What did you do TO your Gladiator today? [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS, NO GUN TALK]

[LordEnzo]

man that looks like quick sand

It was like a mud slushy. Didn't look bad at first, but when felt that nose drop, (insert Morgan freeman f***ed up quote). Luckily I was ready with shovel and winch. Left my trac boards at home tho. Pulled out fairly easy with buddy inside and in reverse.

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[Treyfoil]

I had installed the Rugged Ridge Spartacus front bumper and Smittybilt 9.5k winch. I had the same setup on my JL and really love this bumper. Oh and the custom pull strap as well

Did you notice much difference with the added weight / driving difference with this? I am assuming Mojave since orange.

 

[Jeepmonster]

Glad it helped. Thats the same set up i ended up with.

Give it some drive cycles so STFT carries over to LTFT tables. You picked up some WOT already, and it will help your efficiency some in a few drive cycles and add a touch more power. But also remember i did Intake after tuning, which is really REALLY needed on these, so youre results wont be the same
Intake only.

Enjoy!! Nice install!

Thanks for the tip and the previous write up. It put me over the edge buy this set up, and I'm glad I did. Makes we wonder if the reviews where dyno runs were made back to back isn't that conclusive, as the computer may not have had enough cycles to adjust - unfairly showing the CAI causing the truck to perform worse.

 

[johnparjr]

Did you notice much difference with the added weight / driving difference with this? I am assuming Mojave since orange.

My MPG is crappier since the 35’s but no real difference after the bumper and winch

 

[KurtP]

Thanks for the tip and the previous write up. It put me over the edge buy this set up, and I'm glad I did. Makes we wonder if the reviews where dyno runs were made back to back isn't that conclusive, as the computer may not have had enough cycles to adjust - unfairly showing the CAI causing the truck to perform worse.

Thats certainly likely depending how long it takes for adaptation into LTFT, which i dont know. I think some of them are also probably designed poorly.

The other issue is the tune itself. Our ecu doesnt even begin enrichment until nearly 5k. This is why all the AFE dyno’s show gains...if you look closely they are triggering fuel enrichment early somehow that corresponds with the gain in power. The fueling of the stock ecu is why i chose pulsar/tune before intake or exhaust.....

 

[Gren71]

Thats certainly likely depending how long it takes for adaptation into LTFT, which i dont know. I think some of them are also probably designed poorly.

The other issue is the tune itself. Our ecu doesnt even begin enrichment until nearly 5k. This is why all the AFE dyno’s show gains...if you look closely they are triggering fuel enrichment early somehow that corresponds with the gain in power. The fueling of the stock ecu is why i chose pulsar/tune before intake or exhaust.....

Where is your write up? Youve got me interested

 

[ssrgeoff]

Just curious - why do beadlock rings only go on the outer lip - when you air down don't you need to worry about the inner lip breaking a seal too? I'm asking because it popped into my mind and it is easy and your wheels look pretty so you must be an expert ( ? ). Sorry if there are multitudes of threads out there that explain this already. BTW - I liked your wheels polished but anodized (?) gold like that they are AWESOME!!!

Thank you... pretty happy with the gold. Have ran black wheels for years so wanted to try something different.

Lateral loading means that the most at-risk bead is the one on the bottom of an incline. The outer only. It's extremely rare to pop an inside bead. Really super hard core wheels have dual rings, but then you have to account for clearance issues with suspension, brakes, etc.

Good explanation.

 

[KurtP]

Where is your write up? Youve got me interested

Ive smattered some of the information around in various threads and touch on it in one of my intake review posts. I havent made a dedicated thread as to whats happening in the ECU; because almost always descends into some sort of argument based on people being so predisposed to the idea bolt ons dont work anymore or its too technical for people to really care. Youre the first person thats actually asked, so I’ll answer.

Im admittedly not writing ecu code anymore and havent for many years; so there are more than likely some nuances to tuning that have changed that Im ignorant to.

But, in short,the basics are that most ECU’s run 2 separate tables of injection modes in modern FI cars. Ford ecoboost is a notable exception to this, as they run live wide band at all times.

Closed Loop operation is when the ecu is using all available sensors to determine which fueling table to use and how much to enrich. Tps, “load”, air flow, temperature, etc etc etc, and O2 sensors. O2 sensors are the big ones, and have the power to over ride every single other input to add or remove fuel. So when youre at part throttle low load cruise; the o2 sensors on vehicles like ours is looking for a narrow band of a voltage signal that represents 14.7 afr, or stoich. This is mandated by the government; and i believe the regulation is so restrictive now that the mfg actually has to show that engine damage could occur before enrichment can start. Im just hitting wave tops here, but think about that how a truck is used. High heat, high load, hauling, towing etc. and Jeep didnt start enriching fuel until something like 5,000rpm. That margin had to come from somewhere, and since they werent going to add fuel, they de-tuned the power out of it and restricted the intake size compared to other versions of the 3.6. Mfg’s do this all the time.

