If its lifetime fluid why is this needed?

[mrmo]

100 % right. I just looked it up.The auto trans for the gas job JT is built in Germany, shipped to the U.S. and installed in Toledo Ohio. The artical say's it's one of the best and strongest transmissions around. The American built one is in the diesel. The German built one is better.

wrong, the other way around...rhe 875 is true ZF

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[g2020]

The 100k is to get CAFE credits for manufactures that is why and for sale for those who look at cost of maintenance in buying.

100k the trans will make it for for sure and pass the warranties period as well. It will however be with significant permeant wear. It will be real real black when drained. ZF released a memorandum which says 80KM or 50K Miles and on the subject and a video I have seen on youtube talking about it at 100KM or 63k Miles. If you off road and tow even sooner. A drain and fill at least every 30k if you want long life. Keep in mind, most of the oil still stay when you do a change. That's why 30k miles at least.




New on the left 50k miles on the right

Do you happen to have a link to the ZF memorandum? The best info (from ZF) on service intervals that I have is in the PDS for LifeguardFluid 9 (doc #2 in this post). I will add the ZF memo to that post. Also see post #7 in this thread.

 

[GladiatorPilot23]

Do you happen to have a link to the ZF memorandum? The best info (from ZF) on service intervals that I have is in the PDS for LifeguardFluid 9 (doc #2 in this post). I will add the ZF memo to that post. Also see post #7 in this thread.

I can't find it on ZF anymore. They removed info from their site a while ago. Makes you wonder why?

Good info on your thread and #7 post. Have you tried that auxiliary pump method in the patent?

 

[NC_Overland]

It all depends on your definition of lifetime. For many of the original purchasers, they don't have the vehicle long enough to have to worry about transmission maintenance.

Jeep manufactures the transmission and states the fluid fill is good for the lifetime of the transmission. Under normal use, without any undue stress, it can go beyond 100k miles without a fluid change. It doesn't mean it's going to be in great shape, but it can do it.

The designer of the transmission says the fluid should be changed at 60k miles. Since Jeep is providing the warranty coverage, they get to set the maintenance schedule. Calling it a lifetime fill doesn't mean it never needs changed, just that it should not need changed under normal operating conditions.

ZF said the fluid is good for 60k? They call lifetime 150k in all of their other applications that I’m aware of.

 

[g2020]

I can't find it on ZF anymore. They removed info from their site a while ago. Makes you wonder why?

Good info on your thread and #7 post. Have you tried that auxiliary pump method is the patent?

ZF tends to remove docs (when they need to be updated) and then repost them in a different place. If you run across the memo in the future, just DM it to me.

I haven't had the ATF for the automatic transmission changed yet. I never thought that I would encounter a catch-22 in which the fluid should be changed, but the dealer avoids performing this service like the plague. My vehicle has about 48K mi on it. I am going to check with a few dealers to see if they'll do it for a normal price.

 

[g2020]

ZF said the fluid is good for 60k? They call lifetime 150k in all of their other applications that I’m aware of.

Sorry, but ZF does not say "lifetime 150K". They do say "lifetime oil", and then "150,000 km" (93,000 miles, for normal driving) in the same paragraph (nice doublespeak!!). Much lower for severe duty or heavy loads. For severe duty or heavy loads, the rule-of-thumb is about 40%-50% of normal driving.

Please see doc #2 in this post, and post #7 in this thread.

 

[Mr._Bill]

ZF said the fluid is good for 60k? They call lifetime 150k in all of their other applications that I’m aware of.

No, they don't say how long the fluid is good for. They recommend a drain and fill (not a flush) at 60k miles for the transmissions made by ZF. Stellantis produces the Jeep transmissions under license from ZF in a US factory. They call it a lifetime fill for the transmission fluid they put in it, but do not associate a specific distance with it.

 

[Viper501]

One of the several reasons, alluded to earlier, for the ‘lifetime’ fluids and the extended service intervals goes back to the (circa 1980s) Mercedes / Lexus wars with JD Powers over cost of ownership rankings. Mercedes was getting murdered by JD Powers for the annual costs of ownership because they used appropriate intervals while Lexus touted their much lower costs based on their anrbitrary alteration of the service intervals.

Everyone else joined the race to the bottom since the general public doesn’t know enough to understand why and only looks at the pablum served to them by dealers and advertisements.

My very well educated and successful CPA grandfather fell victim to it, sold his Mercedes and dove into Lexus. Of course he never kept a car for more than a year or two so he never ran into the consequences of this type of maintenance interval.

 

[NC_Overland]

No, they don't say how long the fluid is good for. They recommend a drain and fill (not a flush) at 60k miles for the transmissions made by ZF. Stellantis produces the Jeep transmissions under license from ZF in a US factory. They call it a lifetime fill for the transmission fluid they put in it, but do not associate a specific distance with it.

I understand that about the licensing. I don’t believe the 60k drain and fill. Unless, it’s changed since my 2020, it’s the same fluid as ZF uses in the ZF built units like in the diesels.

Who recommends this? Dealership? I could see that as an upsell.

