engine replacement advice request

[ShadowsPapa]

I've never writen a manufacturer or dealer. I don’t see it doing much good with over 64k over the original warranty.

I agree, probably not, but I've found it never hurts, either.
I got a phone call from the assistant to the CEO of Safelite after writing to the CEO.
Man, that case got jumped on and it caused training and new procedures and tools to come into play for Jeeps (assuming they follow through)
I got a full license for multiple servers from Novell years ago when I wrote them about a worthy cause - thousands of dollars worth of software and operating systems.

You never know, but then those were very different cases.
Once in a while, something makes it to the right person, and a politely worded letter can't hurt - all that's wasted is time if nothing comes of it.

But in essence, yeah, what you said.........

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[Hootbro]

I do not see a goodwill coverage being that far out of warranty. What was the code for the MIL you ran for two years?

 

[Lost1wing]

Let me tell you my story from last weekend related to check engine lights. OP, pay attention!

I drove 280 miles to pack up a few more things to bring back to my new house. My wife is in the Grand Cherokee and calls me and says that the check engine light is on. I had her open the hood to check fluid levels and read off the engine info that the dash gives out. All was good and it seemed to run normal. Once home, I verified her findings.

I could have driven 35 minutes to a parts store to have the codes read but my son was planning to drive to me with my scanner. When we scanned for codes, it turned out to be oil pressure malfunction. Could have been the oil pump or could have been part of the indication system or worse, another component of the oil system.
In my case it was the sending unit internally shorted and pegged at 226 psi. A new sending unit fixed the issue. Driving with this code most likely would not have caused an issue, but not knowing the issue was enough for me to find out before driving.

Backing up a bit, when my son got in my Silverado to bring me my code reader and help with loading things, the cel light came on. He read the code before leaving and found a dreaded emissions fault. So he ended up taking his SUV instead.

Back to the Cherokee, we replaced the sending unit and verified the fix the next morning. Driving home I was almost at piece until the F650 Uhaul popped up a message and a wrench on the dash. Service Engine see Owners manual is what it told me. It was running fine at the time, but I pulled over and call Uhaul. I gave told them the issue and engine parameters. I was given the go ahead to continue unless more issues arise. They did about 20 miles later. Engine started missing and bucking going up hills. I pulled over again and called Uhaul. This time, I sat for 4 hour waiting on service that never showed up. When the crowd around me started going and I noticed more and more individuals looking my way and making comments, I fired up the truck and drove with the message not knowing what it was. It bucked and skipped at every incline, but I made it the last 45 miles home.

I ended up putting the scanner on it just to see what it was. Something to do with torque management and computing.

All I trying to say is that there are times that you would drive with an unknown code or the car overheating, running bad, etc. Two years? With the same issue? Your dealer failed you and you had the assist. Let's fix your part and get those codes read and fixed in a timely manner. I doubt the ECU was givibg a false positive

 

[WILDHOBO]

I've been getting the same feeling about this dealership.

Here's a detail I left out: Check engine light has been lit for two years. I brought it to their attention the day it came on. From that day to this, they claimed they addressed whatever minor issue that caused it to come on in the first place, but they could not clear out the check engine light after they addressed the problem, and I would just have to live with it. So essentially, I've been driving around with what was described to me as a false positive check engine light, when in reality, the Jeep has been trying to tell me something (or some things) for two years I inadvertently ignored. That said, I've never received an "engine overheating" light.

Those idiots.

 

[NC_Overland]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I’ll share my experience and leave you with what I wish I had of done.

My 2020 JTR @51,000 miles developed a tick that quickly became a rattle. Took it to the dealer. My warranty had expired five months earlier. I opted for a new engine. That invoice was $8,320. I was satisfied, after all I had a tremendous amount of money invested in upgrades. 1200 miles later it’s back in the shop. This time cam phasers and $1,150. Again loving my gladiator.

Now for where I feel like I messed up. 3,500 miles on the new engine. Developed a faint tick. Took it to the dealer, they agreed it had a problem. The repair would have cost me nothing but time without my gladiator.

I traded for a 2025 JTR in mojito. I love the color, however not a single day has passed that I feel like I made the right decision. From my experience. If you like what you have it’s worth fixing.

Just my opinion after my experience.

That’s super suspect. It’s possible, but not at all likely. I’d have be scouring that thing to make sure they actually replaced the engine.

 

[Stormtroopin]

I've been getting the same feeling about this dealership.

Here's a detail I left out: Check engine light has been lit for two years. I brought it to their attention the day it came on. From that day to this, they claimed they addressed whatever minor issue that caused it to come on in the first place, but they could not clear out the check engine light after they addressed the problem, and I would just have to live with it. So essentially, I've been driving around with what was described to me as a false positive check engine light, when in reality, the Jeep has been trying to tell me something (or some things) for two years I inadvertently ignored. That said, I've never received an "engine overheating" light.

wow huge red flag right here, if you paid them money and they could or didn’t fix the issue I would never have returned to this dealership…..

