Gupton Motors up to 8% below invoice

[aceisback]

So it seems maybe theres been some miscommunication or differences in terms used. I called a few other dealers and asked questions. The short version is dealer cost and invoice mean the same thing. Theres no difference. MSRP is a suggested price above invoice/dealer cost set by Jeep.
so my theory is that for those who are claiming they are selling at X% under invoice means they have already done a dealer markup and are claiming that markup as ‘invoice’ to make it appear they are giving a good deal. But that ‘invoice’ was not the same as their cost. one dealer I called said they do a automatic 3% below MSRP to be attractive. But that was still slightly above their cost, or what ‘invoice’ is suposed to mean. Another dealer I called varries their % below MSRP based on haggling. Both of them said whoever is saying they sell at 6% under ’invoice’ is either lying about what their ’invoice’ term reflects, or is literally paying people to get a vehicle. That one dealer at 3% under MSRP is only claiming to make a thousand bucks or so on the actual sale. this to me makes much more sense.

Now I did not go and look at the price sheet when looking at Jeep online but I did reference the build sheet price index with the Jeep website and the costs for the extras were the same.

so I think that for those who are claiming to sell at under invoice are inflating prices before hand so their under ‘invoice‘ percent savings looks all sort of awesome.

now to take this even further, the finance folks at both places I called (in two different states) stated that available offers from Jeep are based on the region the buyer is from. So for example if I purchased from the other side of the nation they would still have to go off of my home zip code because offers from here may be different than there. And that apparently comes feom Jeep, and is referencing the factory rebate options, not dealer discounts.

so the only way to confirm this would be to compare my order with someone else of the exact same specs to see what the MSRP and cost is. But it seems to me there was a miscommunication and interchange of terminology of what ‘invoice’ means in relation to MSRP, and actual dealer cost. So dealers who are claiming “10%“ under ‘invoice‘ are are pre-inflating their cost so that ‘invoice’ is 10% above actual dealer cost. That way they sound like theyre offering a huge discount.

This is all 100% wrong and it’s been laid out for you several times on how it actually works. I’m thinking you have your mind made up and we can’t convince you of our actual experiences.
But good luck with your search. If you want it bad enough you will find the one for you.

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[chorky]

This is all 100% wrong and it’s been laid out for you several times on how it actually works. I’m thinking you have your mind made up and we can’t convince you of our actual experiences.
But good luck with your search. If you want it bad enough you will find the one for you.

Then it hasnt been explained to me very well. And your saying now that 3 different places have all straight up lied?
ok. Lets try this. Because I am confused. can someone post some actual numbers and documents to show? Including the built MSRP from Jeep, dealer cost, invoice, and final sale price? I need laymans terms apparently Im also gonna call grupton and ask them to explain because between here, and 3 places ai have called something does not add up. Maybe Jeep will pop in here too and shed some light because its pretty confusing

 

[869 KPH]

Then it hasnt been explained to me very well. And your saying now that 3 different places have all straight up lied?
ok. Lets try this. Because I am confused. can someone post some actual numbers and documents to show? Including the built MSRP from Jeep, dealer cost, invoice, and final sale price? I need laymans terms apparently Im also gonna call grupton and ask them to explain because between here, and 3 places ai have called something does not add up. Maybe Jeep will pop in here too and shed some light because its pretty confusing

This tells you the invoice, exactly. You have been lied to repeatedly.

 

[raypla]

Nough said

I reached out, via email, he had me build on the configurator and email him the build. Within 24 hrs he emailed me back with condition based 6, 7 & 8% below invoice pricing. With that in hand, I went to local dealers. They wouldn’t come off msrp, here in the North East no one wants to deal because they know another customer will come through the door and they’ll get what they want.
With Dan being so honest and upfront I placed my order. Couldn’t be happier. He gave me what I asked in trade for my 12’ JK COD and was a pleasure to deal with. My build sheet said $63+K I paid $53k, totally worth it. Upon arrival I was introduced to Renee, she was awesome & helped me through the best dealer experience I’ve every had. Ordered 5/18 picked up 7/20
FYI Gupton is 45 min north of Nashville, I made a long weekend out of it and tore it up. Well worth the 1000 mi trip, so much so, I’ll likely do it again in a few years.

 

[chorky]

This tells you the invoice, exactly. You have been lied to, repeatedly.

So this would be actual MSRP? with no options? Of a Sport S? Just making sure I am reading correctly

 

[chorky]

What does FWP mean?


i went through and added all the numbers in the MSRP to that circled 45,945 and came up with 5,000 OVER what MSRP shows online. So confusing….

