First Time Truck Buyer - Does this plan make sense? Mainly questions about payload/towing...

[Serik]

Hi, Everyone,

I'm finally getting close to purchasing my first truck. After 5 years of home projects and stuffing lumber, trees, rocks, etc. into a small car - it's about time! I've had my eyes on the Gladiator since it was introduced a couple years ago. I just really like everything about it. But, I'm running into a few concerns/questions as I'm looking at which build makes the most sense for me.

At first I had my eyes on the Rubicon (doesn't everyone start here??), then the Mojave, then the Overland, and now I'm thinking about the Sport S Max Tow. I ended up on the Sport S Max Tow after digging deeper into payload and towing capacities. This will likely be my only truck for the next decade, so I want to make sure I plan accordingly. I'd like to start out with a bed rack + tent, and then eventually get a small 4-person camper down the line.

A 4-person camper is enough for my family, but my wife would like to have the option of sleeping 6 people just in case someone wants to come with us. This will likely almost never happen, but I want to be prepared if it does. I know we could just pitch a tent beside the camper, but I'm thinking I'd like to bring the bed rack tent + tow the 4-person camper. Does that make sense? Is it doable with the Sport S Max Tow? The math looks like...

Payload
- 300lbs (bed rack + tent)
- 400lbs (camper; I've read it's mostly 10% of the total weight of the trailer that adds to the payload)
- 600lbs (family)
---
Total Payload: 1,300lbs
Max Payload: 1,535lbs

Towing
- 4,000lbs camper
- ~200lbs gear + supplies (with Max Tow it's 7650lbs max tow capacity, so since I'm close to payload on the Jeep, I figure I can just load the camper with supplies?)
---
Total Towing: ~4,200lbs
Max Towing: 7,650lbs

Am I trying to do too much here? Is this going to put the Gladiator under constant stress during travel? I'm mostly traveling around the midwest, but I would like to eventually take it out west. I'd be curious to hear everyone's thoughts, especially if you have a Sport S Max Tow package.

Thanks in advance, everyone!

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[Cutterpillow]

While I'm also a first time truck buyer, so I don't have any experience to share, the things that you want to do with your Gladiator are very similar to what I want to do with mine. I'm in the process of ordering a Sport S with Max Tow for many of the reasons you cite: both increased towing capacity as well as increased payload.

I'd also considered the Rubicon (you have to at least consider the Rubicon ), and while it can be configured to tow up to 7000 lbs, it has a far lower payload capacity — like 500 to 600 lbs less — largely due to its rock armor (which you could take off I suppose, but then why pay extra for it?).

I chose the Sport S Max Tow because I want to do some of the same things as you:

• Ability to tow a travel trailer in the 5,000 to 6,000 lbs range.
• Ability to have a decent payload capacity when not towing.
• Good off road ability (not necessarily rock crawling).

I think the Sport S will be well up to the task for that.

 

[SeanKenmore]

Hi, Everyone,

I'm finally getting close to purchasing my first truck. After 5 years of home projects and stuffing lumber, trees, rocks, etc. into a small car - it's about time! I've had my eyes on the Gladiator since it was introduced a couple years ago. I just really like everything about it. But, I'm running into a few concerns/questions as I'm looking at which build makes the most sense for me.

At first I had my eyes on the Rubicon (doesn't everyone start here??), then the Mojave, then the Overland, and now I'm thinking about the Sport S Max Tow. I ended up on the Sport S Max Tow after digging deeper into payload and towing capacities. This will likely be my only truck for the next decade, so I want to make sure I plan accordingly. I'd like to start out with a bed rack + tent, and then eventually get a small 4-person camper down the line.

A 4-person camper is enough for my family, but my wife would like to have the option of sleeping 6 people just in case someone wants to come with us. This will likely almost never happen, but I want to be prepared if it does. I know we could just pitch a tent beside the camper, but I'm thinking I'd like to bring the bed rack tent + tow the 4-person camper. Does that make sense? Is it doable with the Sport S Max Tow? The math looks like...

