So disappointed in this Diesel platform; wish there was a return policy.

[CrazyCooter]

I have been working for several hours to build out some nice temp dashboards to monitor when you tow. I have them mostly dialed in I think...

Go to Amazon and purchase a VeePeak OBDCheck BLE+
Amazon Link (OBD Scanner)
And on your IOS device download this app. (Purchase the full app (PRO) It's cheap, like 8 bucks)
Car Scanner ELM OBD2 App

Then you can import the dashboards I have worked on by downloading this JSON file to your IOS device, and import it once you setup your car.
JSON File including Dashboard Config
(Settings, Dashboard, Restore Dashboard)

You will quickly be able to see Engine Derates, Fuel Pressure being cut.
Regen State (Passive / Active / None)
Turbo Temps (inlet / outlet)
Coolant / Oil Temps
Fuel Pressure (Demanded vs. Actual)
DPF Inlet Temps
EGT's
BOOST
Trans Temp

There is MINIMAL Lag in the Gagues (like sub 1 sec)
And all of this is your's for about 50 bucks or less....

I based the redline's on my testing just data collecting and driving around town.




Cheers (images are when engine is off, which is why some of the metrics seem weird.)


Also, the one thing I am noticing is higher air temps than I would expect compared to my other turbo engines. I am betting this might be a cause of the derate.. Meaning Meth might really change things.... or a better air cooler (intercooler) and Oil Cooler.

Ive been using OBD Fuzion with a VeePeak along with a Snap On Solas Legend for my data, but users here still question how I got the data I post.......

Sponsored

 

[biodiesel]

For reference, here's the hottest oil temperatures I've seen towing on a long mountain pass with my 2020 Ram EcoDiesel. My max tow is normally 63 mph, but I wanted to see how hot I could get the oil/coolant/transmission temps. This is with the A/C on, cruise set at 65 mph, and towing approximately 7,000 lbs.

 

[Rat2Desert]

I have been working for several hours to build out some nice temp dashboards to monitor when you tow. I have them mostly dialed in I think...

Go to Amazon and purchase a VeePeak OBDCheck BLE+
Amazon Link (OBD Scanner)
And on your IOS device download this app. (Purchase the full app (PRO) It's cheap, like 8 bucks)
Car Scanner ELM OBD2 App

Then you can import the dashboards I have worked on by downloading this JSON file to your IOS device, and import it once you setup your car.
JSON File including Dashboard Config
(Settings, Dashboard, Restore Dashboard)

You will quickly be able to see Engine Derates, Fuel Pressure being cut.
Regen State (Passive / Active / None)
Turbo Temps (inlet / outlet)
Coolant / Oil Temps
Fuel Pressure (Demanded vs. Actual)
DPF Inlet Temps
EGT's
BOOST
Trans Temp

There is MINIMAL Lag in the Gagues (like sub 1 sec)
And all of this is your's for about 50 bucks or less....

I based the redline's on my testing just data collecting and driving around town.




Cheers (images are when engine is off, which is why some of the metrics seem weird.)


Also, the one thing I am noticing is higher air temps than I would expect compared to my other turbo engines. I am betting this might be a cause of the derate.. Meaning Meth might really change things.... or a better air cooler (intercooler) and Oil Cooler.

This is amazing, thank you ! I was just wishing for exactly this tool yesterday after a derate. Before I get to the derate, the same car scanner app is available on Android, I have tested already and it works great.

My derate happened in Arizona on the I-10. Not towing, just me and a couple of personal items. 115 OAT, but normal temps for water and oil, ~220 and ~230 respectively. I stopped to grab a coffee, when I stopped I let it run for 5 mins, went inside, came back and started, ran for a couple more mins. As I was 1/2 way down the ramp to the I-10 (2 lane interstate) my speed stalled at 45, obviously derated. A surprise, but I had read of the heat soak issues here and wasn't entirely unprepared. Pulled to the side, let it idle for a couple mins, pulled back out and seemed accelerate fine, but then stalled again at exactly 70. Pulled off at the next exit and drove around some access roads for 10 mins, back on the interstate and all was fine.

