First oil change

[smlobx]

@ShadowsPapa thanks for the comment above. I may almost as old as you! And coming from the high performance racing world if there is one thing that can start an argument is “ which oil is best?” ;-)

Based on the questions asked on this forum I think most of the participants are rather new to this debate. That’s why I tried to keep my answers rather straight forward without getting into the weeds.

Like you, I am a big Mobil 1 fan and run it in all our gas engines. As far as which viscosity is best that depends on a lot of factors. Many high performance manufacturers (where performance is more important than mileage) recommend a wider viscosity oil. 0W-40 and 5W-40 are popular choices and the Mobil 1 European formula 0W-40 is one of the best oils out there... BUT the truth is there is actually no true 0 weight oil. Most are in the 2-3W range, not that that makes any difference other than to say there is not much difference between a 0W and 5W oil all other things being equal...

Also, these high Performance engines typically run in a much higher RPM range where they redline anywhere from 7600 to over 9000 rpms where a thicker oil provides better film protection once the engine is properly warmed up. The lower weight rating just means that the oil flows better at a lower temperature AND at initial start up where a lot of wear can occur if the internal parts are not properly lubricated.

As far as the question of whether we should use the recommended 0W-20 or the 5W-30 I don’t think we will ever get 10 people to agree on a single answer. They are very close in performance. I personally believe it’s more important to change the oil more frequently than going to 8 to 10K miles between changes and that will result in better longevity than anything else.

One other comment. FCA or Mopar does not manufacture their own oil. Neither does any other auto manufacturer. They just rebrand another manufacturer. It would cost billions of dollars to produce motor oils and the ROI doesn’t come close...

‘Off my soap box for now!

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[ShadowsPapa]

@ShadowsPapa thanks for the comment above. I may almost as old as you! And coming from the high performance racing world if there is one thing that can start an argument is “ which oil is best?” ;-)

Based on the questions asked on this forum I think most of the participants are rather new to this debate. That’s why I tried to keep my answers rather straight forward without getting into the weeds.

Like you, I am a big Mobil 1 fan and run it in all our gas engines. As far as which viscosity is best that depends on a lot of factors. Many high performance manufacturers (where performance is more important than mileage) recommend a wider viscosity oil. 0W-40 and 5W-40 are popular choices and the Mobil 1 European formula 0W-40 is one of the best oils out there... BUT the truth is there is actually no true 0 weight oil. Most are in the 2-3W range, not that that makes any difference other than to say there is not much difference between a 0W and 5W oil all other things being equal...

Also, these high Performance engines typically run in a much higher RPM range where they redline anywhere from 7600 to over 9000 rpms where a thicker oil provides better film protection once the engine is properly warmed up. The lower weight rating just means that the oil flows better at a lower temperature AND at initial start up where a lot of wear can occur if the internal parts are not properly lubricated.

As far as the question of whether we should use the recommended 0W-20 or the 5W-30 I don’t think we will ever get 10 people to agree on a single answer. They are very close in performance. I personally believe it’s more important to change the oil more frequently than going to 8 to 10K miles between changes and that will result in better longevity than anything else.

One other comment. FCA or Mopar does not manufacture their own oil. Neither does any other auto manufacturer. They just rebrand another manufacturer. It would cost billions of dollars to produce motor oils and the ROI doesn’t come close...

‘Off my soap box for now!

LOL - pretty well said. Hard to call it a soap box if it's actual experiences.

Anyway, this is what I've used to support my choices - come to find out a lot of what I've done through the decades is now being supported by actual research and science. I just used my training and observations and personal experiences.
This guy, an engineer, does clarify things by saying sometimes the choices depends on the specific engine's clearances and specs. If you have more clearances in bearings, around lifters and so on, then you'll need more viscosity.
I'll paste in his comments and let him explain in a way - (it's interesting that in a race engine, 830 HP, same engine, same car, different viscosity only, and the 25 degree difference in sump oil temp)
----------------------------------------
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Here are some comparison numbers from an 830 HP road race engine on the track:

15W50 oil = 80 psi = 265* oil sump temperature

5W20 oil = 65 psi = 240* oil sump temperature

Here you can see how the thicker oil flowed more slowly through the bearings, thus getting hotter, driving up bearing temperatures and increasing sump temperatures. And the thinner oil flowed more freely and quickly through the bearings, thus cooling and lubricating them better than thicker oil, while also reducing sump temperatures.

Here’s some additional background on all this – You might be surprised by how much heat can be generated just from an oil’s internal friction, though friction may not the best term to use here. It is probably better to think of this as the heat generated due to the shearing action taking place within the oil.