 

[Charles 236]

I have seen many 3.6 "ticking" issues that were the result of a high lift rocker/high lift cam lobe failure. Although it is possible for that to cause a misfire, in reality I have always found that it doesn't set a DTC. Why? Because the engine spends the vast majority of it's time running in low lift mode. If a rocker fails to release from high lift mode, or to switch from low to high lift mode, it can cause a misfire. This misfire condition usually doesn't last long enough to cause a MIL on.

The oil cooler replacement in some models brings problems of it's own. Failing to completely bleed and fill the cooling system can cause overheating. I have seen this happen a number of times, especially when someone is in a hurry to get the job done and doesn't make sure the system is filled and bled.

The MIL on for two years is ultimately a failure to properly diagnose the problem. I have encountered many cases where the tech just picked the external items to replace and then sent it on the way. I have seen a number of 3.6 PUG engines have misfires caused by a very slight head gasket leak, allowing coolant to enter the cylinder when the engine is shut off. When restarted, the coolant causes a misfire for a brief period, over time this does cause a MIL on condition. Since the misfire clears fairly quickly, most people don't pay it attention until the MIL stays on. By this point, there maybe damage to the deck surface. At this point, depending on the severity of the deck surface damage, engine replacement may be necessary.

 

[Lost1wing]

I have seen many 3.6 "ticking" issues that were the result of a high lift rocker/high lift cam lobe failure. Although it is possible for that to cause a misfire, in reality I have always found that it doesn't set a DTC. Why? Because the engine spends the vast majority of it's time running in low lift mode. If a rocker fails to release from high lift mode, or to switch from low to high lift mode, it can cause a misfire. This misfire condition usually doesn't last long enough to cause a MIL on.

The oil cooler replacement in some models brings problems of it's own. Failing to completely bleed and fill the cooling system can cause overheating. I have seen this happen a number of times, especially when someone is in a hurry to get the job done and doesn't make sure the system is filled and bled.

The MIL on for two years is ultimately a failure to properly diagnose the problem. I have encountered many cases where the tech just picked the external items to replace and then sent it on the way. I have seen a number of 3.6 PUG engines have misfires caused by a very slight head gasket leak, allowing coolant to enter the cylinder when the engine is shut off. When restarted, the coolant causes a misfire for a brief period, over time this does cause a MIL on condition. Since the misfire clears fairly quickly, most people don't pay it attention until the MIL stays on. By this point, there maybe damage to the deck surface. At this point, depending on the severity of the deck surface damage, engine replacement may be necessary.

If his cat was bad, it for sure toss a p0420 code way before the cat went bad.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There's just no way in heck I'd run with a MIL on for any longer than it took me to get back to my garage and put JSCAN on it, or get it to a dealer and say it's yours - fix it.
When I had the "occasional" MIL for misfires, I left the bypass and BT adapter plugged in and kept my phone on the dash mount so I could "catch it in the act".
Having that thing even come on occasionally drove me batty. I can't accept it.
I don't know if it's my perfectionist part, OCD/ADHD, or being a long-time mechanic/troubleshooter - there is SOMETHING wrong, and if the light is on and there's nothing wrong, there's STILL something wrong just by virtue of the light being on and being wrong!

At this point, depending on the severity of the deck surface damage, engine replacement may be necessary.

Head gasket was bad on the Iron Puke that was in my son's car. 100,000 miles, it blew a rod bearing (those are aluminum bearings, and they don't survive "issues" very well)
I never expected to see the head gasket issue, but it was close to an exhaust valve, and it literally started to "eat" a passage in the head between the cylinders. I got the head shaved enough to pretty much get rid of that - it sealed fine (the shop I had to the head truing said I was on the edge of being able to shave the head far enough without upping compression so badly there would be problems)
WEIRD things can happen with coolant leaks in engines, blown head gaskets and such. Sometimes a crack is in a place where it only "seeps" when cold, I've seen the opposite where it will hold pressure when cold, but when driven, loses coolant.

 

[Charles 236]

I agree about the MIL, if it comes on I want to know why, then repair it before a little issue becomes a bigger issue. Head gasket leakage seems to be an issue with the PUG engine, I have studied and repaired enough of them to be familiar with it. In fact, I have a Pacifica coming in next week for head gasket failure, or at least that is what the owner thinks it could be. I will diagnose it first, but head gasket issues are far more common than cam issues in the PUG used in the Pacifica.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

In fact, I have a Pacifica coming in next week for head gasket failure, or at least that is what the owner thinks it could be. I will diagnose it first, but head gasket issues are far more common than cam issues in the PUG used in the Pacifica.