Payload
- 300lbs (bed rack + tent)
- 400lbs (camper; I've read it's mostly 10% of the total weight of the trailer that adds to the payload)
- 600lbs (family)
---
Total Payload: 1,300lbs
Max Payload: 1,535lbs

Towing
- 4,000lbs camper
- ~200lbs gear + supplies (with Max Tow it's 7650lbs max tow capacity, so since I'm close to payload on the Jeep, I figure I can just load the camper with supplies?)
---
Total Towing: ~4,200lbs
Max Towing: 7,650lbs

Am I trying to do too much here? Is this going to put the Gladiator under constant stress during travel? I'm mostly traveling around the midwest, but I would like to eventually take it out west. I'd be curious to hear everyone's thoughts, especially if you have a Sport S Max Tow package.

Thanks in advance, everyone!

I just ordered Mojave and planning to do to camping occasionally -will be doing RTT only. I will not prefer towing any camper along with full payload capacity on Gladiator. If I have to do frequent towing and hauling together I think going with F-150 or RAM1500 would make more sense for best value for the money. Just my opinion since gladiator is more for fun and off-roading.

 

[07052021]

Hi, Everyone,

I'm finally getting close to purchasing my first truck. After 5 years of home projects and stuffing lumber, trees, rocks, etc. into a small car......

While I'm also a first time truck buyer, so I don't have any experience to share....

One thing to consider is the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR). I think it's 12,800 lbs. on Sport S w/ Max Tow. This is the max capable weight of the vehicle + trailer. My understanding of GCWR, is that you subtract the curb weight (~4,672 lbs.) and have 8,128lbs. to play with. This means you can't tow the max 7,650 lbs. and have a maxed out payload. I could be wrong though. Either way, I think you'll both fall within the carry + tow capabilities of the Gladiator.

 

[ygrignon]

Towing
- 4,000lbs camper
- ~200lbs gear + supplies (with Max Tow it's 7650lbs max tow capacity, so since I'm close to payload on the Jeep, I figure I can just load the camper with supplies?)
---
Total Towing: ~4,200lbs
Max Towing: 7,650lbs

You are underestimating the weight of the camper. Campers generally have water tanks and water is heavy. They also have propane and sometimes batteries. Add to that pots and pans, food, dishes, linens, etc. You might also want to bring a spare tire for the camper, bicycles, or a grill. Before you know it you are looking at 5000lb. You also want to factor in the weight of a weight distribution hitch. That’s required to reach the maximum tow hitch weight rating of 765lb. At 5000lb with the minimum 10% of tongue weight you now have at least an extra 100lb to subtract from you max payload.

 

[ZTMAN]

Gladiator is a great vehicle, but it sounds like you need a full size truck

 

[sunrise089]

Gladiator is a great vehicle, but it sounds like you need a full size truck

OP wants to tow 4,000lbs with a max tow. Do you feel like the Gladiator is that under-equipped that it can’t even tow half its rated spec?! Remember a Gladiator Max Tow’s rating isn’t very different from a THREE QUARTER TON truck’s rating from the early 2000s.

OP - asking this question on almost any forum will always generate answers of ‘you need a bigger truck.’ Heck, if your trailer was a little larger people would say you needed a dually

Here’s the real deal: if you need to tow this load a LOT, and live in challenging terrain like mountains, or if you drive like a moron, you may want to consider a full-size truck. Or, if a ‘truck is a truck’ to you but you want to brag to your buddies about how much horsepower it has or how nice the interior is, there are probably ways to get more towing capability without spending much more cash. Basically if you see yourself as an Overland hardtop buyer who’d never take the roof or doors off and who isn’t all that into Jeeps or off-roading, Gladiator isn’t offering you a lot here over a half ton.

BUT if you love the look or heritage of a Jeep, or want to hit the trails on the weekend, or (especially) want to take the doors or roof off, or want to take advantage of the best aftermarket/customization scene in existence, and ALSO need a truck, and are money or space constrained such that you can’t easily buy a Wrangler AND a half ton, then Gladiator sounds perfect for you.

FWIW I’ve towed loads as heavy as you’re talking about with a WRANGLER and it was totally fine as long as I watched what I was doing. With the more capable (longer wheelbase, superior axles and drive ratio, etc.) Gladiator I’d drive your load literally every day down here in flat Florida and never give it a second thought.

 

[whiteglad]

All your planned uses concerned payload and towing, not riding trails, etc. that are the primary uses for any Jeep. I consider my JT to be mostly a hunting and trail riding vehicle, with added suitability for daily driving, and backup (more or less emergency) use for towing. I use my Ram for towing and hauling and consider it much better for those uses. It is just kind of fat for the trails, and its suspension (3500 series) is stiff for trail use.

