Is selec track (or full time 4WD) inherently bad or weaker?

[NachoRuby]

Its also beneficial if you have a bit of a heavy foot in the rain. Around town if I'm pulling out onto a Main Street from a side street I can punch it and the truck just goes. In 2H, the inside rear wheel begins to slip and the traction control pulls power. 4A eliminates all that drama. This is a situation where it helps you when even 4H won't help.

It sounds like a pretty specific use case, but in general if you want to turn and accelerate, it helps.

100% agree on the rain. In 2wd, the JT leaves something to be desired when accelerating from a stop in the wet, and moreso while turning in the wet. That's where I loved that Subaru symmetrical AWD in the STI. Still, in really sloppy rain, I've used 4Hi to get out of tricky situations. I'll shift it into 4 hi if I'm at a stop sign on a high speed road in the sloppy rain, and take off. Then shift back into 2wd once I've made it across the road, because I don't want to spin across 4 lanes of traffic. But mine is also a very specific situation. Once again, make no mistake, I want 4auto as an option, and wish it were offered on my combination. But it isn't, so I get to shift two levers.

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[stickshifter]

You are very right and very wrong.

There is no substitute for snow tires. And having snows combined with stability control will reduce the benefit of AWD.

But until you have driven a vehicle with a good AWD system that is rolling on real snow tires you haven't experienced what good snow traction is.

My wife's AWD Volvo is better in the snow than My Mojave is on the factory Wildpeaks. Unfortunately the Nokians I want are sold out for the winter. So I wait until next summer. And buy them then.

^ This is 100% true. I've driven part-time four-wheel drive vehicles for 40 years, shifting in and out of 4-wheel drive using a manual transfer case. Mostly Jeep and Toyota. I love these vehicles and currently there are three in our driveway. But we've also owned a couple of Audi quattro vehicles, and with snow tires, there is no comparison to the Jeeps & trucks in winter conditions. Wearing good winter tires (Nokian, Blizzak, etc.), a good all-wheel drive vehicle provides unbeatable winter traction: acceleration, cornering, and - critically - braking. Test after test show that stopping distance is much much shorter on snow and ice in vehicles with true winter tires. Where the Audi falls short, is when the snow gets deep. So the best of both worlds - for those who drive a lot in winter conditions - is to get a true four-wheel drive with good ground clearance, but one that also has the "Auto" or "All-Wheel" drive option, and slap on some good winter tires!

A rare day down on the plains (5,500 feet) and I can give it a wash. Otherwise, its six months of winter living at 8,500 feet.

 

[saintpauljeff]

It sounds like a pretty specific use case, but in general if you want to turn and accelerate, it helps.

this exactly happened to me; I was stuck trying to turn right from my snow/ice cover alley way to the mostly bare boulevard... had to back up with 4H engaged and then retry in 2H with more speed

you guys must have some crazy rainstorms, I've did not have any issues in the rain with the default AT tire that came on the Max Tow trim

 

[NachoRuby]

this exactly happened to me; I was stuck trying to turn right from my snow/ice cover alley way to the mostly bare boulevard... had to back up with 4H engaged and then retry in 2H with more speed

you guys must have some crazy rainstorms, I've did not have any issues in the rain with the default AT tire that came on the Max Tow trim

Mid-Atlantic and northeast folks will get some hurricanes or the remnants of them in late summer and early fall. The leftover remnants just kind of sit there for like a week at a time, and leave just in time for the next one. And in spring, it just pours like crazy all the time.
Also, Remember the NYC flooding last year? Everyone always talks Seattle, but they aren't the only ones with a ton of rain. Can't complain too much, after going to Florida a few times, and being originally from TX, though.

 

[NachoRuby]

Got it.

Yes, no amount of mechanical wizardry can make up for poor tire to road interface. I used to run track days with my Subaru STi. It wore R type summer tires most of the year, though not the semi-slicks you see now.

I got caught out in very slightly snowy conditions a couple of times and it was terrifying.

With a set of Michelin Arctic Alpens it was a beast.

I remember the first time I drove my first Subaru wagon in the snow. I had a set. of regular but skinny all seasons on it. I felt invincible charging up my driveway. Then I slid into the back yard when I went charging down it. My first lesson that 4wd doesn't help you stop. Ha.

I had to drive my STI on summers once in snow because my wife took our old TJ to work with the intention of me taking her dart when it was time for me to go. It was an early spring snowstorm so it took us by surprise, and we had literally just swapped my summers back on the week before (rookie mistake).

Well, the dart on all seasons wouldn't make it out of the driveway after 30 minutes of trying, thanks to the open differential and all seasons. I fired up the sti, and away (slowly) I went. It was no fun at all, but I couldn't get over how well that Subaru with 3 LSDs, including lockable center diff, did on summer tires in the snow, compared to the dart on all seasons. I took it real slow, but it was quite impressive. Also not ideal. The dart was absolutely the worst car I ever owned in the winter. It wasn't even that much snow. And yes, I did end up swapping my snow rated all-weathers back on the STi for another 3 weeks after that.

