If its lifetime fluid why is this needed?

[ScottBeach]

https://[Banned Site]/stellantis-patents-advanced-transmission-fluid-drainage-system/

Patent for a forced fluid drain for transmission

But it's lifetime fluid.

I am confused.

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[Mr._Bill]

It all depends on your definition of lifetime. For many of the original purchasers, they don't have the vehicle long enough to have to worry about transmission maintenance.

Jeep manufactures the transmission and states the fluid fill is good for the lifetime of the transmission. Under normal use, without any undue stress, it can go beyond 100k miles without a fluid change. It doesn't mean it's going to be in great shape, but it can do it.

The designer of the transmission says the fluid should be changed at 60k miles. Since Jeep is providing the warranty coverage, they get to set the maintenance schedule. Calling it a lifetime fill doesn't mean it never needs changed, just that it should not need changed under normal operating conditions.

 

[sharpsicle]

Sometimes you contaminate the fluid and have to change it.

Just because it's marketed as "lifetime" doesn't mean it's impervious to external things like contamination or degradation from abuse.

 

[ScottBeach]

Oh. I change mine. Just funny they are claiming a patent for something they claim isn't required

60k. Drain and fill. Happy the '24 has a separate filter from the pan. The '20 was a pricy drain and fill

 

[Mr._Bill]

Not required, and not needed, are two separate things. They don't require a change as part of the maintenance schedule under normal use, they don't say that it never needs to be done.

 

[Badunit]

But it's lifetime fluid.

It is for when the transmission dies of old age. The transmission undertaker will drain its fluids before it is sent to an automobile graveyard. Or something like that? I suppose it could also be used for transfusions during its lifetime.

 

[g2020]

Patent title: Transmission fluid change using internal pump
Patent number: 12209651
Patent search: https://ppubs.uspto.gov/pubwebapp/static/pages/ppubsbasic.html
Verification: This is the correct patent; to verify, see the top online search result for "stellantis-patents-advanced-transmission-fluid-drainage-system" and compare the diagrams for patent 12209651 to those published by the top online search result (it should be the banned site in the original post above)
Comment: This patent appears to be for the removal of ATF from any automatic transmission, not just the ZF 8HP50 / Chrysler 850RE installed in the Gladiator

Service Interval for ATF in Automatic Transmission

For service life of the ATF in the automatic transmission, the published guidance (see PDS, attachment 2) from ZF is 93K mi (normal driving), and an estimated 42K mi +/- 5K mi for off-road use (see ATF for automatic transmission in Important Reminders). In the same paragraph of the ZF doc, ZF calls their approved ATF a "lifetime oil" and then contradicts that statement by recommending an oil (ATF) change after 150,000 km (93,000 mi) for normal driving.
Notes: 1) Chrysler manufactures the 850RE under license from ZF, and 2) ZF approves the ATF equivalents sold by MOPAR (and other vehicle OEMs) under license from ZF.

Also, as we already know, ATF for the automatic transmission is absent from the maintenance schedule in the Gladiator owner's manual. To explain this, between Sep 2019 and Dec 2024, at least three service advisors at dealers in different states insisted that the ATF in the automatic transmission is a lifetime fluid. Don't blame them because they are probably required to toe the company line.

This is just my opinion, but I think that the powers that be managed to justify the use of the word "lifetime" by proving that average years of ownership is less than the expected service life of the ATF. I also believe that they did this (absent any other valid reason) to satisfy at least one current or anticipated environmental standard. Dealers then adopted the term "lifetime fluid" as an explanation for the omission (of ATF for the automatic transmission) from the maintenance schedule.

Regardless of what we are told, there is a mileage gap of at least 57K mi (38%) between the guidance in the ZF PDS and the mileage end point of the maintenance schedule (150K mi).

Transmission Oil Filter

For the transmission oil filter, it appears that MOPAR 68417054AB Transmission Oil Filter is sold individually and (also) fits a 2020 Gladiator. See the additional "fitments" under VEHICLE FITMENT.

Country of Origin - Automatic Transmission

The following info is also in reference to the series of links shown in the first section above: ZF 8HP50 / Chrysler 850RE installed in the Gladiator.

Kokomo (Indiana) plant: Stellantis manufactures the Chrysler 850RE automatic transmission, under license from ZF, at this plant

- This is the origin of the automatic transmission installed in most Gladiators equipped with a gasoline engine; some exceptions may have occurred as a result of supply chain issues during the COVID era ​

Gray Court (South Carolina) plant: A joint-venture between ZF and Stellantis manufactures the ZF 8HP50 automatic transmission at this plant

- Most or all 8HP50 automatic transmissions manufactured at this plant are for vehicles other than the Gladiator​

Saarbrücken (Germany) plant: ZF has manufactured the ZF 8HP50 automatic transmission at this plant

- This is the origin of the automatic transmission installed in at least some Gladiators equipped with a diesel engine​

- Most 8HP50 automatic transmissions manufactured at this plant have been for vehicles other than the Gladiator​

- With ZF converting this plant to electric drives, it is unclear whether the 8HP50 is still manufactured in Germany​

 

[Sweetums]

https://[Banned Site]/stellantis-patents-advanced-transmission-fluid-drainage-system/

Patent for a forced fluid drain for transmission

But it's lifetime fluid.

I am confused.

Lifetime means "when the fluid reaches the end of its life, it kills the transmission."

 

[sharpsicle]

Oh. I change mine. Just funny they are claiming a patent for something they claim isn't required

You’d be right if they said it’s non-serviceable. But that’s not the case; it’s definitely designed to be serviceable. It’s just not part of routine maintenance.

This is like saying you can’t believe they sell replacement axles when they claim axles should last the life of the vehicle.

 

[Hootbro]

Just funny they are claiming a patent for something they claim isn't required

Manufacturers patent things that they never intend to use in any immediate future if at all. It has the side effect of blocking their competitors from the tech while the patent period is still valid unless they license it.

 

[jac04]

I can see it now ... "I got the dreaded P0xxx code and I'm stuck in limp mode. The dealer says my transmission internal auxiliary electric fluid extraction pump needs to be replaced."

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Once, put 446,000 miles on my ZF8 and never touched the trans, transfer case, or diffs.

Next truck came with new fluids.

 

[ScottBeach]

446k on a trans is crazy. Even with service. I am a huge fan of the zf designed 8sp.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I think sky high repair costs kill modern vehicles made after 2010 or so more than anything.

If I had paid a shop to replace my turbo coolant line, they would have lifted the cab and charged me 3k, along with wanting to change the intake and injector lines and a ton of crap I put right back on there.

If I had paid a shop to replace my oil cooler, it probably would have been 2k, and again, they would have wanted to change a bunch of other crap I put right back on.

If I had paid a shop to replace my HPFP, would have been 5k or more, they would have wanted to do every fuel line and injector, I changed the pump in the parking lot and partied on.

People are out there doing everything right, finest Amsoil unicorn horn synthetics every single day for piece of mind, and get handed giant bills, and say eff it, and tap out.

 

[Alan_Hepburn]

Jeep manufactures the transmission and states the fluid fill is good for the lifetime of the transmission.

I thought the transmission was a ZF transmission?

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