So during closed loop operation is where people get the idea that “the ecu just dials it all out” and this is not accurate. When those o2 sensors are active, its dialing to 14.7, not a hp number. So if the intake and exhaust are flowing more and leaning out the engine, it will adjust fuel to add back until 14.7 is hit again. This is why my mileage is so good in part. More fuel molecules is more power even if the mix is still 14.7. I stay in 8th more readily and easily, and dont have to use as much throttle angle or downshifts. That fuel adjustment is called Short Term Fuel Trim or STFT. Over time, the ecu will store these changes to Long Term Fuel Trim or LTFT tables. That takes a few drive cycles how many depends on fuel trim adaptation sensitivity within the ecu. But once fueling is added to LTFT, it is now applied to all fueling tables to include openloop fueling tables until the ecu learning is reset. open Loop fueling means the ecu is no longer referencing O2 sensors; and going off fueling tables for throttle angle, rpm, temp, pressure etc. so as you drive and drive and drive you will generally add fuel to the ecu tables, and as long as the ecu has sufficient authority in adaptation tables to do so, it will continue to add fueling until eventually STFt Goes to zero. The ecu wants 14.7 at cruise from the o2 sensor and wants to change the tables in the ecu until it no longer makes big corrections. So yes. If you bolt on an intake and immediately run a dyno on a vehicle thats already tuned too lean for power, you will lose power as we have seen on the SB dyno. Id bet money if he did that dyno after a month of driving, the print would be higher. But since he wasnt controlling fueling actively, and the internet demands damn near same-instant dynos because people dont know how they work, it means you dont have time for adaptation if youre looking to sell or get InstaCred.

There is a video on youtube from an australian tuning company that explains exactly what is happening with fuel vs power; i dont remember the name but i think you could find it by searching “air fuel vs peak torque” or something like that. Edit: found it. Link is as the bottom.

So the reason i did tuning first was to correct the afr base tables of the ecu so that at wot there was enough fuel to actually make more power. Its why even on 37’s, today when a 2door jl tried to squeeze me out on a merge i dropped the pedal and easily walked right on by. Now my enrichment starts way earlier than 5k, so the intake and exhaust are actually helping a bit more.

Tuning properly for the fuel makes the bigger difference; but afterwords the improvements of intake and exhaust will be more readily felt and apparent, especially on an intake snorkel tube and airbox as small as ours. Youll still see improvements, but the ecu will only adapt fuel tables probably about 3% on that; when the ecu tune i bet is adjusting it something like 15%. Its true that intakes and exhaust can be made sufficiently efficient as to not allow a gain with the stock cam/manifolds/TB/heads etc...but thats not the case we have here with our motors. Intake and exhaust will both make power; especially if youre tuned somehow.

Hope that helps. I ended up having to make a couple edits.

 

[Gren71]

Ive smattered some of the information around in various threads and touch on it in one of my intake review posts. I havent made a dedicated thread as to whats happening in the ECU; because almost always descends into some sort of argument based on people being so predisposed to the idea bolt ons dont work anymore or its too technical for people to really care. Youre the first person thats actually asked, so I’ll answer.

Im admittedly not writing ecu code anymore and havent for many years; so there are more than likely some nuances to tuning that have changed that Im ignorant to.

But, in short,the basics are that most ECU’s run 2 separate tables of injection modes in modern FI cars. Ford ecoboost is a notable exception to this, as they run live wide band at all times.

Closed Loop operation is when the ecu is using all available sensors to determine which fueling table to use and how much to enrich. Tps, “load”, air flow, temperature, etc etc etc, and O2 sensors. O2 sensors are the big ones, and have the power to over ride every single other input to add or remove fuel. So when youre at part throttle low load cruise; the o2 sensors on vehicles like ours is looking for a narrow band of a voltage signal that represents 14.7 afr, or stoich. This is mandated by the government; and i believe the regulation is so restrictive now that the mfg actually has to show that engine damage could occur before enrichment can start. Im just hitting wave tops here, but think about that how a truck is used. High heat, high load, hauling, towing etc. and Jeep didnt start enriching fuel until something like 5,000rpm. That margin had to come from somewhere, and since they werent going to add fuel, they de-tuned the power out of it and restricted the intake size compared to other versions of the 3.6. Mfg’s do this all the time.

So during closed loop operation is where people get the idea that “the ecu just dials it all out” and this is not accurate. When those o2 sensors are active, its dialing to 14.7, not a hp number. So if the intake and exhaust are flowing more and leaning out the engine, it will adjust fuel to add back until 14.7 is hit again. This is why my mileage is so good in part. More fuel molecules is more power even if the mix is still 14.7. I stay in 8th more readily and easily, and dont have to use as much throttle angle or downshifts. That fuel adjustment is called Short Term Fuel Trim or STFT. Over time, the ecu will store these changes to Long Term Fuel Trim or LTFT tables. That takes a few drive cycles how many depends on fuel trim adaptation sensitivity within the ecu. But once fueling is added to LTFT, it is now applied to all fueling tables to include openloop fueling tables until the ecu learning is reset. open Loop fueling means the ecu is no longer referencing O2 sensors; and going off fueling tables for throttle angle, rpm, temp, pressure etc. so as you drive and drive and drive you will generally add fuel to the ecu tables, and as long as the ecu has sufficient authority in adaptation tables to do so, it will continue to add fueling until eventually STFt Goes to zero. The ecu wants 14.7 at cruise from the o2 sensor and wants to change the tables in the ecu until it no longer makes big corrections. So yes. If you bolt on an intake and immediately run a dyno on a vehicle thats already tuned too lean for power, you will lose power as we have seen on the SB dyno. Id bet money if he did that dyno after a month of driving, the print would be higher. But since he wasnt controlling fueling actively, and the internet demands damn near same-instant dynos because people dont know how they work, it means you dont have time for adaptation if youre looking to sell or get InstaCred.

