Is selec track (or full time 4WD) inherently bad or weaker?

[stickshifter]

I’ve never heard anyone say anything bad about Nokian.

When new, Blizzaks are awesome, and give great traction on ice without using studs. But in my experience (for what its worth), Blizzaks lose their awesome grip sometime in their second season (depending on miles driven). The tread still has depth, but it seems like the really sticky rubber is worn down. I think Blizzaks provide better ice traction than non-studded Nokians during that first season or so, but after that, I'd take the Nokians. If you buy a studded Nokian, I think they are better than the Blizzaks in season 1, 2, or 3. Not everyone will agree with me, but that's my experience.

There are a lot of other winter tires available, at different price points and with different goals: some try to maximize winter traction, others try to provide good winter traction while also trying to preserve better dry-road handling. For example, Michelin, Dunlop, and Pirelli all make good high-end winter tires that are more biased to performance on dry roads as opposed to maximizing performance on snow and ice. I often see these on German sports cars at the ski resorts.

Nokian also makes a range of winter tires - some sportier, some more traction-focused. Some of their studded tires have so many studs that you sound like a tank rolling down the road, but I swear you can drive up a tree with those things.

If you are shopping for a Gladiator or some other mid-size truck or SUV, you probably want to look at the Hakkapeliitta LT3. My wife runs them without studs on her 4Runner; she loves the traction of the studs, but hates the noise, and the un-studded tires do great on her vehicle. I prefer the studded LT3 on our pickup trucks, because there is so little weight over the rear tires.

I run the Hakkapeliitta 9, studded, on the Audi, which is serious overkill. I could definitely run a non-studded tire. But damn, when the roads are icy or snow-pack, the car is like a snow leopard! The combo of low center of gravity, great suspension, quattro all-wheel drive, and studded Hakkas is unbeatable. If we didn't have a lot of un-plowed roads to bash through we'd never drive anything else. We always end up high-centered and shoveling out of unplowed trailheads when we take the Audi on winter road trips. Hard to find the perfect vehicle. I think a Gladiator with the All-Wheel drive option, running a good winter tire, would be an awesome winter vehicle!

Audi RS6, Nokian tires, ice speed record: 209 mph. A little silly, but still kinda cool:

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[Wyofuy069]

When new, Blizzaks are awesome, and give great traction on ice without using studs. But in my experience (for what its worth), Blizzaks lose their awesome grip sometime in their second season (depending on miles driven). The tread still has depth, but it seems like the really sticky rubber is worn down. I think Blizzaks provide better ice traction than non-studded Nokians during that first season or so, but after that, I'd take the Nokians. If you buy a studded Nokian, I think they are better than the Blizzaks in season 1, 2, or 3. Not everyone will agree with me, but that's my experience.

There are a lot of other winter tires available, at different price points and with different goals: some try to maximize winter traction, others try to provide good winter traction while also trying to preserve better dry-road handling. For example, Michelin, Dunlop, and Pirelli all make good high-end winter tires that are more biased to performance on dry roads as opposed to maximizing performance on snow and ice. I often see these on German sports cars at the ski resorts.

Nokian also makes a range of winter tires - some sportier, some more traction-focused. Some of their studded tires have so many studs that you sound like a tank rolling down the road, but I swear you can drive up a tree with those things.

If you are shopping for a Gladiator or some other mid-size truck or SUV, you probably want to look at the Hakkapeliitta LT3. My wife runs them without studs on her 4Runner; she loves the traction of the studs, but hates the noise, and the un-studded tires do great on her vehicle. I prefer the studded LT3 on our pickup trucks, because there is so little weight over the rear tires.

I run the Hakkapeliitta 9, studded, on the Audi, which is serious overkill. I could definitely run a non-studded tire. But damn, when the roads are icy or snow-pack, the car is like a snow leopard! The combo of low center of gravity, great suspension, quattro all-wheel drive, and studded Hakkas is unbeatable. If we didn't have a lot of un-plowed roads to bash through we'd never drive anything else. We always end up high-centered and shoveling out of unplowed trailheads when we take the Audi on winter road trips. Hard to find the perfect vehicle. I think a Gladiator with the All-Wheel drive option, running a good winter tire, would be an awesome winter vehicle!

Audi RS6, Nokian tires, ice speed record: 209 mph. A little silly, but still kinda cool:

Everything you said is 100% correct. Love the LT3 studded Hakkapeliitta. Best snow tire in the world.

 

[Savage1]

55k plus? Got my overland cheaper and for a 2020 it was loaded. You must be considering only msrp for rubicon etc.

Not saying you have to spend that much but when you walk through a lot and so many will have every option BUT full time 4WD

 

[Labswine]

Yes, for ONE season, the Blizzaks are great. After that, just another snow tire.

If I recall, they actually put ground up walnut shells in the outer layer of rubber to give it that famous grip. Once that outer is worn away, so are the walnut shells and the extra traction goes buh-bye.

 

[Josh00333]

Back to the OP's original question. Yes Selec Trac is great and it's a rare option, for only 600$$$.

When I shopped for my Jeep I read every thing. With Selec you get that awd option like Subaru (or any other) that's great form snow, dry, wet mixed etc. While 4wd may work beter in true snow (you still have the option) it's not nearly as good in mixed conditions or having to shift in and out. Take a 400 mile trip crossing 5-6 snow passes, I'll take awd every day.

To your durability Q, the drive line is basically the same. W Selec having cv joints. Which are stronger then u-joints of the 4wd. But come w the maintenance of the boot.

Over all it was one of the required options for me, I found one 400 miles away built out the way I wanted.

 

[NachoRuby]

Back to the OP's original question. Yes Selec Trac is great and it's a rare option, for only 600$$$.