What really concerns me is absolutely no warning and no insight at all to what is happening. I completely understand and accept that there are operational limits, there are compromises with this engine/body combo. And I'm OK with some guidelines such as don't shut down, leave it idling in temps over 100 or whatever. But having this happen with no notice is really unsafe. And having no insight as to when it is OK to drive is not acceptable. If it is an intake air setting should be really easy to show a warning on the dash right after starting. Or whatever, plenty of sensors in the engine. And put some notes in the manual, this can't be an unknown issue to Jeep.

Any ideas on the best way to try and get some solutions from Jeep ? My gut is going to a dealer isn't going to be productive as nothing is actually broken. But maybe that is where to start, this is my first new vehicle under warranty, though my 4th Jeep.

I've only had the vehicle (Rubicon) for a bit over a week, I'm overall thrilled with it. I don't mind the heat soak derate as an issue to deal with, I understand the towing cooling limitations (have towed extensively with the previous 3), but I would hope that there's some help from Jeep.

Meanwhile, thanks again @CreepyJeepy for this tool, it will give us the insight needed to avoid the heat soak derate and better towing strategies.

I have more hot weather driving and towing coming up, I'll post more info as I get it.

 

[biodiesel]

Any ideas on the best way to try and get some solutions from Jeep ?

Most likely Jeep will have a software fix for the problem.

 

[Rat2Desert]

Most likely Jeep will have a software fix for the problem.

Yeah, seems like a relatively easy software solution, I hope it is in the pipeline already

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yeah, seems like a relatively easy software solution, I hope it is in the pipeline already

I'd encourage those who have this issue to complain - formally. I'm not sure if NHTSA has a means or way, or if there are other ways (aside from dealer - perhaps Jeep's customer service number?)
I've seen similar complaints on the NHTSA site that were not big safety issues (this could be under the wrong circumstances)

 

[Rat2Desert]

I'd encourage those who have this issue to complain - formally. I'm not sure if NHTSA has a means or way, or if there are other ways (aside from dealer - perhaps Jeep's customer service number?)
I've seen similar complaints on the NHTSA site that were not big safety issues (this could be under the wrong circumstances)

100% could be a safety issue. On the I-10 there is a lot of trucking traffic, it is only 2 lanes, some of the emergency lanes are pretty rough. Fortunately I was mentally prepared for the derate and there wasn't any traffic for a couple miles. I actually thought I had let it cool enough, though that was based on no information. Definitely not shutting down for stops in hot weather from now on.

NHTSA is a good idea. I've already started to reach out to my dealer and Jeep support.

 

[CreepyJeepy]

For reference, here's the hottest oil temperatures I've seen towing on a long mountain pass with my 2020 Ram EcoDiesel. My max tow is normally 63 mph, but I wanted to
Yeah the Gladiators have seen much higher temps. I wish we had these temps, as those temps are

This is amazing, thank you ! I was just wishing for exactly this tool yesterday after a derate. Before I get to the derate, the same car scanner app is available on Android, I have tested already and it works great.

My derate happened in Arizona on the I-10. Not towing, just me and a couple of personal items. 115 OAT, but normal temps for water and oil, ~220 and ~230 respectively. I stopped to grab a coffee, when I stopped I let it run for 5 mins, went inside, came back and started, ran for a couple more mins. As I was 1/2 way down the ramp to the I-10 (2 lane interstate) my speed stalled at 45, obviously derated. A surprise, but I had read of the heat soak issues here and wasn't entirely unprepared. Pulled to the side, let it idle for a couple mins, pulled back out and seemed accelerate fine, but then stalled again at exactly 70. Pulled off at the next exit and drove around some access roads for 10 mins, back on the interstate and all was fine.

What really concerns me is absolutely no warning and no insight at all to what is happening. I completely understand and accept that there are operational limits, there are compromises with this engine/body combo. And I'm OK with some guidelines such as don't shut down, leave it idling in temps over 100 or whatever. But having this happen with no notice is really unsafe. And having no insight as to when it is OK to drive is not acceptable. If it is an intake air setting should be really easy to show a warning on the dash right after starting. Or whatever, plenty of sensors in the engine. And put some notes in the manual, this can't be an unknown issue to Jeep.