There is a video on youtube from an australian tuning company that explains exactly what is happening with fuel vs power; i dont remember the name but i think you could find it by searching “air fuel vs peak torque” or something like that. Edit: found it. Link is as the bottom.

So the reason i did tuning first was to correct the afr base tables of the ecu so that at wot there was enough fuel to actually make more power. Its why even on 37’s, today when a 2door jl tried to squeeze me out on a merge i dropped the pedal and easily walked right on by. Now my enrichment starts way earlier than 5k, so the intake and exhaust are actually helping a bit more.

Tuning properly for the fuel makes the bigger difference; but afterwords the improvements of intake and exhaust will be more readily felt and apparent, especially on an intake snorkel tube and airbox as small as ours. Youll still see improvements, but the ecu will only adapt fuel tables probably about 3% on that; when the ecu tune i bet is adjusting it something like 15%. Its true that intakes and exhaust can be made sufficiently efficient as to not allow a gain with the stock cam/manifolds/TB/heads etc...but thats not the case we have here with our motors. Intake and exhaust will both make power; especially if youre tuned somehow.

Hope that helps.

First off
Holy crap thanks for taking the time to type all that out! Its 11pm here and im fighting the melatonin to read it but im pretty sure i got it. Wild the stuff I just dont know.

I have performance coil packs sitting in my garage waiting for a spring weekend to play with.

Would a more efficient spark lead to changes from the ecu? Or will it still always try to get back to its homeostasis level?

What flash did you do?

Did you have any issues with your pulsar? I feel like ive read nothing but negatives with it, even after they fixed their quality control issues.

 

[KurtP]

First off
Holy crap thanks for taking the time to type all that out! Its 11pm here and im fighting the melatonin to read it but im pretty sure i got it. Wild the stuff I just dont know.

I have performance coil packs sitting in my garage waiting for a spring weekend to play with.

Would a more efficient spark lead to changes from the ecu? Or will it still always try to get back to its homeostasis level?

What flash did you do?

Did you have any issues with your pulsar? I feel like ive read nothing but negatives with it, even after they fixed their quality control issues.

Sure man. I like trying to help when people ask for it. Thats how i learned what i have ??‍.

I dont think the coil packs will help. They probably generate plenty of spark. They used to make a big difference, but Its rare they need replaced on new modern vehicles anymore. I wouldnt consider replacing them until youre getting up in mileage or maybe if you supercharge it, and even then maybe not. I would think that if it were a weakness, you’d see the supercharger companies making them part of the kit. But, I’ve never specifically tested them on this platform, so thats all my assumption.

I have had issues with pulsar. Not as bad as what once was, but its dropped ESS memory intermittently and will randomly start up in a different tune. Other than that, its been great. I think given where it started, this latest version in a couple more weeks will be good to go. Im optimistic, anyway. Superchips is releasing a new version in a few weeks and they have me set for a replacement to try. Ill be honest that the livernois tune im sure makes a bit more power than pulsar. But i wanted easy in and out of the unit, didnt want a hacked open ecu, and all that. I just wanted a bolt on. And while they have a 93 file thats good; ill likely never run e85; and from dyno plots ive seen their 91 isnt noticeably stronger than the pulsar 91, so i prioritized the form factor of pulsar over the last couple hp of livernois. If none of my concerns apply to you, the livernois would drive great. The pulsar drives great, too. From the seat, i dont doubt their 30hp/27lbft on 91oct claim. It was a NOTICEABLE difference, and as you shift on the fly from stock to performance while youre at WOT and it catches the switch or doing back to back you can tell it picks up power from the seat.

I dont have a problem getting around untuned jeeps. At all. I even got around a v8 tahoe without TOO much fuss today at the same time as that 2door jl. There was a mess of a merge happening in front of me with idiot drivers, i had a chance to grab the far left lane a little early so I hit it. The tahoe had the same idea but couldnt beat me to it.

Id bet if an overland owner did what i have done and stayed on stock bumper and wheel/tire and 3.73, theyd get damn near 30mpg.

 

[Jdyowa]

This will fit the JL too!!!

 

[KurtP]

Put LaminX on my reverse lights. ?

 

[BuckeyeJeep]

Went ahead and finished installing my homemade headliners in the front. I’ll tackle the rear at another time, but pleased with how they turned out. Hopefully, makes a bit of difference with cabin noise and mild insulation benefits.

 

[IamAlan]

Put LaminX on my reverse lights. ?

It made a huge difference, didn't it?

 

[KurtP]

It made a huge difference, didn't it?

Sure did! Thanks!

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