This is why I don't like to really speculate a whole lot because I have to wonder if the tunes, country of origin and certain other things are different between Pacifica, Grand Cherokee and the JL/JT series (and Ram trucks of course)
There are variables way beyond "it's a 3.6, they are all the same" - no, not really, IMO.
But that's just my opinions based on observations and a tiny bit of digging.

 

[Charles 236]

This is why I don't like to really speculate a whole lot because I have to wonder if the tunes, country of origin and certain other things are different between Pacifica, Grand Cherokee and the JL/JT series (and Ram trucks of course)
There are variables way beyond "it's a 3.6, they are all the same" - no, not really, IMO.
But that's just my opinions based on observations and a tiny bit of digging.

I had a couple friends (they were brothers) who would do a sort of verbal diagnosis (they debated about what failed) of mechanical problems in their cars back in the day, rather than actually do the diagnosis that would tell them for sure what was wrong. Of course, I could tell them what was wrong with their cars, but they didn't believe that their cars being Ford products was a real problem. Kinda like taking a problem to the internet to get the most accurate possible diagnosis, instead of finding a trusted shop to do the work.

As for the difference between various PUG engines, I have seen far more head gasket failures in Pacifica PUG engines than in Wrangler and Gladiator PUGs. The only obvious difference is the upper intake manifold, it is over the left (front) bank on Pacificas and Wranglers/Gladiators versus the Grand Cherokee PUG being over the right bank. The Pacifica intake has the throttle body to the rear (transmission end) of the engine versus front mounted throttle bodies on other versions, although it may be a Grand Cherokee intake turned around. Not sure about that, though, I never gave it any thought. I am sure that the tune is different in each different engine application, and this may factor into the Pacifica having more head gasket issues than the Gladiator and Wrangler.

 

[WILDHOBO]

I had a couple friends (they were brothers) who would do a sort of verbal diagnosis (they debated about what failed) of mechanical problems in their cars back in the day, rather than actually do the diagnosis that would tell them for sure what was wrong. Of course, I could tell them what was wrong with their cars, but they didn't believe that their cars being Ford products was a real problem. Kinda like taking a problem to the internet to get the most accurate possible diagnosis, instead of finding a trusted shop to do the work.

As for the difference between various PUG engines, I have seen far more head gasket failures in Pacifica PUG engines than in Wrangler and Gladiator PUGs. The only obvious difference is the upper intake manifold, it is over the left (front) bank on Pacificas and Wranglers/Gladiators versus the Grand Cherokee PUG being over the right bank. The Pacifica intake has the throttle body to the rear (transmission end) of the engine versus front mounted throttle bodies on other versions, although it may be a Grand Cherokee intake turned around. Not sure about that, though, I never gave it any thought. I am sure that the tune is different in each different engine application, and this may factor into the Pacifica having more head gasket issues than the Gladiator and Wrangler.

If you want a reliable vehicle that makes you happy to be in it, don’t buy a ford. It cheapens you.

 

[Stan H]

I had a couple friends (they were brothers) who would do a sort of verbal diagnosis (they debated about what failed) of mechanical problems in their cars back in the day, rather than actually do the diagnosis that would tell them for sure what was wrong. Of course, I could tell them what was wrong with their cars, but they didn't believe that their cars being Ford products was a real problem. Kinda like taking a problem to the internet to get the most accurate possible diagnosis, instead of finding a trusted shop to do the work.

As for the difference between various PUG engines, I have seen far more head gasket failures in Pacifica PUG engines than in Wrangler and Gladiator PUGs. The only obvious difference is the upper intake manifold, it is over the left (front) bank on Pacificas and Wranglers/Gladiators versus the Grand Cherokee PUG being over the right bank. The Pacifica intake has the throttle body to the rear (transmission end) of the engine versus front mounted throttle bodies on other versions, although it may be a Grand Cherokee intake turned around. Not sure about that, though, I never gave it any thought. I am sure that the tune is different in each different engine application, and this may factor into the Pacifica having more head gasket issues than the Gladiator and Wrangler.

They are indeed as you said not all the same, some have different horse power ratings and plenum's and accessories mounts. But if stripped to the long block and both are VVL's then the computer in the gladiator would be the tune needed along with switching all the stuff over off the gladiator motor . Its a lot of work. Take a day just to place everything over .

 

[ShadowsPapa]

They are indeed as you said not all the same, some have different horse power ratings and plenum's and accessories mounts. But if stripped to the long block and both are VVL's then the computer in the gladiator would be the tune needed along with switching all the stuff over off the gladiator motor . Its a lot of work. Take a day just to place everything over .

Are the cam profiles the same on all PUG engines?

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