 

[kevman65]

OP, you have underestimated your weight a bit. 1 gallon of water = 8.34 pounds, looking up specs on a 16' ultra light camper total capacity of water is 83 gallons, that's fresh, gray, black and water heater. That comes to 692.22 pounds in just liquid, no solids.
Your weight distribution/anti sway hitch is going to be over 100 pounds.
Families with kids tend to over-pack, not be conservative, when it's vacation time.

@sunrise089 You can NOT just go by towing capacity. You HAVE to figure in payload also. The camper adds to payload, whatever the tongue weight is goes on the truck and comes off the payload. The hitch goes on the truck and takes off payload.

These trucks are borderline on cooling capabilities completely unloaded in hot weather and going up any inclines.

It is well documented here, and all over the web that the only reason the JT can't haul/tow more is because of cooling capacity. Yes HP and torque #'s say it should be higher, but if you boil the engine and it blows, you're dead weight on the interstate.

 

[ZTMAN]

OP wants to tow 4,000lbs with a max tow. Do you feel like the Gladiator is that under-equipped that it can’t even tow half its rated spec?! Remember a Gladiator Max Tow’s rating isn’t very different from a THREE QUARTER TON truck’s rating from the early 2000s.

OP - asking this question on almost any forum will always generate answers of ‘you need a bigger truck.’ Heck, if your trailer was a little larger people would say you needed a dually

Here’s the real deal: if you need to tow this load a LOT, and live in challenging terrain like mountains, or if you drive like a moron, you may want to consider a full-size truck. Or, if a ‘truck is a truck’ to you but you want to brag to your buddies about how much horsepower it has or how nice the interior is, there are probably ways to get more towing capability without spending much more cash. Basically if you see yourself as an Overland hardtop buyer who’d never take the roof or doors off and who isn’t all that into Jeeps or off-roading, Gladiator isn’t offering you a lot here over a half ton.

BUT if you love the look or heritage of a Jeep, or want to hit the trails on the weekend, or (especially) want to take the doors or roof off, or want to take advantage of the best aftermarket/customization scene in existence, and ALSO need a truck, and are money or space constrained such that you can’t easily buy a Wrangler AND a half ton, then Gladiator sounds perfect for you.

FWIW I’ve towed loads as heavy as you’re talking about with a WRANGLER and it was totally fine as long as I watched what I was doing. With the more capable (longer wheelbase, superior axles and drive ratio, etc.) Gladiator I’d drive your load literally every day down here in flat Florida and never give it a second thought.

My comment was not targeted at towing capacity. You run out of room real quick in a Gladiator. I happened to have both and it is just my opinion. based on the op's description
When you stuff ten pounds of potatoes in a five pound bag, things get tight.

We are all entitled to opinions, it is up to the OP to decide

 

[sunrise089]

My comment was not targeted at towing capacity. You run out of room real quick in a Gladiator. I happened to have both and it is just my opinion. based on the op's description
When you stuff ten pounds of potatoes in a five pound bag, things get tight.

We are all entitled to opinions, it is up to the OP to decide

Understood and appreciate the reply. I guess it depends on how often you need to fill the bag and how much you want to only carry the five-pound bag all of the other days.

I'd love to hear from @Serik more about how often he plans to go camping, where he's planning to drive, and how much he's planning to bring. I really do think there's a tendency online to push people into more truck than they need by emphasizing the capability benefits and downplaying the day-to-day costs, but you're right that's just my opinion. In particular I'm basing that opinion on a few assumptions:

1) OP says he's had only a small car for the past few years and will have this truck for many years to come. I read that to mean having multiple dedicated vehicles for different purposes isn't in the cards for him. I agree with @whiteglad that a Gladiator is no towing match for a Ram 3500, but most people don't realistically have the option to own both

2) OP says with respect to using both the camper AND the bed rack "This will likely almost never happen." I'm taking him at his word there. IMHO if he can manage that while staying in spec he doesn't need a huge cushion to account for something he's doing ~once per year.

3) OP claims his camper + gear is 4,200lbs. I concur if he's wildly off on that estimation then that paints a different picture. I'm trusting his numbers more or less as given.

