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Is selec track (or full time 4WD) inherently bad or weaker?

Lost Cosmonaut

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The 4A mode seems great, but I bought my '19 2nd Gen Raptor because it had a 4A mode and I had nothing but problems with it, the hubs kept grenading themselves and it wouldn't go in to any 4 wheel mode and would make whirring/grinding noises whenever you drove it, even in 2WD. And getting the dealer to track down the problems and fix them properly was always a pain. When I bought my Gladiator, I knew about the new SelecTrac Gladiator but when I saw pictures of the wimpy CVs verses the big beefy knuckles of the standard system and thought back to the problems I had with my Raptor, I just decided to go with the regular system. Yes, it sucks when it's patchy ice/snow with dry pavement, which we get a lot around here, but I just leave it in 2WD and have no problem. The Gladiator has a surprising amount of grip even in 2WD, especially with a little bit of a load in the back.

I don't regret my decision at all. We've had one of the worst winters we've had in 25 years here and the Jeep has been a trooper through everything I've thrown at it, and I don't regret not having a 4A mode.
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The 4A mode seems great, but I bought my '19 2nd Gen Raptor because it had a 4A mode and I had nothing but problems with it, the hubs kept grenading themselves and it wouldn't go in to any 4 wheel mode and would make whirring/grinding noises whenever you drove it, even in 2WD. And getting the dealer to track down the problems and fix them properly was always a pain. When I bought my Gladiator, I knew about the new SelecTrac Gladiator but when I saw pictures of the wimpy CVs verses the big beefy knuckles of the standard system and thought back to the problems I had with my Raptor, I just decided to go with the regular system. Yes, it sucks when it's patchy ice/snow with dry pavement, which we get a lot around here, but I just leave it in 2WD and have no problem. The Gladiator has a surprising amount of grip even in 2WD, especially with a little bit of a load in the back.

I don't regret my decision at all. We've had one of the worst winters we've had in 25 years here and the Jeep has been a trooper through everything I've thrown at it, and I don't regret not having a 4A mode.
I'm not kicking myself that I don't have it, but I certainly wish that I did have it, and I would have required it if it were available on my jeep. But otherwise, I've had the standard style of 4wd and AWD before. Either way, I make it work. No biggie, but if I could, for $600, I'd have gotten it.
It's so cheap there's no reason not to, since there haven't been a bunch of failures.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I'm not kicking myself that I don't have it, but I certainly wish that I did have it, and I would have required it if it were available on my jeep. But otherwise, I've had the standard style of 4wd and AWD before. Either way, I make it work. No biggie, but if I could, for $600, I'd have gotten it.
It's so cheap there's no reason not to, since there haven't been a bunch of failures.
Yeah - ^^^^ - what he said.
I doubt you see a bunch of failures, either. This is the same sort of systems others have used for years. Chevy had auto-mode transfer cases for years.
 

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The GM AWD on the H2 was full-time only, not sure how their pickups are setup. Great system and saving 5% of mileage by having a 2WD mode would have been worthless, so it made sense they did it that way.

I don't know how that truck is doing now, but the first 100K miles the TC and half-shafts were solid. The two transmission rebuilds and then a full factory crate replacement transmission were NOT OK!!

I like the concept of the electronic clutch more, lighter and simpler, I think Jeep did good on this one.

Yeah - ^^^^ - what he said.
I doubt you see a bunch of failures, either. This is the same sort of systems others have used for years. Chevy had auto-mode transfer cases for years.
 

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I put the Selec-Trac to good use today here in Ohio. Where I live, we have a lot of open fields and a lot of wind. So as you drive, you’ll have perfectly clear road, then suddenly the drift gets you. 4A helps with that tremendously. Yes, I could just reach down and shift as needed, but for the extra $695 why?
It also comes in handy when I turn off the mostly clear main road and into my subdivision which is like a cross country skiing course because they never seem to plow it!
 

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The GM AWD on the H2 was full-time only, not sure how their pickups are setup. Great system and saving 5% of mileage by having a 2WD mode would have been worthless, so it made sense they did it that way.

I don't know how that truck is doing now, but the first 100K miles the TC and half-shafts were solid. The two transmission rebuilds and then a full factory crate replacement transmission were NOT OK!!

I like the concept of the electronic clutch more, lighter and simpler, I think Jeep did good on this one.
There was auto-mode in the 2011 Silverado I had. I left it there most of the time and it never ever got stuck.
I did put it in part time 4H mode to pull my trailer out through snow one time (all up hill, gravel and snow) and when I was pulling hard and knew it needed 4 wheel drive to move. Never a sign or trouble, no odd sounds, quiet and smooth. It simply worked.
 

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What sucks is that car gurus and auto trader don't have it as a filter so you have to open every damn one and read it lol
lol yeah I hate that too. I see you've figured out the only real way to tell. So dumb:
That’s true, I’ve noticed I’ve had to look at the picture of the transfer case lever. About 90% of the listings show it
So my LT3 Hakkapeliitta studded have around 10,000 miles at this point and have been flawless. The new studs look brand new even with driving on a lot of dry roads as the snow didn’t start until Christmas Day. We have gotten a few feet since then. They literally pin the Gladiator to the ground while driving on ice making winter driving almost enjoyable. I use offroad+ frequently in both Select trac and 4hi. Never use it on paved highway, but in deeper snow it is the best mode I have discovered so far. It almost feels like a turbo when activated in snow. The combination of higher transmission gearing and less restriction on traction are powerful together.
When do you decide to switch the tires out? Once the average temp hits a certain number?