 

[TheHeathen]

So it seems maybe theres been some miscommunication or differences in terms used. I called a few other dealers and asked questions. The short version is dealer cost and invoice mean the same thing. Theres no difference. MSRP is a suggested price above invoice/dealer cost set by Jeep.
so my theory is that for those who are claiming they are selling at X% under invoice means they have already done a dealer markup and are claiming that markup as ‘invoice’ to make it appear they are giving a good deal. But that ‘invoice’ was not the same as their cost. one dealer I called said they do a automatic 3% below MSRP to be attractive. But that was still slightly above their cost, or what ‘invoice’ is suposed to mean. Another dealer I called varries their % below MSRP based on haggling. Both of them said whoever is saying they sell at 6% under ’invoice’ is either lying about what their ’invoice’ term reflects, or is literally paying people to get a vehicle. That one dealer at 3% under MSRP is only claiming to make a thousand bucks or so on the actual sale. this to me makes much more sense.

Now I did not go and look at the price sheet when looking at Jeep online but I did reference the build sheet price index with the Jeep website and the costs for the extras were the same.

so I think that for those who are claiming to sell at under invoice are inflating prices before hand so their under ‘invoice‘ percent savings looks all sort of awesome.

now to take this even further, the finance folks at both places I called (in two different states) stated that available offers from Jeep are based on the region the buyer is from. So for example if I purchased from the other side of the nation they would still have to go off of my home zip code because offers from here may be different than there. And that apparently comes feom Jeep, and is referencing the factory rebate options, not dealer discounts.

so the only way to confirm this would be to compare my order with someone else of the exact same specs to see what the MSRP and cost is. But it seems to me there was a miscommunication and interchange of terminology of what ‘invoice’ means in relation to MSRP, and actual dealer cost. So dealers who are claiming “10%“ under ‘invoice‘ are are pre-inflating their cost so that ‘invoice’ is 10% above actual dealer cost. That way they sound like theyre offering a huge discount.

They are intentionally failing to mention the holdback. Invoice is not dealer cost. Gupton’s MSRP prices are not marked up - they agree with Jeep’s website except when Jeep is late in updating their Build & Price tool. For instance, Gupton’s prices were slightly higher on the day of my order, but Jeep changed their website prices by exactly the same amount within 2 days after my order. Gupton’s discount is exactly as has been explained numerous times on this site.

 

[KQL]

I am sorry friend, the dealers you’re speaking to are not telling you the whole truth, but that’s par for the course with most dealers. The fact that invoice is not the same as actual dealer cost is widely known, across all brands of vehicles. You may not have come across that info in the past, but sales at or below invoice were very common pre-Covid shortages, less so now. To think that any dealer would sell a vehicle below what their real cost is, is of course ludicrous. But these deals still happen because invoice is not their true cost.
Invoice costs are known to people outside the dealer network: Gupton is not defining the invoice, it’s the same across all dealers. There’s no way for them to artificially inflate the invoice, just like they can’t inflate the MSRP: it’s a number known independently of the dealer.

 

[chorky]

Well i looked at that build sheet and added up all the options. And must not be using the right numbers because it added up to 5K over MSRP online.

Trying to grt someone from grupton to call me back. But nonetheless I cant buy from them as it would be a 5+ day drive. however I am still trying to understand what is actually going on here. I dont like feeling Im being screwed over.

They are intentionally failing to mention the holdback. Invoice is not dealer cost. Gupton’s MSRP prices are not marked up - they agree with Jeep’s website except when Jeep is late in updating their Build & Price tool. For instance, Gupton’s prices were slightly higher on the day of my order, but Jeep changed their website prices by exactly the same amount within 2 days after my order. Gupton’s discount is exactly as has been explained numerous times on this site.

what is “holdback”?

I am sorry friend, the dealers you’re speaking to are not telling you the whole truth, but that’s par for the course with most dealers. The fact that invoice is not the same as actual dealer cost is widely known, across all brands of vehicles. You may not have come across that info in the past, but sales at or below invoice were very common pre-Covid shortages, less so now. To think that any dealer would sell a vehicle below what their real cost is, is of course ludicrous. But these deals still happen because invoice is not their true cost.
Invoice costs are known to people outside the dealer network: Gupton is not defining the invoice, it’s the same across all dealers. There’s no way for them to artificially inflate the invoice, just like they can’t inflate the MSRP: it’s a number known independently of the dealer.

It is frustrating. And I am just trying to understand. I appreciate everybodys patients. So your saying that ‘invoice’ (which is ‘cost’) is not actually cost?