It is the shearing action of the oil between the crankshaft and bearings, while the engine is under a heavy loading condition, that generates the bearing heat that we are concerned with. The oil wedge formed as the crankshaft pulls oil in and around the clearance as it spins, is liquid oil. And since liquids cannot be compressed, the oil wedge itself is what carries that heavy engine loading (oil pressure serves only to deliver oil to the crank/bearing interface) and prevents the crankshaft and bearings from coming in contact with each other, once the engine is running. Cold start up after sitting, is when the bearings and cranksaft start out in contact with each other.

--------

If an engine is running hot, use a thinner oil to increase flow, increase internal component cooling, and help keep sump temperatures down. Keeping oil temps down is important to help keep oil below the threshold of thermal breakdown.

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the “specific” viscosity selected for any given engine, is very important. Engine build differences and engine wear differences, result in different clearances. And depending on how robust an oiling system is, different clearances can require different motor oil viscosities for engines to generate acceptable oil pressure. The looser the clearances, the faster a given motor oil viscosity will bleed off through those clearances. Or the thinner the viscosity, the faster the oil will bleed off through given clearances. So, we need sufficient oil pressure to ensure that an adequate oil supply is always present at critical components, to protect an engine from wear and/or damage.
.
And having various motor oil viscosities available, allows us to select the correct oil for any given engine, no matter what its clearances may be. To automatically take into account all the possible variations, I recommend using the thinnest oil that will still maintain acceptable “HOT” oil pressure. And that viscosity requirement can vary from engine to engine, because of differences in clearances.
.
In addition to that, the viscosity chosen may also make a difference in mechanical engine noise. Sometimes, an engine might have a little mechanical tick or rattle that isn’t really a problem, other than bothering the owner, which can be eliminated by choosing the next thicker viscosity, than oil pressure requirements alone, may have required. So, viscosity choices can give us options to meet the needs of any given engine.
.
SUMMARY – MOTOR OIL VISCOSITY SELECTION RECOMMENDATION

To provide an engine with the best “oil film strength/load carrying capability/shear resistance” wear protection during cold startup, warm-up, and normal operating temperatures – Select a HIGHLY RANKED motor oil from my Wear Protection Ranking List, that has the lowest cold viscosity rating, AND that also has the lowest hot viscosity rating, that will still maintain acceptable “HOT” oil pressure. For properly built engines, a highly ranked 5W30, will usually fulfill those requirements.

NOTE: When I talk about using thinner oil in engines as long as the oil pressure is still acceptable, I am generally referring to gas engines in Hotrods and Race cars, where any thoughts of referring a factory stock engine and its Owner’s Manual, has gone out the window, and where people tend to want to use 20W50 because they MISTAKENLY think it might be better. For those engines, there can be a significant improvement in oiling by using thinner oil than 20W50, as long as the oil pressure is still good. I say that, because a lot of those engines weren’t built with a high volume oil pump, and thin oil with a standard volume oil pump, can be asking for trouble. Thus, my comment about still needing acceptable oil pressure, in order to safely run thin oil in those engines.

----------- </end rat's quotes>-----------------

 

[TJ Mitchell Films]

Got my Gladiator in the end of June. Only 4,100 miles on it now. No way I'm going to be able to utilize those free Jeep Wave oil changes... I'm debating getting the first oil change at 5,000 something about going to 10,000 before the first one seems wrong to me.

 

[Adawg1203]

Got my Gladiator in the end of June. Only 4,100 miles on it now. No way I'm going to be able to utilize those free Jeep Wave oil changes... I'm debating getting the first oil change at 5,000 something about going to 10,000 before the first one seems wrong to me.

Im kind of in the same boat. Got my gladiator end of June and have 3700 miles on it. I'm going to do my first oil change now then two more next year, leaving one that I will do in June 2021 prior to expiration. So every 6 months or so I'll change the oil regardless of mileage.. Tire rotation may be a different story. If I rotate with every other oil change, I still miss out on two free rotations.

 

[Gatorized]

Im kind of in the same boat. Got my gladiator end of June and have 3700 miles on it. I'm going to do my first oil change now then two more next year, leaving one that I will do in June 2021 prior to expiration. So every 6 months or so I'll change the oil regardless of mileage.. Tire rotation may be a different story. If I rotate with every other oil change, I still miss out on two free rotations.

Easy answer to that is take advantage of the tire rotation at every oil change . Your tires will appreciate it!

 

[Tim]

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

I follow his test results. I use oils from the top of his list - at least 100,000 psi ratings, I never have used any additives, I don't follow the BS out there about cam break-in and all that nonsense. I build them, I follow DANA/PerfectCircle's ring break-in procedure (which takes all of about 5 or 10 minutes) and then drive the bloody thing. I've to this day, after 45 years of engine work, never lost one.