The 4A mode seems great, but I bought my '19 2nd Gen Raptor because it had a 4A mode and I had nothing but problems with it, the hubs kept grenading themselves and it wouldn't go in to any 4 wheel mode and would make whirring/grinding noises whenever you drove it, even in 2WD. And getting the dealer to track down the problems and fix them properly was always a pain. When I bought my Gladiator, I knew about the new SelecTrac Gladiator but when I saw pictures of the wimpy CVs verses the big beefy knuckles of the standard system and thought back to the problems I had with my Raptor, I just decided to go with the regular system. Yes, it sucks when it's patchy ice/snow with dry pavement, which we get a lot around here, but I just leave it in 2WD and have no problem. The Gladiator has a surprising amount of grip even in 2WD, especially with a little bit of a load in the back.

I don't regret my decision at all. We've had one of the worst winters we've had in 25 years here and the Jeep has been a trooper through everything I've thrown at it, and I don't regret not having a 4A mode.
Apples and oranges for starters, but does suck to hear about your Raptor. But I was actually under the impression the CVs were the 'beefier' setup among the JT options. Happy with my choice either way.
 
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Well with all the looking I found one about 20 miles away. I Was at the dealership at 8:30 and he was following me home in it at like 11:00.
I didn’t want every available option on it and this one didn’t have that but had what I wanted. Worked out great. Im officially a Jeeper now.
 

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But I was actually under the impression the CVs were the 'beefier' setup among the JT options. Happy with my choice either way.
CVs aren't a problem. They are in driveshafts and front axles for years. It's higher maintenance due to the need to keep the boot integrity - a rip and you'd better be servicing the joint. That's the only real downside, IMO.
 

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So what makes the CV joint better than a U-Joint for 4A use?
 

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I put the Selec-Trac to good use today here in Ohio. Where I live, we have a lot of open fields and a lot of wind. So as you drive, you’ll have perfectly clear road, then suddenly the drift gets you. 4A helps with that tremendously. Yes, I could just reach down and shift as needed, but for the extra $695 why?
It also comes in handy when I turn off the mostly clear main road and into my subdivision which is like a cross country skiing course because they never seem to plow it!
That’s where I’m a resident of but I’m here in DE for work so I know what you mean there.
 

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So what makes the CV joint better than a U-Joint for 4A use?
Because of how u-joints are constructed the output shaft is continuously changing speeds versus the input shaft when the joint isn't straight, so each rotation your tires are speeding up and slowing down. How much of a change in speed there is is dictated by how far the wheels are turned. It's made worse by the fact that your two front wheels are rotating at different speeds from each other. When you use U-joints in a front axle it will “crow-hop” in turns while under power.
See the "Equation of Motion" section of this Wikipedia article for more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint.

CV (constant velocity) joints don't suffer from the variation in input vs output speeds that u-joints do, and thus don’t have crow-hop.
 

dcmdon

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The 4A mode seems great, but I bought my '19 2nd Gen Raptor because it had a 4A mode and I had nothing but problems with it, the hubs kept grenading themselves and it wouldn't go in to any 4 wheel mode and would make whirring/grinding noises whenever you drove it, even in 2WD. And getting the dealer to track down the problems and fix them properly was always a pain. When I bought my Gladiator, I knew about the new SelecTrac Gladiator but when I saw pictures of the wimpy CVs verses the big beefy knuckles of the standard system and thought back to the problems I had with my Raptor, I just decided to go with the regular system. Yes, it sucks when it's patchy ice/snow with dry pavement, which we get a lot around here, but I just leave it in 2WD and have no problem. The Gladiator has a surprising amount of grip even in 2WD, especially with a little bit of a load in the back.

I don't regret my decision at all. We've had one of the worst winters we've had in 25 years here and the Jeep has been a trooper through everything I've thrown at it, and I don't regret not having a 4A mode.
That sucks that the Raptor was so much trouble. But it sounds like they Raptor was a fundamentally different system made by a different manufacturer.

Our hubs don't lock and unlock as you probably know.

Also, CVJs are stronger than U Joints. Nothing wimpy about them. Their weakness is that they need to run in a grease bath and depend on their boots. I've torn boots and caught it. I drove home and changed the boot and the CVJ never failed. (This includes taking everything apart, cleaning it thoroughly, regreasing and reassembling) So its reasonable that if you do an inspection after any serious off-roading you would be ok.

If you aren't going to be doing any kind of driving that might tear a boot they are functionally superior. Quieter, smoother, MUCH stronger at steering lock.

U joints fail also. They just fail differently. Often catastrophically. Whereas CVJs almost never fail catastrophically, leaving you on the side of the road or trail. I've broken U Joints on the back of my 66 chevy. It happens. Fortunately they are really easy to change on a driveshaft.
 

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So what makes the CV joint better than a U-Joint for 4A use?
Ever tried to pull into a parking lot in 4H ?
Those joints bind like crazy even on snow.
They can't make sharp turns and having done driveshaft work for years, there are angles they are not supposed to make while under load.
4A may be engaged when making sharper turns. My truck almost slid into another vehicle as I tried to turn into a parking spot and the u-joints bound up. I had to back up and make another try - in 2.
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