 

[KQL]

Holdback is a type of discount to the dealer from the factory to help offset the cost of doing business. So the invoice is the published cost of the vehicle for the dealer to buy it from the factory. But the factory doesn’t actually charge that cost, they discount it. The real cost of a vehicle for the dealer is a guarded secret, the invoice amount is not. Would the dealer love to sell you a car for MSRP, of course. Will they often sell it to you at invoice or below, sure if the alternative is no sale at all. Will they sell it to you for their real cost, no, unless there are extreme circumstances and they just want the car gone.

this is why you likely can’t get a sale at invoice for a truck in the lot: if you don’t buy it at MSRP, there are 10 more people behind you willing to. But when ordering, unless I specifically call the dealer to place an order, they’re not going to sell me that truck. So I call Gupton, they order the truck for me, I pay 6% under invoice, but their actual cost is probably 10% under invoice so they make a grand for answering a handful of emails.

 

[KQL]

In your screenshot earlier, looks like you have the MSRP for a Diesel sport S circled. It’s a little hard to use the spreadsheet on my phone. Is that what you built on the website? If so, you may have found another known bug in the system: the online build-it configurator is not always up to date with that month’s pricing.

 

[TheSolarWizard]

Then it hasnt been explained to me very well. And your saying now that 3 different places have all straight up lied?
ok. Lets try this. Because I am confused. can someone post some actual numbers and documents to show? Including the built MSRP from Jeep, dealer cost, invoice, and final sale price? I need laymans terms apparently Im also gonna call grupton and ask them to explain because between here, and 3 places ai have called something does not add up. Maybe Jeep will pop in here too and shed some light because its pretty confusing

my Jeep was 50xxx MSRP and I bought it from Gupton for 43xxx

 

[u-joint]

what is “holdback”?


It is frustrating. And I am just trying to understand. I appreciate everybodys patients. So your saying that ‘invoice’ (which is ‘cost’) is not actually cost?

I answered this in another thread, but it's worth repeating here as I think it might answer your question:

Invoice is a gimmick. You'd think it's the price the dealer pays, but it's not as clear cut as that.

To put it in perspective, dealers still make money when they sell below invoice. The reason for this is called holdbacks and incentives. Each dealer receives (essentially) a kickback when they sell a vehicle, allowing aggressive dealerships to make profit even at or below invoice price.

But, to directly answer your question, "yes" invoice is what the dealer "paid", but don't confuse that with the idea that SALES PRICE - COST (i.e. INVOICE) = GROSS PROFIT, but rather:

SALES PRICE - COST (i.e. INVOICE) + HOLD BACKS + INCENTIVES = GROSS PROFIT.

Also, remember, that dealerships make money in three departments: sales, service, and finance. So the true gross profit calculation will also include everything sold to you by the back office (e.g. financing, extended warranties, service contracts, etc).

 

[chorky]

Ok so i have now called an additional 5 dealers. They ALL say the same thing. Maybe people in my region are just dishonest Or not willing to be truthful. Its quite maddening to be honest

For reference i am not buying off the lot. I already placed an order. That being said all of the places I have called within reasonable distance to me said MSRP, and they wont budge. So I guess it doesnt really matter. But it still bothers me. The price I was quoted is acceptable otherwise I wouldnt have placed an order…. Of course less would be better and easier to afford. Especially now knowing there are ‘secrets’. In fact I probably will file a BbB report at the end of it. And contact Jeep as well. Because this is extremely poor business practice and flat out lies. It is one thing for a person to know they are being charged an unreasonable price. Totally different to purposefully f&$@ someone in secret.

But for the money I would save by going to the other end of the country, I would loose in having to transport it back.

In your screenshot earlier, looks like you have the MSRP for a Diesel sport S circled. It’s a little hard to use the spreadsheet on my phone. Is that what you built on the website? If so, you may have found another known bug in the system: the online build-it configurator is not always up to date with that month’s pricing.

no. Maybe I circled the wrong number. There are 3 of them. I dont know what the numbers “23” “24” and “26” designate…

I answered this in another thread, but it's worth repeating here as I think it might answer your question:

thanks for copying that here. I thought for sure there was a miscommunication of terms. But i called one more place 2 states away and he finally fessed up and said there is a thing called holdbacks after I threw out that term. But his voice suddenly changed and he kinda turned into an a$$. Not to mention basically told me to suck it up or piss off claiming its not worth the hewadache. I had a few words there but it doesnt matter as they would never get my business anyway

I must say. I am looking forward to a gladiator. But i am currently beyoned pissed at the level of deception. Everyone knows steelerships are out to make a profit. Its a business after all. But making profit off of purposful hidden information is bad business and Jeep will be hearing about that, because over 15 dealerships within 3 states of me obviously dont care.

So a heads up to others. Dont get so excited like I did until you really dig deep.

 

[u-joint]

That being said all of the places I have called within reasonable distance to me said MSRP, and they wont budge

Have you told them that you have an FCA control number?

See this thread for how to get one.

It's a guaranteed 1% below invoice, and no dealer worth dealing with should balk at that. It's not haggling, it's a legit incentive that Jeep provides to employees, contractors, and affiliates.

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