IFS coming in 2029?

[Jaxmax]

First, if the wrangler goes IFS, I will never buy another (new) one.

There are a couple of things that make the Wrangler desirable.
It's "All American"
The first "SUV" off-road buggy.
A hero from World War 2
Obviously, the very long lineage
It makes an unapologetic statement
And, very importantly
Is
That front live axle.
Live axles best fit the off-road scene, except, perhaps, that desert racing thing, which is foreign to 90% of this nation.

I don't even like driving on aggressive trails with others in those IFS vehicles because they can't handle the obstacles requiring a lot of articulation. They can't follow the same line as a Wrangler/Gladiator. Even the older Rovers, Blazers, and Broncos are better off-road than the 4-runners and Broncos.

Having said that, I think most Jeep Wrangler/Gladiator buyers are not avid off-roaders. They like the seven-slot grill and the boxy design and watch the "Jeep-Wave" commercials. In a sense, they just don't get it. And heck, look at the Wrangler sales themselves. Don't most people buy a sport to get the look without having to pay for the essential stuff like lockers and disconnecting sway bars?

Should whoever is running Jeep make the call to toss the live axle, then in my view, the essence and soul of the Wrangler is gone. It will take a lot of courage from leadership to keep the live axle. People in general do not opt for vehicles that approximate my first F250, which had rubber floor mats, a stick shift, AM radio, and manual windows. There is a charm in driving something so "bare", but it seems to be lost on recent generations. For that reason, we may see the passing of an era as we slide into a more comfortable, safer, tech-savvy, soft-touch, cozy car thing. Count me out, I'll keep what I have.

I agree with Don, Jeep is like the only four wheel drive to remain basically the same since it came out in WW2, going IFS and unibody or changing the basic design really will be the end of the Jeep. I still love the handling and comfort of my Mojave, and even the ground clearance issue people bring up , solid axle has a fixed ground clearance IFS, lose that on bumps.......Jack

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[JTdiRtyD]

I´m not so sure IFS is less expensive. Might be. But it also appears to be more complex. I might also be wrong about that. I know they don´t care about this, but I like being able to do an alignment with a tape measure in my garage, too, with no worry about camber.

Ground clearance is an advantage of IFS, but I´d trade articulation any day for the loss in ground clearance.

And of course, lifting and modifying is FAR easier with a solid axle. But Chevy and Ford took care of that by offering factory 35´s, which is probably as big as I will go. The 37+ crowd remains unaddressed, though.

Not sure if it's less expensive to produce, but all other models use IFS so from a manufacturing perspective it's more cost effective to have one process/line for IFS vs a separate line for IFS and a separate line for solid axle. Thats double the manufacturing space, double the equipment and machinery, double the forms, castings, tooling, etc., double the cost of maintenance and upgrades and support contracts... it all adds up.

When I worked steel manufacturing year ago one of our big pushes was finding ways to make one tool work for multiple uses vs multiple tools for single uses. We went from having rooms full of tooling in each department to just a few shelves.

 

[professorkx]

Moab is where IFS goes to die…

 

[Bbannongmu]

I'll take one. I could be wrong but there must be a reason if you want to go fast in the desert then majority are IFS

I don’t have any deserts in PA and I don’t want to spend $10,000 to lift my Jee.

Also rectangle headlight pods of sorts. But as far as IFS? That’s kind of a deal breaker for me, even though my 13 month old Gladiator with only 14,000+ change miles had developed the dreaded death wobble. It’s just a Sport S with factory 245/75-17 Bridgestone Dueler HT tires I run at 32 psi all around. Back over the last 6 months I’ve felt a very slight wobbly feel in the steering after hitting certain med bumps in the road. But yesterday on a 120 mile round trip 70-75 mph trip at a leisurely 22.5 mph, I had a couple episodes of moderate wobble, enough to warrant slowing down with a slow side to side steering motion to cancel out the wobble, that worked well, of course luckily there was no traffic nearby. I’m about to get the oil changed for the third time, I wasn’t planning on doing to my dealer, but now I have something else to be looked at, there does seem to be a lite stain/seepage? On the bottom side of the steering damper, so I hope that’s all. If so I’m going to try to have the dealer use the warranty to co vs er the labor, but I’ll pay for an upgraded dampener, like Bilstein 5100, to have them installed instead. If they won’t, maybe if the warranty replacement fails nearer to the end of the warranty? Wish me luck.

Steering stabilizers are never the cause or the fix for DW. Good luck.

 

[skiptheroad]

I would buy the next gen wrangler with ifs. Then immediately design, engineer, build and market Skips Sasswap package for the new Wrangler.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Steering stabilizers are never the cause or the fix for DW. Good luck.

Exactly. They are for bump steer. Dozens of threads here explain and I've posted a number of quotes and graphics from engineers, and a Jeep builder, who state that quite clearly (but people don't want to believe the experts, so it keeps getting said)

I'll take one. I could be wrong but there must be a reason if you want to go fast in the desert then majority are IFS

Another, perhaps better way to look at it -
The majority of vehicles out there are IFS - so of course, that's what you'll see.
I'd venture a guess that the majority of built-up Jeeps hit other trails, rocks and so on, deserts are limited in locations and also of interest - what are the badges for? Trails - not speeding along on the sand.

It's too often the case where "cause and effect" get turned up-side-down.

Since other than Jeep Wrangler or Gladiator, (or the ZJ or WJ), most are IFS, it might make sense that most SUVs and trucks on the desert sands are IFS, maybe while the Jeep people use their massive articulation to keep more wheels on the ground crawling up the sides of cliffs or through ravines where IFS would need to ask a Jeep for a winch out of trouble.

