enough to leave the product alone and not try to squeeze it too hard for profits. Maybe they might look at it as a part of American culture they are "stealing" from the US. I think they would be smart enough to not mess with it too much and make it too "Chinese" and lose the uniqueness that makes Jeep a Jeep. Perhaps having real "Jeep people" in charge. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, I don't know.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

f you are saying that Jeep would be dealt a severe blow by someone else purchasing it, I tend to disagree. I think it would be screwed up by some entity that "thinks" they understand Jeep and want it for potential profits and cash flow

I'm suggesting it could be a roll of the dice - sometimes things end up worse, sometimes better, sometimes a company is purchased and GUTTED because they want a single product, screw the rest. (1980s, and of course don't even think of letting the French jerks like were at Renault over the years touch it. Those idiots were scary and tended to rape and pillage, grab the cash and run.)

 

[Sweetums]

If the cam tick is not addressed, it results in loss of power while driving and possible destruction of the engine. Sounds similar to this, no?? “Toyota is recalling approximately 102,000 2022-2023 Tundra and Lexus LX 600 vehicles due to a potential engine failure caused by machining debris. The recall, identified as NHTSA recall 24V-381, stems from debris left in the engine during the manufacturing process, which can lead to crankshaft main bearing failure and potentially cause the engine to stall or lose power while driving.”

NHTSA didn't force that recall, it was registered with them, but voluntarily by Toyota. NHTSA doesn't consider that a safety issue, and this administration is weakening consumer protections across the board. Don't expect any help from NHTSA or any other regulatory body - their staff has been gutted, budgets slashed, and mandates rewritten to facilitate maximum profit and minimal "interference".

 

[Viper501]

The French and Italian auto makers have always done this. Try to get a foothold in the US market, realize it's not worth it, pack up and go home, try again in 10-20 years.

Institutional Alzheimer’s

 

[Deleted member 57233]

Yes, from France, Peugeot, Citreon and Renault immediately come to mind. Here in the past, gone now.

Well guess who owns Jeep right now lol

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well guess who owns Jeep right now lol

Get the French involved and it's disaster. My son about had a real fit when they were after one of the Korean car makers a while back.
He all but screamed NOOOOOOO!!! Not them!

 

[bleda2002]

If the cam tick is not addressed, it results in loss of power while driving and possible destruction of the engine. Sounds similar to this, no?? “Toyota is recalling approximately 102,000 2022-2023 Tundra and Lexus LX 600 vehicles due to a potential engine failure caused by machining debris. The recall, identified as NHTSA recall 24V-381, stems from debris left in the engine during the manufacturing process, which can lead to crankshaft main bearing failure and potentially cause the engine to stall or lose power while driving.”

Yes and no, we don't know the number of pentastars eating themselves, but it's probably an extremely low percentage or we'd be hearing about it a lot more. The tundra engines were dying at an alarming rate and early life cycle affecting a significant portion of engines.

For all we know were talking about a few dozen per 10 thousand on the pentastars which would be well below the need for some kind of mass recall. Unless there has been a sudden inundation of reports on this and the jl forum it still seems to be a pretty limited occurrence compared to the tundras which was all over the place in large numbers.

 

[Sweetums]

Yes and no, we don't know the number of pentastars eating themselves, but it's probably an extremely low percentage or we'd be hearing about it a lot more. The tundra engines were dying at an alarming rate and early life cycle affecting a significant portion of engines.

For all we know were talking about a few dozen per 10 thousand on the pentastars which would be well below the need for some kind of mass recall. Unless there has been a sudden inundation of reports on this and the jl forum it still seems to be a pretty limited occurrence compared to the tundras which was all over the place in large numbers.

I did the math back when I was shopping and I think it was around 2% across all platforms based on the best info I could put together at the time.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Let's assume that the 12,000 back orders means 12,000 wasted cams.
The figure for the Pentastar out of Mexico was 6,000,000 as of 2023.
There are said to be 20,000,000 of them on the road, using the various numbers I found and considering the dates they were posted, it would make about 10,000,000 of the PUG engine out there.
10,000,000 x 0.1% is 10,000
My gut says less than 1% of the PUG engine has experienced a cam failure.

100,000 failures would be 1%

I don't believe that.......... could be wrong, but it just doesn't math out in my mind.

Sponsored