Cracked both rear sway bar end link mounts. Back plate? Weld?

[ShadowsPapa]

Doesn't matter what the front wheels or axle is doing - it's the rear. The front could be level.
The way these articulate you are not only pulling the link fore and aft, but left and right as well. As one end of the axle goes up, the other goes down but not straight down, it tilts or swings in at the bottom. They really should have had a ball type joint at the top, not that bushing that allows very very limited movement left and right (or even fore and aft because the bushing is limited in twist, bonded to the shell and core sleeves).
The fronts survive because they can move or pivot more freely at the anchor points due to the joint.
But the fronts have nothing to do with the rears - the front axle could be level, it's still a problem with the rear.

Sponsored

 

[Rusty PW]

Doesn't matter what the front wheels or axle is doing - it's the rear. The front could be level.
The way these articulate you are not only pulling the link fore and aft, but left and right as well. As one end of the axle goes up, the other goes down but not straight down, it tilts or swings in at the bottom. They really should have had a ball type joint at the top, not that bushing that allows very very limited movement left and right (or even fore and aft because the bushing is limited in twist, bonded to the shell and core sleeves).
The fronts survive because they can move or pivot more freely at the anchor points due to the joint.
But the fronts have nothing to do with the rears - the front axle could be level, it's still a problem with the rear.

I'm using that as an example. The front has everything to do with the rear. You be surprised. You ever corner balanced a car?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'm using that as an example. The front has everything to do with the rear. You be surprised. You ever corner balanced a car?

I've worked with and on cars and trucks for 50 years.........

You can fully articulate the rear on these with the front level. It's how I swapped rear springs, front on the ground, had it flexed literally to the max (and then some, I disconnected the shocks)
I had one side shoved up as far as it could possibly go and the other hanging so far down it was stressing the brake line so I know these can fully articulate either end without the other end being twisted.

Here are some the opposite way -
Back sitting pretty level, front fully extended - you can do the opposite and have the rear, say one wheel up on a rock and the other down in a hole, maxed out, but the front still have both feet firmly planted - you'd be stressing those small mounting tabs a lot.

In the pics above the rear axle doesn't have much "tilt" to it, not a lot of difference. If you turned it around the front would be reasonably level, both tires on the ground but the rear left hanging.
Say if he was going down and not coming up, the front wheels would be over the rock on more even ground and one of the rears would be left hanging in the air.

I can also grab images - of the rear maxed out at the far end of shock travel and the front hardly tipped. All it takes is a rear wheel up on a rock and the other hanging over a hole but the front can be fairly level - and you have stressed those mounting tabs to the max.

 

[jsalbre]

Another possibility I hadn’t thought about: On a stock suspension the shocks limit the travel. If you install a lift and shocks that have longer travel, even with longer sway bar links the swaybar itself may now be the limiting factor. It can only handle as much travel as the length of the sway bar arms from the axle. Once you exceed that then the axle is hanging from the swaybar link.

 

[Renegade]

Another possibility I hadn’t thought about: On a stock suspension the shocks limit the travel. If you install a lift and shocks that have longer travel, even with longer sway bar links the swaybar itself may now be the limiting factor. It can only handle as much travel as the length of the sway bar arms from the axle. Once you exceed that then the axle is hanging from the swaybar link.

It seems I've heard that somewhere before...

 

[jsalbre]

It seems I've heard that somewhere before...

I didn’t see that point brought up in this or any of the other threads on the topic. I’m not referring to the length of the swaybar links, but the length of the arms on the swaybar itself.

 

[Rusty PW]

I've worked with and on cars and trucks for 50 years.........

You can fully articulate the rear on these with the front level. It's how I swapped rear springs, front on the ground, had it flexed literally to the max (and then some, I disconnected the shocks)
I had one side shoved up as far as it could possibly go and the other hanging so far down it was stressing the brake line so I know these can fully articulate either end without the other end being twisted.

Here are some the opposite way -
Back sitting pretty level, front fully extended - you can do the opposite and have the rear, say one wheel up on a rock and the other down in a hole, maxed out, but the front still have both feet firmly planted - you'd be stressing those small mounting tabs a lot.

In the pics above the rear axle doesn't have much "tilt" to it, not a lot of difference. If you turned it around the front would be reasonably level, both tires on the ground but the rear left hanging.
Say if he was going down and not coming up, the front wheels would be over the rock on more even ground and one of the rears would be left hanging in the air.