Israel is a lot of sand and desert and worthless land - the Jeep club is big there. You see Jeeps along their highways and streets almost as often as you do here.

(Terrorists prefer Toyota because they all look alike, are cheap and easy to get)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

When I worked steel manufacturing year ago one of our big pushes was finding ways to make one tool work for multiple uses vs multiple tools for single uses. We went from having rooms full of tooling in each department to just a few shelves.

I still have pictures, and their company newsletter, from when Dad won an award for cutting down the number of steps needed on one of the presses in the plant where he worked. Some of the guys were ticked because they felt he was working with the company to cut jobs, but he was actually only saving them time and steps, kicking production up, cutting no jobs, making the workers more productive (and in his mind, maybe worth a bit more pay?)

 

[DanW]

Not sure if it's less expensive to produce, but all other models use IFS so from a manufacturing perspective it's more cost effective to have one process/line for IFS vs a separate line for IFS and a separate line for solid axle. Thats double the manufacturing space, double the equipment and machinery, double the forms, castings, tooling, etc., double the cost of maintenance and upgrades and support contracts... it all adds up.

When I worked steel manufacturing year ago one of our big pushes was finding ways to make one tool work for multiple uses vs multiple tools for single uses. We went from having rooms full of tooling in each department to just a few shelves.

Where are there dual lines for suspension for the Wrangler/Gladiator? Everything coming out of Toledo has a solid front axle. Or are you saying across different models? With that, even with IFS in common, they are different. The Grand Cherokee does not have the same components as the Cherokee, which is also different from the Renegade/Compass.

Looking at the total number of Wranglers/JT´s, economy of scale is there, for sure.

That said, there´s a lot of metal in a solid axle.

 

[JTdiRtyD]

Where are there dual lines for suspension for the Wrangler/Gladiator? Everything coming out of Toledo has a solid front axle. Or are you saying across different models? With that, even with IFS in common, they are different. The Grand Cherokee does not have the same components as the Cherokee, which is also different from the Renegade/Compass.

Looking at the total number of Wranglers/JT´s, economy of scale is there, for sure.

That said, there´s a lot of metal in a solid axle.

Not same components no, but it's easier to combine tooling and machinery and processes, etc. across similar products/designs/engineering processes.

Again, it's just a guess. You see the same idea implemented across other aspects of vehicle manufacturing to reduce manufacturing costs and increase efficiency.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Where are there dual lines for suspension for the Wrangler/Gladiator? Everything coming out of Toledo has a solid front axle. Or are you saying across different models? With that, even with IFS in common, they are different. The Grand Cherokee does not have the same components as the Cherokee, which is also different from the Renegade/Compass.

Looking at the total number of Wranglers/JT´s, economy of scale is there, for sure.

That said, there´s a lot of metal in a solid axle.

Vehicles with IFS come out of different places. The frames are built in a different building. The front suspension being all the same makes it really easy - but once you say we do Mojave in IFS and Rubicon solid axle, now you have two different frames to build, two different frame lines, different vendors and suppliers and you would likely have final assembly on different lines instead of all coming down the same line. The equipment is set up to deal with specific parts.
The jigs for welding the frames for IFS would have to be different, you'll have different shock placement, new upper and lower left and right control arms, axles with joints on each end - for each side.

you'll need a new way to suspend and secure the front differential as it will have to hang from the frame and be mounted solidly (getting rid of any front driveshaft issues, but now you'll have your axle joints running extreme angles)

 

[Hootbro]

Doing a lift on a IFS vehicle will suck. It will not longer be the Lego style of lift kits we have now that you can do in your driveway on a weekend.

 

[Bbannongmu]

TROLLING... HELLYEAH .. CLICK THE LINK, NOT VALID .. BS STORY.

Not a troll. The link is broken (I think because I had a MT account ?!?) but another user posted the correct link. Now if MT is pushing clickbait - that’s debatable.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2029-jeep-wrangler-what-we-know-future-cars

 

[Stan H]

Doing a lift on a IFS vehicle will suck. It will not longer be the Lego style of lift kits we have now that you can do in your driveway on a weekend.

As IFS goes up the A-arms must lengthen or else the camber will change
IFS in a straight line as depicted in the video is what its good at IFS on a side x side is one thing . Dont try to convince me that they can be loaded for overlanding like the solid axles can.
I hope they NEVER bring it to fruition.

 

[Bbannongmu]

Doing a lift on a IFS vehicle will suck. It will not longer be the Lego style of lift kits we have now that you can do in your driveway on a weekend.

Agreed.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Not a troll. The link is broken (I think because I had a MT account ?!?) but another user posted the correct link. Now if MT is pushing clickbait - that’s debatable.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2029-jeep-wrangler-what-we-know-future-cars

They are no longer the respected magazine of years ago. They do a lot of copying, speculating, and the people writing have pretty much no experience. I have to laugh at some of the more recent articles on engine builds and how they try to explain stuff - dude, you have never personally seen a connecting rod, have you?
Sad, because so many rags and blogs exist out there, they have to come up with some ways to generate traffic and stay relevant.
Maybe it will happen, maybe they have been following some other trails that lead to such a conclusion? Could be, but............ this far out, and the fact that so many stick with the Wrangler, and bought the Gladiator because it IS NOT IFS - I wonder what Jeep's inside research tells them?
Maybe we are such minorities now, they can't afford to not appeal to those who want cushier rides?
Maybe Bronco shook them up, scared the #$% out of them?

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