Any ideas on the best way to try and get some solutions from Jeep ? My gut is going to a dealer isn't going to be productive as nothing is actually broken. But maybe that is where to start, this is my first new vehicle under warranty, though my 4th Jeep.

I've only had the vehicle (Rubicon) for a bit over a week, I'm overall thrilled with it. I don't mind the heat soak derate as an issue to deal with, I understand the towing cooling limitations (have towed extensively with the previous 3), but I would hope that there's some help from Jeep.

Meanwhile, thanks again @CreepyJeepy for this tool, it will give us the insight needed to avoid the heat soak derate and better towing strategies.

I have more hot weather driving and towing coming up, I'll post more info as I get it.

Awesome! I just made a few tweaks to one of the dashboards.

I also got to monitor an active regen! EGT's and DPF inlet spiked quite high! (normal but it was great to see!)

This is the new Dashboard link, Instead of fuel rail pressure, I changed to a Boost Gauge and 'Actual Torque'

This also has blue lines added for normal ranges. I added one in the boost gauge as staying below 10PSI seems to improve fuel milage... obviously.

The derates are based on if then programatic logic, so determining the IF, determines how we can improve the derate situation.

The more I stare at these numbers and the CSV's I collect (data logging) the more I think a meth kit / intake / taser (fan mod) is going to improve things dramatically...

Once AEM intakes are available (COME ON AEM!) , and I can sort out how and where to install a meth tank. I bet derates can be controlled / reduced dramatically....

New Dash Link

 

[CreepyJeepy]

Awesome! I just made a few tweaks to one of the dashboards.

I also got to monitor an active regen! EGT's and DPF inlet spiked quite high! (normal but it was great to see!)

This is the new Dashboard link, Instead of fuel rail pressure, I changed to a Boost Gauge and 'Actual Torque'

This also has blue lines added for normal ranges. I added one in the boost gauge as staying below 10PSI seems to improve fuel milage... obviously.

The derates are based on if then programatic logic, so determining the IF, determines how we can improve the derate situation.

The more I stare at these numbers and the CSV's I collect (data logging) the more I think a meth kit / intake / taser (fan mod) is going to improve things dramatically...

Once AEM intakes are available (COME ON AEM!) , and I can sort out how and where to install a meth tank. I bet derates can be controlled / reduced dramatically....

New Dash Link

If anybody that can tow a load sometime soon, do so and log the data, (export in CSV (v2 form)) from the APP, we can analyze it, and determine the markers for when a derate occurs.

I am going to hook up my trailer at some point this weekend and drag it up I-70 which will absolutely cause a derate. But having some other data points will help.

 

[CreepyJeepy]

Can you post a picture of the wire and stud so we know where to check on our own vehicles?

thanks,

Jay

Hey there can you post the location of that wire issue please?

 

[biodiesel]

I'm not sure if NHTSA has a means or way

I'm pretty sure the NHTSA isn't going to do anything. Some models of the 2014 - 2016 EcoDiesel received a faulty tone wheel that would delaminate and cause the truck to stall. The repair was that Ram would install a software that causes the truck to detune, but not completely shutoff. The NHTSA approved the fix. Many EcoDiesel owners felt that the repair was still a safety issue, but the software fix satisfied the NHTSA safety requirements.

 

[Rat2Desert]

Awesome! I just made a few tweaks to one of the dashboards.

I also got to monitor an active regen! EGT's and DPF inlet spiked quite high! (normal but it was great to see!)

This is the new Dashboard link, Instead of fuel rail pressure, I changed to a Boost Gauge and 'Actual Torque'

This also has blue lines added for normal ranges. I added one in the boost gauge as staying below 10PSI seems to improve fuel milage... obviously.

The derates are based on if then programatic logic, so determining the IF, determines how we can improve the derate situation.