I can also grab images - of the rear maxed out at the far end of shock travel and the front hardly tipped. All it takes is a rear wheel up on a rock and the other hanging over a hole but the front can be fairly level - and you have stressed those mounting tabs to the max.

I get what you are saying. From my experience with race cars. When you are making suspension adjustments. One of the things you use are adjustable end links on the sway bars. The car is sitting on weight scales under each tire. By adjusting the end links by making them longer or shorter. you can watch the weight move on the scales. Depending on the size of the bar. I've seen 700 lbs being applied to one rear wheel just by adjusting the front bar.

Oh, I used to be a ASE MasterTech. With degrees in Mechanical and Welding engineering. Raced in SCCA. Off-roading since I was 16. I'm now 65.

 

[Rusty PW]

When I take delivery of my JTRD. I'm going under it and inspect all of the bracket welds. It my OCD about others welding. Thinking I may get the TIG welder out and throw a bead of weld around the threaded insert.

 

[Renegade]

I didn’t see that point brought up in this or any of the other threads on the topic. I’m not referring to the length of the swaybar links, but the length of the arms on the swaybar itself.

I understand what you are saying now, but that would require an entire swaybar replacement, and then link relocation. The stock swaybar itself should be fine if the links are the correct length (and the bracket itself holds up).

 

[Rusty PW]

Looking at the brackets. The holes in them look like they have been punched out and not drilled. There is not enough metal between the edge of the hole and the edge of the bracket. The punching put stress in that area. If it was drilled. It would be less of a concern. But for production, punching is quick and cheap.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I understand what you are saying now, but that would require an entire swaybar replacement, and then link relocation. The stock swaybar itself should be fine if the links are the correct length (and the bracket itself holds up).

LOL - your last sentence being a rather key point HAHA


By the way - for lurkers - I got a glimpse of Jeeps in the Middle East when I was in Israel. Those people love their Jeeps, there are a lot of Jeeps over there and they have a club "Jeep Club Israel" - found that out when I walked by a very nice Wrangler with a bumper sticker on the back that said, ironically "Jeep Club Israel" in English.

They make no autos or trucks there - EVERY car, every truck, every Jeep, every single part has to be imported. But those people hold nothing back when taking their Jeeps out for fun (as the photos may indicate)

 

[jac04]

When I take delivery of my JTRD. I'm going under it and inspect all of the bracket welds. It my OCD about others welding. Thinking I may get the TIG welder out and throw a bead of weld around the threaded insert.

Prepare to be horrified at the quality of the welds in general.

Edit:
I guess I should use the term "cosmetics" instead of "quality" in the above statement.
The welds on my JTM certainly aren't bad quality like those on the early JLs. But, If you are a welder, you will find the welds appear acceptable for their purpose, but they are certainly not appealing to the trained welder eye.

 

[bleda2002]

Another possibility I hadn’t thought about: On a stock suspension the shocks limit the travel. If you install a lift and shocks that have longer travel, even with longer sway bar links the swaybar itself may now be the limiting factor. It can only handle as much travel as the length of the sway bar arms from the axle. Once you exceed that then the axle is hanging from the swaybar link.

This is mainly the issue, is that the shocks are longer and the sway bar arms + links are too short and are now the droop limiting component of the axle. People would really benefit from limiting straps.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Looking at the brackets. The holes in them look like they have been punched out and not drilled. There is not enough metal between the edge of the hole and the edge of the bracket. The punching put stress in that area. If it was drilled. It would be less of a concern. But for production, punching is quick and cheap.

Yup. There's not a lot of material there, and when these things flex, no matter how the rear is flexed, when it's at limits, there are stresses that are not exactly straight down or straight up. There are angular pulls as well. The more I look - the more concerned I am about lifted Jeeps and things not being exactly right as far as shocks, and sway bar links.
That axle swings down and to the side a bit, that bushing in the stock type link is going to resist turning, and that bolt sticks out, not supported on the head end.

Prepare to be horrified at the quality of the welds in general.

I can't say anything good or bad about them yet - but I do wonder - since these frames and perhaps some other structural pieces, are high strength steel, and knowing that high strength steel is a different formulation and needs DIFFERENT welding materials and techniques - any thoughts as to if that's playing a role anywhere?

 

[jac04]

I can't say anything good or bad about them yet...

Yeah, as you were typing I actually did a quick edit of my post to clarify what I meant.

Sponsored