4) OP is located in Indiana so I'm assuming he's not driving over tall western mountain passes with any regularity.

@kevman65: I appreciate your perspective and that you're offering a thoughtful, cautious reply. I still quibble on several points:

OP, you have underestimated your weight a bit. 1 gallon of water = 8.34 pounds, looking up specs on a 16' ultra light camper total capacity of water is 83 gallons, that's fresh, gray, black and water heater. That comes to 692.22 pounds in just liquid, no solids.
Your weight distribution/anti sway hitch is going to be over 100 pounds.

Maybe he's packing water and maybe he isn't, but I also pulled specs on a random trailer and got an empty weight of 3,132lbs and a tongue weight of 370lbs. Given those numbers why are we even talking about a weight distributing hitch? @ygrignon above says one is "required to reach the maximum tow hitch weight rating of 765lb." I'm not sure that's correct - I don't see that claim backed up by the manual but perhaps I'm missing it. But either way we're far from 765lbs tongue weight here...

You can NOT just go by towing capacity. You HAVE to figure in payload also. The camper adds to payload, whatever the tongue weight is goes on the truck and comes off the payload. The hitch goes on the truck and takes off payload.

Agreed. OP says his payload limit is 1,535lbs. What numbers are you using to push past that limit?

These trucks are borderline on cooling capabilities completely unloaded in hot weather and going up any inclines.

Respectfully, I'm not convinced this is true. I have seen people complain about this. I've also seen others say they have no issues. Issues which bother some owners and not others suggest to me there's a perception issue going on here and not a fundamental engineering limitation.

It is well documented here, and all over the web that the only reason the JT can't haul/tow more is because of cooling capacity.

I think it's well documented that this is the case with the EcoDiesel. I think it's also been documented, though I'm less confident that it tells the whole story, that the ultimate platform towing limit via a Max Tow is similarly cooling-constrained. I don't think it's at all well-documented that the reason manual models, Rubicons, and Mojaves all have tow limits of varying amounts under the platform max has anything at all to do with cooling. Remember OP is towing thousands of pounds under the max tow rating and will likely be hundreds of pounds under the payload rating.

 

[Darkamek]

The Gladiator is fine towing for three hours or so on flat land with a 4000lb trailer. Once you get into any mountainous terrain it is not as enjoyable.

My family did two trips back to back with our Forest River Wolf Pup 17jgbl with a weight distribution hitch. One was a 3hr 30min trip to Door County, WI. This trip wasn’t too bad but as it wasn’t too hilly. As long as you kept it in manual and were in 6th and 7th gear you were alright. The next trip I’m on right now was to Branson, MO. Going through the Ozarks isn’t so fun. The transmission dropped to third at one point to do 40mph up the steep grade. If your not doing mountains it is fine, but you will still feel cross wind and semis pass. We will be trading it in when we get back home for a bigger truck, as I already have another Gladiator. As long as you know it won’t tow as well as a full size truck it will be okay.

 

[bleda2002]

You'll be fine. You are under both ratings, the camper even loaded is 5500ish pounds. There are a lot of people that massively understimate the capabilities of a midsize truck and still consider these like the old rangers and Colorado's that would be more like compact trucks at this point. The sae tow rating test is much more grueling than what you will be doing and it got rated for literally almost 25% more than where you are at.

The big thing is to drive safe, stay within your limits in terms of speed and follow distance and tow safely.

 

[Serik]

Hi, again! Thank you for all of the replies. I really appreciate all of the info as I'm working through this decision! I'm just now able to get back to this after an unexpectedly busy weekend.... Apologies in advance for the long post, but I want to reply to several people.

I chose the Sport S Max Tow because I want to do some of the same things as you:

• Ability to tow a travel trailer in the 5,000 to 6,000 lbs range.
• Ability to have a decent payload capacity when not towing.
• Good off road ability (not necessarily rock crawling).

I think the Sport S will be well up to the task for that.

This is exactly why the Gladiator is my #1 choice. It just seems to do it all.

One thing to consider is the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR). I think it's 12,800 lbs. on Sport S w/ Max Tow. This is the max capable weight of the vehicle + trailer. My understanding of GCWR, is that you subtract the curb weight (~4,672 lbs.) and have 8,128lbs. to play with. This means you can't tow the max 7,650 lbs. and have a maxed out payload. I could be wrong though. Either way, I think you'll both fall within the carry + tow capabilities of the Gladiator.