 

[NC_Overland]

I didn't realize until I went and looked it up, the JT is surprisingly balanced F/R on axle loads, which explains the strangely effective snow performance!

Exactly! The best Gladiator design element that’s rarely talked about!

 

[NC_Overland]

Reality is, I should probably just leave it in for auto all the time; but I Try to stay in 2WD for the majority of my trips.

If you don’t care about mpg. When I had the the same transfer case in my 3.6l/8 speed canyon I literally got almost 100 miles less per tank when I left it in auto 4wd. It was a huge difference in mpg.

 

[NC_Overland]

Well, the dart on all seasons wouldn't make it out of the driveway after 30 minutes of trying, thanks to the open differential and all seasons. I fired up the sti, and away (slowly) I went. It was no fun at all, but I couldn't get over how well that Subaru with 3 LSDs, including lockable center diff, did on summer tires in the snow, compared to the dart on all seasons. I took it real slow, but it was quite impressive. Also not ideal. The dart was absolutely the worst car I ever owned in the winter. It wasn't even that much snow. And yes, I did end up swapping my snow rated all-weathers back on the STi for another 3 weeks after that.

One of my Audis, 2015 S3, came with 235/35/19 Continental summer tires on it new from the factory. I used it for a winter with those tires. I didn’t notice a huge drop off in performance with cold temps, but they were super sketchy in the snow and ice. That car had a great awd system and it would get the job done, but stopping could be so sketchy. I drove the hell out of that car and I wore out those tires at 16k miles. Well, they were 4/32 tread and I took it to VIR and finished them off. I replaced them with Continental DWS 06s and it was night and day difference. That car was instantly almost as good in the snow as my A4 that had the traditional Audi longitudal engine lay out and a real full time awd system that made Quattro famous. I really couldn’t tell much difference, but the S3 was an absolute freaking blast in the snow after the DWS tires. That car was a blast period, but the snow was so much freaking fun in that car.

 

[NC_Overland]

100% agree on the rain. In 2wd, the JT leaves something to be desired when accelerating from a stop in the wet, and moreso while turning in the wet. That's where I loved that Subaru symmetrical AWD in the STI. Still, in really sloppy rain, I've used 4Hi to get out of tricky situations. I'll shift it into 4 hi if I'm at a stop sign on a high speed road in the sloppy rain, and take off. Then shift back into 2wd once I've made it across the road, because I don't want to spin across 4 lanes of traffic. But mine is also a very specific situation. Once again, make no mistake, I want 4auto as an option, and wish it were offered on my combination. But it isn't, so I get to shift two levers.

What tires are you running? It makes a huge difference. My OEM all seasons were really good in the wet, but brand new. My Revo 3s have been fantastic in the same. Good with wet all around. At 30k miles, occasionally they’ll spin a little bit off the line, but it’s because of how good to traction these get and the tires I’ve had I don’t take it easy off the line at all in the rain. I’ve never had any issues turning.

fulltime 4wd would have been nice last week when I was pulling a trailer on semi slushy roads. It surprised me and started spinning off the line or low speed acceleration a few times. Pulling a trailer does make it a lot more prone to spinning the tires. I intentionally didn’t have anything in the bed because of a fairly heavy tongue weight.

 

[stickshifter]

I should own stock in Nokian. Just picked these up for the truck four days ago:

 

[NC_Overland]

I’ve never heard anyone say anything bad about Nokian.

 

[NachoRuby]

What tires are you running? It makes a huge difference.

I'm running Revo-3s as well. When I think about it, my rain struggles were on the mud terrains my jeep came with. I haven't had any issues since I swapped over to the revos, but it's only been maybe 3 months. The mud terrains were good at first. But at about 10000 miles, they were a little more squirrelly than I was comfortable when it was wet. Some of the siping was already starting to wear off. I got them off before winter. Wasn't willing to risk it without full siping.

 

[NC_Overland]

I'm running Revo-3s as well. When I think about it, my rain struggles were on the mud terrains my jeep came with. I haven't had any issues since I swapped over to the revos, but it's only been maybe 3 months. The mud terrains were good at first. But at about 10000 miles, they were a little more squirrelly than I was comfortable when it was wet. Some of the siping was already starting to wear off. I got them off before winter. Wasn't willing to risk it without full siping.

My OEM BFGs on my JKU Rubicon had no siping even when new. They were scary in the CO snow.

 

[AMack6]

I’ve never heard anyone say anything bad about Nokian.

Do we know when the best time is to try to get them? I read someone further up in this thread mention buying them in the summer?

 

[stickshifter]

Do we know when the best time is to try to get them? I read someone further up in this thread mention buying them in the summer?

October should be fine, even mid-November. I just got lucky and found a set last week - early January - but that is unusual (I could have kept driving on my old ones, but decided to upgrade). Supplies of Nokian winter tires tend to run out by mid or late December - and that was true even before supply chains tightened up.

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