When I shopped for my Jeep I read every thing. With Selec you get that awd option like Subaru (or any other) that's great form snow, dry, wet mixed etc. While 4wd may work beter in true snow (you still have the option) it's not nearly as good in mixed conditions or having to shift in and out. Take a 400 mile trip crossing 5-6 snow passes, I'll take awd every day.

I think we all would. The problem is it's not on all combinations, for any amount of money. Hopefully that'll change one day. Doubtful. So the rest make do, the same as jeeps have done since the beginning of jeep-dom. So yes, that means switching back and forth several times on a trip.

 

[atxatxatx]

October should be fine, even mid-November. I just got lucky and found a set last week - early January - but that is unusual (I could have kept driving on my old ones, but decided to upgrade). Supplies of Nokian winter tires tend to run out by mid or late December - and that was true even before supply chains tightened up.

Yup that sounds about right.

I picked up a set of extra OEM wheels recently and plan to fit Nokian's to them, I'll start searching for a set around Sep later this year to have for next winter

 

[RichDSport]

I’m going for Rock-Trac 4 Auto Transfer case. I‘ve been spoiled by the AWD with snow mode of the Cherokee TH. When driving a car with only part-time, I find I’m in 2wd mode a lot in mixed conditions, which isn’t ideal. Of course Part time is fine—I’ve had it on my Ranger and XJ, but AWD is just easier on longer snowy trips in twisty or changing conditions. At least with the Ranger, it’s just a turn knob to switch modes. Transfer case levers are more finicky I find.

 

[ecidiego]

I think the reason dealers don't order them is because it says Full Time 4WD....at least it used to..and people think of that as the old school seventies meaning of that. Meaning ALWAYS in 4wd period. Needs marketed as selectable AWD.

 

[dcmdon]

Everything you said is 100% correct. Love the LT3 studded Hakkapeliitta. Best snow tire in the world.

If I remember right, the LT3s use stainless steel studs rather than the hardened steel that have traditionally been used, for its corrosion resistance.

How are your studs wearing? How many miles do you have on them?

Yes, for ONE season, the Blizzaks are great. After that, just another snow tire.

If I recall, they actually put ground up walnut shells in the outer layer of rubber to give it that famous grip. Once that outer is worn away, so are the walnut shells and the extra traction goes buh-bye.

I don't know about the Blizzaks but most modern snow tires add extra silica (finely ground sand) to the rubber that is in the tread. This is the secret sauce that makes winter tire rubber actually stick to snow and ice in a way that's over and above the extra grip provided by a heavily sided tread pattern and soft rubber compound.

The Blizzak was revolutionary when it came out. it was the first modern snow tire. Prior to that snows didn't look a whole heck of a lot different from mud tires.

re Nokians

I started looking in Nov and they would occasionally pop up on simpletire.com for less than a day then be sold out for a week. At least in the size I was looking for. (315/70-17). I finally ordered a set and had them shipped to my NH address which triggered a "fraud alert" on my CC. They never shipped and they cancelled my order without contacting me. I'm annoyed.

But less so after today. It was my first time on hard packed snow and ice and the stock Falken's are acceptable.

 

[dcmdon]

One extra SelecTrac bonus.

You can use Offroad+ on the road!!.

I'm not sure what that actually means yet. But it works fine.

I was able to play with it on my icy street today at low speeds. Traction control is indeed disabled.

Offroad+ is supposed to do some other stuff with shift points and throttle mapping. I'll play with that tomorrow when I'm moving faster. But I was surprised that it allowed this.

 

[Hootbro]

Bought my on the lot 2021 Willys with Select-Trac and have come to appreciate it last week in our first snow road conditions. Was not shopping specifically for that option and not the primary reason I bought it but am happy to have it.

 

[calicorks]

Hey guys,
Great board you have here. It’s nice to see people be able to disagree and still act like adults.
So, total rookie here but I think I’m getting close to pulling the trigger. I’ve narrowed it down to a Mojave or Rubicon. Still not sure if I’m going new or a damn close used one. From the start I had the full time 4WD in my head as being one of the options I had to have. Just made sense to me if you’re anywhere that gets snow. (In my uninformed mind).
I’ve looked at hundreds of vehicles online new and used and have literally seen it on probably 5 or less.
With it being such a cheap option why do people stay away from it?

I was in the same boat your in. It came down to how I was going to use my truck. I love the Mojave but I went Rubicon. Why? I won’t be doing anything fast in the desert, and I wanted a capable rig that will get me anywhere. I watched the Mojave try to rock crawl and it can hang, but not having a front locker hurts. Then again, the ride with a Rubicon is bumper than a Mojave. Both are great, it’s just what are YOU going to do. Also I’d go new. You get better APR, and you never know what some did with a used one. If you can’t find a new one, just order it. Worth the wait.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If you don’t care about mpg. When I had the the same transfer case in my 3.6l/8 speed canyon I literally got almost 100 miles less per tank when I left it in auto 4wd. It was a huge difference in mpg.

Different vehicle but in the 1980s AMC found that having "Selectdrive" vs. full time 4 wheel drive made LESS THAN 1 mpg difference in the Eagle wagon.
In other words, they found no reason to leave the switching system in place, got rid of the fad and made it an always all wheel drive vehicle and didn't even lose 1 mpg.

 

[NC_Overland]

Different vehicle but in the 1980s AMC found that having "Selectdrive" vs. full time 4 wheel drive made LESS THAN 1 mpg difference in the Eagle wagon.
In other words, they found no reason to leave the switching system in place, got rid of the fad and made it an always all wheel drive vehicle and didn't even lose 1 mpg.

I’m not sure why it made such a big impact on that truck.

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