I have been following this thread out of curiosity. I have used Mobil 1 in my vehicles for as long as I can remember. While I understand there to be some beef between M1 and FCA that most likely has no bearing on engine oil performance, I have decided not to use Mobil 1 in the Gladiator until M1 carries the MS-6395 certification, be that only for potential warranty issues, should they arise. I found Rat's blog to be pretty informative. Actually, it's information overload, especially if trying to consume it in one sitting. Anyway, it seems as if Quaker State Ultimate Durability 0w-20 is actually a superb oil. According to the blog it performed significantly better than M1 0w-20.

Thoughts?

 

[smlobx]

Tim-
I generally agree with Rat’s analysis but I believe there are other things than just what he tests for.
I also agree that the M1/FCA issue may be one of politics so to speak..

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Here's a good one for ya -
My 73 Javelin has dual quad and the air cleaners protrude through a cut-out in the hood (to keep cool air available and of course it LOOKS COOL LOL)
A contractor working in our home needed a space to stage things - so I moved my Javelin out and parked it under a maple tree next to our house in the front yard. It was a nice day, moderate temps, not supposed to rain.
Woke up to find that we'd been hit by a 5"/hour rain. Holy @#$%#$@ batman, so I ran out and my worst fears were realized - the engine was full of water - lots of it. I pulled the spark plugs and cranked it over to expel the water from the cylinders - watched it shoot clean over the fenders.
Drained the oil - the drain pan must have had 10 quarts of liquid in it. I let it sit for a couple hours, then changed filter, put new oil in it and drove it around the section.
I was going to change the oil anyway as I was changing direction on that car trying something different for oil - so I put the new oil I was going to try in it.
So after driving it around the section with the new oil, I changed oil and filter again, drove it a few miles. Still some milky look here and there, wasn't totally happy that it was absolutely clear of any moisture or water at all. Just wasn't easy about it.
This is a higher HP engine - 377 hp, a bit over a horse a cube (it's a 360). So I changed oil and filter AGAIN and drove it around the section.
This time I saw no signs that there was any moisture left - no milky look, the oil fill tube was clear of any moisture or milky look, it looked fine this time.
The oil I use costs just shy of 50 bucks per oil change and I use expensive filters with synthetic filter material - not cheap paper filters costing only 5 bucks each.
Funny thing - the car idled way faster than it used to - about 200 RPM faster than it did before. I had to reset the idle on the carburetors.
The oil I'm using in that car now is 5W30 Renewable Lubricants Super High Performance Passenger Vehicle Bio-SynXtra motor oil rated in rat's testing at 130,436 psi
It ain't cheap but it's sure got the support of some heavy hitters and race teams.

Anyway, screw the miles - use those WAVE changes and tire rotations. So what if it's only got 3,000 miles on it - the stuff is free.
It's all in how, when and where you drive anyway. That high miles bit is for good conditions, long drives, moderate climates, IMO.
Cold weather, short drives - the rules change.

 

[Trippin01]

I'm lazy. I trust FCA programmers to tell the jeep when to tell me what I should be doing while its under warranty. But once its off warranty, early and often.

 

[Coyotesong]

No way do I run a new engine 7000 to 10000 miles before first oil change. First oil change is at 2000 miles.

 

[rafaelsmith]

No way do I run a new engine 7000 to 10000 miles before first oil change. First oil change is at 2000 miles.

Yeah, me too. I probably will do 1st change @3k then just let it tell me when after that.

I also tend to still really "baby/breakin" new engines for first couple hundred miles...however, since I will be picking my JT up in NC i will have a 10 hour interstate drive so oh well.

 

[PyrPatriot]

I changed mine at just shy of 5000, with 40% oil life reading on the display

 

[hjdca]

I changed mine at 2K miles and I will change it again at 5K miles. It is super easy to change, it takes 15 min.. Why sweat it ? It ends up costing you $40 or so for peace of mind. Oil filter is on top, no skid plate in the way for the oil plug, no spillage..., etc..

 

[rafaelsmith]

I changed mine at 2K miles and I will change it again at 5K miles. It is super easy to change, it takes 15 min.. Why sweat it ? It ends up costing you $40 or so for peace of mind. Oil filter is on top, no skid plate in the way for the oil plug, no spillage..., etc..

If disposing of used oil wasn't such a hassle around where I live I would go back to doing my own in a heartbeat.

 

[hjdca]

If disposing of used oil wasn't such a hassle around where I live I would go back to doing my own in a heartbeat.

Ok, I get it, good point....
Note: I keep four 5 gallon gas cans in my back yard. When they get full of used oil, I take them to Pep Boys or Autozone to dump them for free. Sometimes, they will only take one of the 5 gallon cans, other times 2 or 3. So, I may have to drive around to a couple of them.
I have a bunch of cars, so, I am always changing the oil.

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