 

[NC_Overland]

Sorry, but ZF does not say "lifetime 150K". They do say "lifetime oil", and then "150,000 km" (93,000 miles, for normal driving) in the same paragraph (nice doublespeak!!). Much lower for severe duty or heavy loads. For severe duty or heavy loads, the rule-of-thumb is about 40%-50% of normal driving.

Please see doc #2 in this post, and post #7 in this thread.

Yes they do or at least did. A ZF rep literally told me that.

 

[Hootbro]

Do you happen to have a link to the ZF memorandum? The best info (from ZF) on service intervals that I have is in the PDS for LifeguardFluid 9 (doc #2 in this post). I will add the ZF memo to that post. Also see post #7 in this thread.

Attached is a ZF document I have dated from 2016 on the 8HP and fluid changes. They recommend an 80,000 km (50,000 miles) to 120,000 km (75,000 miles) “depending on driving style”, listing high temperature towing, high speed driving and sporty driving.

I interpret that as normal service would be the 75,000 mile recommendation with severe service being 50, 000 miles if not sooner.

 

[Mr._Bill]

I understand that about the licensing. I don’t believe the 60k drain and fill. Unless, it’s changed since my 2020, it’s the same fluid as ZF uses in the ZF built units like in the diesels.

Who recommends this? Dealership? I could see that as an upsell.

ZF recommends it for the transmissions they produce in their factory. The documents are referenced in various threads here. Jeep provides the warranty, so they set the service schedule for the transmissions, whether produced by ZF or Stellantis. The 850RE transmission used by Jeep is a ZF design built in a Stellantis Factory. The recommendation is to have the dealer do the drain and fill to maintain warranty coverage. Not all Dealers are willing to do a drain and fill, since Jeep labels the fluid in the transmission as a lifetime fill. The dealer that does a drain and fill potentially becomes responsible for the transmission if it requires warranty service afterwards and Jeep refuses coverage.

Some do their own drain and fill, and filter changes. Some put upgraded pans on that hold more fluid. I debated a drain and fill, but traded the first truck in at 57k miles, so it never became an issue for me. The second truck has 12k miles, so far. I will see what the current situation is like if I still have it at 60k miles.

 

[NC_Overland]

ZF recommends it for the transmissions they produce in their factory. The documents are referenced in various threads here. Jeep provides the warranty, so they set the service schedule for the transmissions, whether produced by ZF or Stellantis. The 850RE transmission used by Jeep is a ZF design built in a Stellantis Factory. The recommendation is to have the dealer do the drain and fill to maintain warranty coverage. Not all Dealers are willing to do a drain and fill, since Jeep labels the fluid in the transmission as a lifetime fill. The dealer that does a drain and fill potentially becomes responsible for the transmission if it requires warranty service afterwards and Jeep refuses coverage.

Some do their own drain and fill, and filter changes. Some put upgraded pans on that hold more fluid. I debated a drain and fill, but traded the first truck in at 57k miles, so it never became an issue for me. The second truck has 12k miles, so far. I will see what the current situation is like if I still have it at 60k miles.

I don’t understand this. They do not do this for Audi, BMW, JLR, etc who use their transmissions. I worked for all of these dealerships and we literally never did a fluid change or flush on any ZF 8 speed.

 

[Viper501]

I don’t understand this. They do not do this for Audi, BMW, JLR, etc who use their transmissions. I worked for all of these dealerships and we literally never did a fluid change or flush on any ZF 8 speed.

My X5M had BMW saying the same thing but ZF saying the opposite. ZF even has a very complex procedure that says exactly how to change the fluid including operating temperatures. I posted a link to it on here previously.

All of the manufacturers are incentivized by Consumer Reports, JD Powers, etc., to nominalize maintenance costs as it directoy impacts costs of ownership. ZF doesn’t have that issue so they tell the truth which is that all lubricants / fluids need to be changed at some point. “Lifetime” is term without any meaning since the auto manufacturers never say who’s lifetime they are using as a yardstick.

As noted by @Mr._Bill the majority of initial purchasers are not going to get to the 100k mark and Jeep, et al., will not have to worry about it since the vehicles are out of their warranty period at that point.

 

[NC_Overland]

My X5M had BMW saying the same thing but ZF saying the opposite. ZF even has a very complex procedure that says exactly how to change the fluid including operating temperatures. I posted a link to it on here previously.

All of the manufacturers are incentivized by Consumer Reports, JD Powers, etc., to nominalize maintenance costs as it directoy impacts costs of ownership. ZF doesn’t have that issue so they tell the truth which is that all lubricants / fluids need to be changed at some point. “Lifetime” is term without any meaning since the auto manufacturers never say who’s lifetime they are using as a yardstick.

As noted by @Mr._Bill the majority of initial purchasers are not going to get to the 100k mark and Jeep, et al., will not have to worry about it since the vehicles are out of their warranty period at that point.

If it’s that complicated then I’m not sure that I trust a Jeep dealership to do a fluid change for me. They’ve been very hit or miss for me.

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