Thanks for this. I was not considering the GCWR. I'm running the numbers again taking all of this into consideration, and maybe it is a bit overkill to throw the bed rack + tent in the mix with a trailer.

Gladiator is a great vehicle, but it sounds like you need a full size truck

I just can't do a full-size. I've driven my dad's F150 several times and while I don't have any difficulties driving it, it's just too bulky for me. I love the capabilities of the Gladiator, and at the end of the day even if I had to forgo a trailer I'd still go with something midsize for my other use cases.

BUT if you love the look or heritage of a Jeep, or want to hit the trails on the weekend, or (especially) want to take the doors or roof off, or want to take advantage of the best aftermarket/customization scene in existence, and ALSO need a truck, and are money or space constrained such that you can’t easily buy a Wrangler AND a half ton, then Gladiator sounds perfect for you.

These are all the things that draw me towards the Gladiator. I love the Freedom Top, I love that the doors come off, the customizability, the ability to offroad, and so on. I realize that didn't come across in my original post, but those are the primary reasons I'm looking at a Gladiator. My hope is to be able to also squeeze in a small 4-person trailer and have the ultimate do-it-all vehicle.

There is a very good chance this will be my vehicle until it doesn't run anymore, so I'm just trying to plan out long term what is feasible.

OP, you have underestimated your weight a bit. 1 gallon of water = 8.34 pounds, looking up specs on a 16' ultra light camper total capacity of water is 83 gallons, that's fresh, gray, black and water heater. That comes to 692.22 pounds in just liquid, no solids.
Your weight distribution/anti sway hitch is going to be over 100 pounds.
Families with kids tend to over-pack, not be conservative, when it's vacation time.

@sunrise089 You can NOT just go by towing capacity. You HAVE to figure in payload also. The camper adds to payload, whatever the tongue weight is goes on the truck and comes off the payload. The hitch goes on the truck and takes off payload.

Thanks for bringing this up, I definitely did not consider the extra weight you mention, but I added a bit to my estimates in the original post. I looked up some trailers and I really like the Coleman Rubicon. This would likely be the biggest trailer I'd consider, so I ran some more accurate numbers with that.

Trailer + Tongue Weight
Dry Weight 3,657 lbs
Max Fresh Water 350 lbs
Max Gray Water 233 lbs
Max Black Water 233 lbs
Gear, pots/pans, etc 650 lbs (hopefully this is an over estimate)
---
Total trailer weight loaded (assuming maxed out waters) = 5,123 lbs

Dry tongue weight = 555lbs
Added tongue weight (10%) = 146 lbs (10% of Total weight - Dry Weight)
---
Total Tongue Weight= 701 lbs

Payload
Family 600 lbs
Trailer Tongue Weight 701 lbs
Weight Distribution Hitch 100 lbs
---
Total Payload = 1,401 lbs

GCWR = 5,123 (Trailer) + 1,401 (Payload) = 6,524

Based on these numbers it looks like I'd have to drop the bed rack + tent, which I'm total fine with. My original post was more of a dream scenario, but I'm more than happy to drop the tent if needed.

Please correct me if any of my numbers are off. I'm new to this, so it's a good possibility I'm still missing something.

I'd love to hear from @Serik more about how often he plans to go camping, where he's planning to drive, and how much he's planning to bring.

Realistically, the majority of the time we'd be park hopping around Indiana and southern Michigan - probably once or twice a month. Ideally, I'd like to have the ability to take the camper to places like Florida and out west to national parks (one of these bigger trips a year). If the terrain out west is too challenging I'll just have to persuade my dad to come along and pull the trailer in his full-size truck

3) OP claims his camper + gear is 4,200lbs. I concur if he's wildly off on that estimation then that paints a different picture. I'm trusting his numbers more or less as given.

My original post was a rough estimate, but I redid the numbers above with the largest trailer I'd consider. I also include max water weights, so even those numbers will be lower most of the time.

My family did two trips back to back with our Forest River Wolf Pup 17jgbl with a weight distribution hitch.

Thanks for the info. Does your Gladiator have the Max Tow package?

 

[Darkamek]

Thanks for the info. Does your Gladiator have the Max Tow package?

Yes, it’s a Sport S with Max Tow package.

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