The more I stare at these numbers and the CSV's I collect (data logging) the more I think a meth kit / intake / taser (fan mod) is going to improve things dramatically...

Once AEM intakes are available (COME ON AEM!) , and I can sort out how and where to install a meth tank. I bet derates can be controlled / reduced dramatically....

New Dash Link

Yeah, I've started to think of testing parameters and procedures to come up with the IF conditions. I'd be interested to hear what you've been doing. I'll be in Phoenix for 10 days and have some good conditions available.

I agree there have to be some ways to improve and manage the derates, really glad you started this thread to get us all thinking

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'm pretty sure the NHTSA isn't going to do anything. Some models of the 2014 - 2016 EcoDiesel received a faulty tone wheel that would delaminate and cause the truck to stall. The repair was that Ram would install a software that causes the truck to detune, but not completely shutoff. The NHTSA approved the fix. Many EcoDiesel owners felt that the repair was still a safety issue, but the software fix satisfied the NHTSA safety requirements.

The point isn't for them to do anything - but they DO track customer complaints.

 

[CreepyJeepy]

Ok! Update to the dashboards a bit more including soot level, and intake temps.

I have noticed after the Jeep shuts down engine at traffic lights intake temps jump way up.

I’m betting many of the derates are air cooler heat soak.

I am going to do some research on meth injection / using washer tank under hood.

New dash’s

 

[CreepyJeepy]

Went and pulled some data logs while towing this AM. These numbers will SHOCK any diesel owner... I totally understand what is happening now, and why we are all seeing different oil / coolant numbers when derates happening.

Here was the test.

1. Load up my camper and truck and take it to a scale to get an accurate measurement of weights. With the weight distribution hitch, myself, empty bed, basic tools, full tanks of DEF / Fuel.

1. Jeep Weight : 6240 LB (close to max payload, with 1 person, and no camping gear in bed!)
2. Trailer Weight: 3140 LB (about 50% of what it should be able to safely move)
3. Trailer Frontal Area: 48ft apx...

(I have the PDF for the weights from a CAT scale if anybody is interested)
**** (This has a weight distribution hitch involved some some of the trailer weight will be transfered to the truck. Likely 450lbs with the way I have things setup)

2. Drive around town, then up i70 (7% grade starting at 5300ish ft up to evergreen 7700ft apx), capture a ton of details via OBD.

Important details.

1. Air Temp 72
2. 5th Gear holding 2100(ish) rpm
3. 55mph
4. 40-70% engine torque demand was held (not pedal position, but demanded engine torque metric (from OBD))
5. Throttle pedal was about 20-40% position.
6. DPF Soot Load was about 45% (fine)
7. DPF regen status was 0, meaning not in a regen state.

Findings.

Near meltdown EGT's sustained... During the incline min EGT was 1090, max was 1590!!!!

The big hill climb started at about 8:43, with another smaller hill that was close to the 8:26 mark.

These high EGT's melt piston's, valves, etc. These high temps are UNACCEPTABLE, any diesel builder will tell you, this is an Engine Killer situation. Hope these Italians used titanium for valves and pistons....

I was in the slow lane, AC OFF. I was driving VERY easy, there was plenty of room left I could have pushed a lot harder.

I also tracked Oil / Coolant temps, but again these are not my main concern anymore.... frankly they are high, but I am not concerned with either of these.

High of 255 oil, and 242 Coolant. Seems hot but these are fine.....

Possible solutions.

1. Rework Intake / Exhaust (maybe a larger DPF?, DPF back exhaust / intake?)
2. Install a more efficient bigger turbo with less resistance.
3. Water/Meth Injection

I think Water/Meth Injection is the answer here while towing....

If anybody knows a respected Diesel mechanic (Denver Area), that can work out a BOLT ON, (meaning no permanent holes in my intake system) in case I need warranty work... and install a AEM Water/Meth Injection Kit on my truck I would be willing to pay a fair amount, and will test it again.. I can't find a bolt on kit for this engine anywhere....

I am not worried about the power side of the Meth injection at all, but the water element is really needed here to cool EGT's.....

Sponsored